Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-4: Combat Roles; Combat Medic
Mouserpg wrote:
Combat Medics are waaay overpowered. I have yet to meet one combat medic who can't take my mind to 1 in less than 5 seconds. If I have full composite on, how is that disease or poison getting through? Also, why do I keep getting incapped over and over until I die? Even when I'm not being hit by anything but disease+poison? That's bull**edit**.
I'm sorry, but what you suggest is actually impossible. The top level of damage for a poison that I've heard of is around 750 using some really rare resources and you likely will not find that kind of a poison but on a very few select servers, and only a few select CMs will have it. So obviously your mind must be at the most, 750. In most cases the top-end poison is more likely to hit around 600.
Now the biggest problem here is that poisons do nothing at all when thrown. It takes 10 (yes, that's right 10) seconds for that first tick to even occur. Most of the time it will take 2 ticks of such a poison to drop someone to 1, or 20 seconds. Not 5. Any combat profession can do far more damage then that in that amount of time. If it's an AoE poison that is being used it will be even lower damage that it's ticking for.
Your armor... well I like to think of "poison" as actually a form of damage dealing nano-bot. "Disease" is a wounding nano-bot. (They have to be bots, or how else would they know the difference between friend and foe and only attack the foe?) Maybe those bots can eath through the seals of that armor in no time flat.
Finally the Posion+Disease thing is kind of a fluke. It's not supposed to happen. The whole reason that poisons were changed so they would not incap is because of the exact situation you describe (also called the "incap dance".) Flamethrowers do the exact same thing, faster. (Diseases only tick once every 40 seconds.) Hopefully this particular situiation is being looked into.
Gnuut wrote:Think about this, there are 13 types of damage that can be incurred in combat. Health Damage, Action Damage, Mind Damage, Poison, Disease, Intimidate, Stun, Dizzy, Blind, Bleeds, Fire, Wounds and Death. A Combat Medic can heal 5 of those while a Doctor can heal 11 of them. Do the math and you will see overall for damage "incurred in combat" a Doctor is a better "combat healer".While we may be able to heal damage more efficiently, we cannot heal ALL combat damage. Some Combat Healer we turned out to be...
I am not so sure about this one.
The common ones are
Health damage
Action damage
Health wound
Action wound
Bleed
Sure Doctor can heal wound better, but CM can heal damage better so they even out.
Then there is
Intimidate
Dizzy
Blind
Stun
Which doctor can cure but CM can't But then again CM can heal mind damage and Doctor can't and if they were to propose a swap for cure for this four against one mind heal, I would not mind at all, and I think many doctors wouldn't mind neither.
Finally there is the
Cure Poison
Cure Disease
Rez
which is balanced by CM's ability to poison & disease. Now I am not sure how many CM would willing to give up their ability to poison & disease in exchange for ability to rez, just as I wouldn't be all too thrilled to give up this three skill as doctor if they were to take poison/disease away from CM.
Zade_Taerin wrote:
I've always been confusedas towhy Combat Medics should consider themselves to be a combat-class and not a support class. This is certainly rehashing the same arguement over and over statingbut your sub-class is support based only, your sisters master class (doctor) is support based only, and half(if not more)-of-your current master class is support based (ranged stims, etc.). But add poison and disease and you've got this ultra complex that you are totally combat oriented. Rubish...
We have 68 schematics for OFFENSIVE MEDICINE vs 8 schematics for DEFENSIVE MEDICINE. That is a far number from half. That alone proves the DEVs intended us to use those schematics. I for one plan to put them to good use. You need to learn a little more about the SWG combat medic.
Just because combat is in your name doesn't imply that you are a combat class only. The entire definition, releveant to real-time history and conventions is that a combat medics armaments were restricted:
Actually last time I checked I paid for my account not you. I play the combat medic to his fullest potential. Restricting the use of poison and disease may be fine in the real world, but this is a game.
