Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-7: Combat Roles; Fencer
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
In Massively Multiplayer combat, each profession should have a distinct role. Each role should help define the profession and have a relationship with its abilities in combat. In popular fantasy games, wizards cast ranged spells, warriors are “tanks”, and clerics “heal”. Each archetype has a specific role in combat and they all depend on each other for success. Additionally, each role gives any particular player group a unique feel depending on how many of each type is involved in a group and the role they play when combat gets tough.
In a science-fiction oriented game, those traditional roles aren’t so clear cut. Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession. Many players have stated that they would like to see SWG professions have a more unique feel to them and we would like to know what your thoughts are.
Some basic balance considerations are:
* Ranged and Melee Professions
In SWG, a key thing to consider about each profession and its role in combat is that there are many ranged combat classes and many melee combat classes. Each ranged combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “ranged” abilities that helps distinguish them from other ranged combat professions, and likewise, each melee combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “tanking” or melee abilities that helps distinguish them from other melee professions.
* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities
There are two basic set of combat skills any profession should have. The first are Redundant Abilities. These are abilities that either most or all combat professions posses, in other words, “everyman combat skills”. The second set of combat skills a profession should posses are Unique Abilities. Unique abilities are the abilities that give a profession its unique feel in combat. In other words, it defines the profession and its role in combat.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
What defensive abilities?
What unique abilities?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Your the same guy who wants the Combat Medic's nerfed aren't you? Well anyway here's a few proffesions never in the movies:
Artsin
Droid Engineer
Weaponsmith
Armorsmith
Chef
Tailor
Architect
PS: None of the crafters are in the movies I couldn't think of them all.
Medic
Doctor
Combat Medic
Bio Engineer
PS: None of the medical professions are in the movies.
Brawler
Fencer
Teras Kasi Artist
Pikeman
Swordsmen
PS: None of the brawler professions are in the movies.
Marksman
Pistoleer
Rifleman
Carbineer
Commando
PS: Bounty Hunterand Smuggler are theONLYprofessions so far that's in the movies.
Scout
Ranger
Creature Handler
Squad Leader
PS: None of the scout proffesions are in the movies.
Woah. Look at that. There's a total of 3 proffesions that are in the movies: Jedi, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter
Now do you see?
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
They are fast, agile and strategists. Fencers (IRL) need to apply tactics/strategies to there fights to try and hit there opponent.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Basic combat element? It all depends what you will be doing with the combat revamp. Are you going to rework the 1sec cap? Are professions that are considered harder hitters be slowed down alittle? If so then fencers are fast hitters that can land state effect quickly and efficiently. Since there weapons are light ones, they should have no problem hitting very fast.
What offensive abilities?
Quick hits, state effect and a knockdown. In real life, fencers need to attack quickly and put the pressure on there opponent. Make them take a step back or fall down.
What defensive abilities?
They should be very hard to hit since they are very agile on there feet. This part is great as is since fencers are dodge masters.
What unique abilities?
Maybe a new skill that makes an opponent take a step back. It could be used to push an opponent into a trap or to stop an ennemy fleeing from your friends.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
They should definetaly be the light tanker/state effect giver.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Hmm hard to say since they already do rely on weaponsmiths/armorsmiths (as do all combat proffesions). There ok the way they are. Maybe add a sharpening droid. It keeps your weapons from losing there edge (condition) by sharpening it. Maybe make it so the droid has so many charges before it needs a maintenance itself.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Heavy melee professions should be able to tank bigger critters then fencers. Since fencers are masters of speed they should not be able to tank huge critters because if they got hit it would mean certain death. I think 2handed swordmen/polearms should be the better tanker.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should be able to scare NPC humanoids with there mastery of blades. Show how great they are with there weapons. After all fencers are usually more for the show and not for the damage.
What defines the Fencer role in combat?
Very fast attacks with decent damage and lots of status changing attacks. Also the ability to dodge attacks easily and be generally hard to hit. Definately need strategy and tactics to use this profession to the fullest. We are the same as Pistoleer in many ways.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
To be fast and accurate with their attacks, just not dealing out as much damage as other professions. To be a good tank by not being hit very often.
What offensive abilities?
Dual-wielding swords for offense or defense should definately be included. Maybe an offensive and defensive stance to it? We need a knockdown as well. Also with our quickness should come disabling or killing blows, such as a slice or thrust to the throat, armpits, or to the head even, you arent going to live long or at all if I stick my sword through your head or slice your throat open. Finding and exploiting weak spots in armor is a must as well.
What defensive abilities?
Dual-wielding swords for offense or defense should definately be included. Maybe an offensive and defensive stance to it? We are defensive oriented so we should have many defenses. We tank well by not getting hit very often but we cannot lay down the damage other professions can, we are quick and agile.
What unique abilities?
Dual-wielding swords for offense or defense should definately be included. Maybe an offensive and defensive stance to it? We are defensive oriented so we should have many defenses. Also with our quickness should come disabling or killing blows, such as a slice or thrust to the throat, armpits, or to the head even, you arent going to live long or at all if I stick my sword through your head or slice your throat open. Finding and exploiting weak spots in armor is a must as well.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
We should be able to status attack multiple enemys and have spin attacks as well. We attract attention and keep opponents busy when they are not able to hit us.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
We interact by buying weapons and armor like the other combat professions do.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
We are very hard to hit and hit fast but cannot hit as hard as some of the other professions, a good balance I think.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Dont really have an opinion on this, since I dont participate much.