"GENEEVA CONVENTION & ARMS: medical personnel were forbidden by the Geneva Convention to carry arms – but they did sometimes carry a Trench Knife M-3 + Scabbard M-8 (to help cut up clothing to reach wounds) . Other cases were also reported ! though this was not permitted … it is however funny to note that Army Regulations governing "Wear of pistol in field: pistol (or revolver) with holster and clips including 21 rounds of ammunition, will be worn by Officers and Warrant Officers in the field . It will NOT be worn by Chaplains ! It WILL be worn by Officers of the Medical Department ONLY when necessary for their personal protection …" so how about this, now ? (there is indeed proof of armed medical personnel, and of medics with captured enemy sidearms) "
This isn't the Army, Geneva convention rules do not apply. If they did, the combat medic class wouldn't even be in the game. I suppose you are in favor of abolishing our class completely? It sounds like you don't want us to use poison or disease. That would essentially cripple me as that is obviously a high percentage of what a combat medic was intended for.
And is to the defining purposes of the Combat Medic:
"Combat Medic:TheInfantry Man's Best Friend: The combat medic was one of the unsung heroes of World War II. He lived with the front line infantrymen and was the first to answer a call for help. He gave first aid to his wounded comrades and helped them out of the line of enemy fire. More often than not, he faced the enemy unarmed and was the foundation of the medical system with hundreds of thousands of surgeons, nurses, scientists, and enlisted medics. "
As it stands, Doctors are overall better combat healers in SWG. When we can heal more than half of all "combat damage" in the game, feel free to preach to me that we are the "unsung heroes on the front line"
Linksabout theCombat Medic:
http://www.bob-west.com/COMBAT-MEDIC.html
http://home.att.net/~steinert/
I could frankly care less what someone who has not a single clue about SWG has to say about what combat medics should be. If this were real life, the combat medics would be locked up forever and the keys thrown away for being the most heinous war criminals in history. I'm quite satisfied just being hunted down by the Imperials for gassing them, their families, their friends, and the b1tch they took to the prom.
I understand that this is the Star Wars Universe but I don't see why you having the word "Combat" in your name should imply you should have the same qualifications as a professional combat class (ie. TKA, Pistoleer, BH, Commando, etc., anybody recall people chucking poisons and disease at the Battle of Hoth or Endor...). The entire defintion of your class, from my understandings of the real-life description of the role, was aid, support, heal without weaponary...
I don't recall seeing Bio Engineers, Carbineers spamming charge shot and fainting from exhaustion, TKAs, etc in any movies. What's your point? The entire definition of the CM class can be defined by what we create, specifically the Crafting Tree. 68 OFFENSIVE MEDICINE schematics vs 8 DEFENSIVE MEDICINE schematics. It tips the scale to the opinion that the DEVs intended us to do some major damage.
But give you some poison and disease and you think you should rule the battlefield. Take it away and you scream what defenses and offenses do you have... well by nature support classes don't imply combat... and you are quite really a support class.
You don't seem to know enough about the SWG Combat Medic to tell me I am a support class. I don't feel I should have to be relegated to "staying barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen". If I so choose I will play a combat medic how I want to play him. I will not let you, define my playstyle just because you feel I should be less than what I am capable.
SURE TO BE FLAMED COMMENT: True fact, the inclusion of CM's in raiding or defending parties has been one of the factors that has discouraged mass PvP on the scale of a GCW. Think of any raid involving the inclusion of one or more CM and you'll agree. Poisons and Diseases are too overpowering, remove DoT and allow poision and disease to create AoE stun/dizzy/etc. effects.
So you are complaining about what? The damage rate? The range? The unhealable mind damage we do? There are several PAs out there that have easily countered CMs by using teamwork and solid tactics. <iX> on Kauri is one such PA. I suggest you come to Kauri so they can teach you a lesson in SWG tactics Swee'pea.
I know the average player blah blah blah nonsense isn't capable of developing tactics strategy or has the discipline to go through all that. But all your nerf cries are based on the capabilities of above average CMs. The average MCM can't hit from farther than 45m, doesn't have a high damage rate, and is poor beyond all hope.This picture shows the average quality resource the avreage player works with to increase his damage. The above average Combat Medics you complain about who have the higher damage rate are lucky enough to get resources at 10x this quality:
http://members.cox.net/arudb/swg/eletongas.jpg
Zero star this post as much as you like.However I'm quite positive that theopinion I've expressed isshared by a greater number then you think. But that doesn't really matter, does it...
Yes thanks you have expressed the majority view forNON-CMs in the game, thanks for that. Too bad it is the most misinformed, misguided and ignorant opinion in the game.....If players like you got their way, this game would be nothing more than an SWG Expansion for THE SIMS.