**Edit to above post
How could/should they interact with other professions?
We interact by buying weapons and armor like the other combat professions do. Also we should interact closely with the Pistoleer profession since we are so alike, stacking dodge does this for us right now. And maybe Fencer/Pistoleer combo special abilities?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
We are very hard to hit and hit fast but cannot hit as hard as some of the other professions, a good balance I think. Also we should interact closely with the Pistoleer profession since we are so alike, stacking dodge does this for us right now. And maybe Fencer/Pistoleer combo special abilities?
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
Accurate melee, called shots, and precision with defense.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Their melee combat should be fairly moderate compared to others. They should have the ability to target opponent weaknesses and finish them off well.
What offensive abilities?
Fencer attacks should have moderate speed and damage but high accuracy. They should be able to (through specials) target whichever HAM bar is weakest, or strike past armor with fine point-control.
What defensive abilities?
Their melee defenses should be pretty average. Their small weapons are nimble but often unable to stop the larger weapons. They should have no ranged defense at all, and instead rely on mobility to survive ranged attacks.
What unique abilities?
The ability to target specific HAM pools, deliver bleeding wounds, or penetrate armor weaknesses should be the fencer's right. What the Rifleman does at range, the Fencer does up close.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The fencer is a versatile tank, with moderate strengths and few weaknesses. They are the support melee fighter, able to defend themselves if necessary but better suited to finishing off weak opponents with a well-placed strike.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Fencers are fairly moderate in fighting other classes. They probably have one advantage and one weakness against each. Against an armored opponent the fencer might have an advantage in choosing their targets and penetrating armor with precise strikes. Of course they are vulnerable to ranged attacks, but have a huge advantage after closing with the shooter.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Fencers should be the versatile tank. They pick up the slack, either helping out another tank, occupying extra opponents, or attacking where needed to finish someone off. Alone they are mediocre, but their ability to fill a variety of purposes makes them a valuable addition.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Finishing off ranged opponents. The fencer should be best-suited to approach a kneeling or prone shooter and deliver a quick and deadly blow to disable them.
Added Question: What is their weakness or shortcoming in combat?
They have no great strengths or weaknesses, making them vulnerable to other melee attackers as well as range.
please DONT call a nerf on us... PLEASE!
Lifesavers wrote:
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Heavy melee professions should be able to tank bigger critters then fencers. Since fencers are masters of speed they should not be able to tank huge critters because if they got hit it would mean certain death. I think 2handed swordmen/polearms should be the better tanker.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should be able to scare NPC humanoids with there mastery of blades. Show how great they are with there weapons. After all fencers are usually more for the show and not for the damage.
Defining a fencer in combat is a complicated task. and one could go many different ways. I believe a fencer should be the "striker". Quick and Accurate, Hes In Hes Out, and target is disabled. A Master Fencer should be able to run through a large grouping of PCs and walk up to the combat medic giving your side of the battle trouble, disable and deathblow and making it out alive...
What basic combat elements should they possess?
They should be able to Use Bleeds,Dizzy,Blind,and Scatter hit. They should be able to target the health pool. They should be able to attack QUICKER then the 1.0 speedcap or Speed cap other meleers higher. We Should be the Fastest.
We Should have the best overall defense of all the melee/ranged combat.
What offensive abilities?
As I said before, Scatter hits, Healthpool, bleeds, dizzy, posturechanges, Our specials should use less HAM. and do lower damage comparitavely. We should be able to do status effects on our opponents and cause them frustration and eventually kill them not through pure brut force but by disableing them to the point where they cannot fight back and we cause them enough pain where they eventually go down.
What defensive abilities?
They should be very good at avoiding damage, with quick wits and agility surpassing other combat professions. We should have high defenses to posture change/kd as fencing is the art of speeed and balance. We Should have the ability to equip a main-gauche. This Main-Gauche would open up the Parry Ability. (See Unique Abilities)
What unique abilities?
We should also Receive Movement Bonuses for being QUICKER on the ground and having a faster burst run. But ONLY on flat terrain. Parry (only with Main-Gauche Equipt) , this would be a special move only executable with a secondary main gauche weapon, this weapon would not do any attack damage or change the way we attack normally. But with the parry skill it will let us deflect the next incoming attack(chance of failure) and then counterattack, now as one would climb up the fencer tree one would have available to them BlindParry/StunParry/DizzyParry/KDParry which would do that status effect if there is a successful parry and successful counterattack. Failure rate on this would be very high at low tiers, but would be progressively better at master level. Until the point where being a master fencer would be very hard to hit.
I also see that maybe this ability could be used with a pistol as well as a one-handed sword...but something else to suggest.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Fencers should be holding the target down, making it easier for the damage dealers to take out the target. They should be tanking but not actually getting hit, they should be distracting the target and dodging and other things to hold teh target at bay.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should be the buyers and consumers, they should need food from chefs. They should be always on the look out for a doctor buffs. The Best Armor, and weaponry, they are part of the using economy. They're credits get spent.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Pistoleers and Fencers should rock the same boat with speed and status effects and health pools they should work great together. They should be dependent on armorsmiths,weaponsmiths,chefs,doctors,medics and any secondary combat assistance professions.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Fencers will be the meelee "sniper". They will see a target acquire the target and be able to make it to the target and disable it. quickly and effectively.
Rezael