Learn more about the profession you are trying to destroy.
I've always been confusedas towhy Combat Medics should consider themselves to be a combat-class and not a support class. This is certainly rehashing the same arguement over and over statingbut your sub-class is support based only, your sisters master class (doctor) is support based only, and half(if not more)-of-your current master class is support based (ranged stims, etc.). But add poison and disease and you've got this ultra complex that you are totally combat oriented. Rubish...
Just because combat is in your name doesn't imply that you are a combat class only. The entire definition, releveant to real-time history and conventions is that a combat medics armaments were restricted:
"GENEEVA CONVENTION & ARMS: medical personnel were forbidden by the Geneva Convention to carry arms – but they did sometimes carry a Trench Knife M-3 + Scabbard M-8 (to help cut up clothing to reach wounds) . Other cases were also reported ! though this was not permitted … it is however funny to note that Army Regulations governing "Wear of pistol in field: pistol (or revolver) with holster and clips including 21 rounds of ammunition, will be worn by Officers and Warrant Officers in the field . It will NOT be worn by Chaplains ! It WILL be worn by Officers of the Medical Department ONLY when necessary for their personal protection …" so how about this, now ? (there is indeed proof of armed medical personnel, and of medics with captured enemy sidearms) "
And is to the defining purposes of the Combat Medic:
"Combat Medic:TheInfantry Man's Best Friend: The combat medic was one of the unsung heroes of World War II. He lived with the front line infantrymen and was the first to answer a call for help. He gave first aid to his wounded comrades and helped them out of the line of enemy fire. More often than not, he faced the enemy unarmed and was the foundation of the medical system with hundreds of thousands of surgeons, nurses, scientists, and enlisted medics. "
Linksabout theCombat Medic:
http://www.bob-west.com/COMBAT-MEDIC.html
http://home.att.net/~steinert/
I understand that this is the Star Wars Universe but I don't see why you having the word "Combat" in your name should imply you should have the same qualifications as a professional combat class (ie. TKA, Pistoleer, BH, Commando, etc., anybody recall people chucking poisons and disease at the Battle of Hoth or Endor...). The entire defintion of your class, from my understandings of the real-life description of the role, was aid, support, heal without weaponary...
But give you some poison and disease and you think you should rule the battlefield. Take it away and you scream what defenses and offenses do you have... well by nature support classes don't imply combat... and you are quite really a support class.
SURE TO BE FLAMED COMMENT: True fact, the inclusion of CM's in raiding or defending parties has been one of the factors that has discouraged mass PvP on the scale of a GCW. Think of any raid involving the inclusion of one or more CM and you'll agree. Poisons and Diseases are too overpowering, remove DoT and allow poision and disease to create AoE stun/dizzy/etc. effects.
Zero star this post as much as you like.However I'm quite positive that theopinion I've expressed isshared by a greater number then you think. But that doesn't really matter, does it...
Currently CM is overpowered and anyone who claims it isn't is either a CM themselves or ignorant.
CMs can poison and disease people at over 100m (record distance is 114m from what I've seen) as well as ignore all LOS rules.Allowing CMs to attack people at ranges in which they cannot respond(because no other profession can engage at 100m save CH and at least one can kill a CH's pet) is poor game design. Area poisons should act from a radius from the user, not the target. Granted food has been added to deal with poison/disease resists but from experimentation so far it has never prevented me from getting hit.
I'd also like to mention that the tick of poison is simply too strong; all other DoT attacks were lessened considerably in publish 6 with the exception of CM poison/disease. Make poison act in a similar fashion to all other bleeds; it should do moderate initial damage but the DoT should be much much less. Remember that the whole purpose of DoT is to do moderate amounts of damage spread out over a long period of time, not massive damage in 20 seconds.
Achilles467 wrote:
Currently CM is overpowered and anyone who claims it isn't is either a CM themselves or ignorant.
CMs can poison and disease people at over 100m (record distance is 114m from what I've seen) as well as ignore all LOS rules.Allowing CMs to attack people at ranges in which they cannot respond(because no other profession can engage at 100m save CH and at least one can kill a CH's pet) is poor game design. Area poisons should act from a radius from the user, not the target. Granted food has been added to deal with poison/disease resists but from experimentation so far it has never prevented me from getting hit.
I'd also like to mention that the tick of poison is simply too strong; all other DoT attacks were lessened considerably in publish 6 with the exception of CM poison/disease. Make poison act in a similar fashion to all other bleeds; it should do moderate initial damage but the DoT should be much much less. Remember that the whole purpose of DoT is to do moderate amounts of damage spread out over a long period of time, not massive damage in 20 seconds.
Oh look, i'm a combat medic...deffending my 169 skill point class.
Combat medics can poison from 90m away, AOE stretches to 120m max, we all want that fixed as much as the next person...down to the 64m like everyone else....and I must have missread that, a combat medic can kill a CH pet? lmao...whoa buddy, you couldn't be more wrong (unless it's a CL5 gnort or something)
The food is good, I've seen 25+% poison/disease resist food...that's a 1 in 4 chance to resist poison, regardless of the potnecy of the poison. That's not bad...I'm still waiting for a 1 in 4 chance to not get hit in the head for 1000 damage by a riflemen, too bad I'll never get that now will I?
And our DOT is our only weapon, you can't compare our DOT to any other DOT for that exact reason, we would have nothing to back it up with...riflemen, boo hoo your mind bleed was nerfed, guess you only have adv strafe and headshot 3 to use which can one shot kill people without armor and 2 shot people with armor...oh no, cry me a **edit**ing river, same goes for every other class, no one gave 2 **edit**s about bleeds before this nerf, I had never once been bled in PvP, now all of a sudden everyone's complaining about it and how weak they are all of a sudden, that's just pathetic. Oh and I read of riflemen's bleeds doing over 1900 damage lol, compare that to a combat medic's 500 tick poison lol, now you get a taste of weak DOTs for a change...big deal.
And about the LOS thing...I must be mistaken, I thought EVERYONE was abusing this? I got a SS on my server's forum of a riflemen shooting through walls...it's a bug, everyone can use it.
Also how do you figure our poison should do ANY initial damage? You're NOT being shot like a pistol bleed, you're breathing in GAS...what am I doing? Hitting you in the head with the canister? Not **edit**ing likely. Until your entire class revolves around DOT damage just shut the hell up about our DOTs, you don't know what you'd be missing if you didn't have your other uber specials as back up for the DOT.
Well, normally I'm not one for talking about the number of skill points used for proffesions, spending 169 skill points on ranged stims is pointless.So I offer a challenge to those who say we are a support class. How would you make combat medicsmore of asupport class without going into doctorterritoryif poisons and dieases were nerfed. Make it WORTHWHILE to become a CM without combat skills. If the nerf criers had it there way it would be ranged heals vs the ability to rez, buff, ANDcure status affects while still having the capibility to heal better (on a single target).
This post is to make the nerf criers actually think for once, which is something they don't do enough of. It should be noted I don't want to lose my abilities to poison and disease.
There are bugs in the CM profession such as 64+ M bug andpoison+disease=incap. To be completely fair the commandos incap and cause death much faster then we do with the DoTs that they have. If we exploit with this then so do they.Mind damage is not a bug. Simply bad game mechanics. If we were simply denied mind damage poison most of the nerf calls would go away. All of this should be addressed in the combat revamp.
*yawn* Is tired of constantly explaining this.
"To be completely fair the commandos incap and cause death much faster then we do with the DoTs that they have."
Unless the target is unarmored and unbuffed, not any more.
I'm glad you ask about what to have the CM focus on in exchange for reduction of offensive abilities though, as that actually makes sense and is a reasonable question to ask.
For starters, I would suggestextending their AE healing abilties to being able to cure states as well (although perhaps with a lesser efficency than a doctor could on a single target.) Perhaps add a lesser recucitate as well, where the target would take a significant amount of wounds. With the new HAM system coming perhaps a buff system devoted to increasing the speed at which the bars recovered could be made.
This is just throwing ideas out there, I'd love to see CM's civilly focussing on what they could do with the non-offensive portions of the profession rather than flaming everyone that suggests their offensive capabilities are over the top.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
You say we would be taking away your primary weapon to nerf poisons and diseases - so what? You don't become a medic to fight.