Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-4: Combat Roles; Combat Medic
Raptor2k1 wrote:
"No moron...I became a chemical warfare expert to fight, not to toss **edit**ing stims."
Thank you for proving my point Captain Unconstructive.
What gave you the idea that CM's were supposed to be Chemical Warfare Experts? The tree name? Lord knows how many mis-named trees there are in this game, not to mention that Chemical Warfare Expert is one of the four CM trees, and should by no means be the basis for the entire profession.
Oh you're so right...it's only been that way since beta, we all know the only trees that are really screwed up are the commando trees, and those were titles from beta that made sense then.
But you're absolutetly right moron, getting the title chemical warfare expert must mean I'm not supposed to have anything to do with chemical warfare...gee, why can't the devs get things right? /sarcasm
"But you're absolutetly right moron, getting the title chemical warfare expert must mean I'm not supposed to have anything to do with chemical warfare...gee, why can't the devs get things right? /sarcasm"
Here you go with the senseless flaming again trying to dodge the issue. You still haven't responded to the fact that only one of you skill trees relates to chemical warfare, not the entire profession, and how the only combat tree youhave as a prerequisiterelates to combat support.
And for the record, commando titles aren't the only ones that are screwed up, look at pretty much any combat profession. Mercenery? What does that have to do with usingcarbines? Investigator?
Toxicologist
n : one who studies the nature and effects of poisons and their treatment
I never said that CM's should only be able to heal, I mereley wanted to point out that CM's should have a greater emphasis on healing and curing than on offensive abilities. As of now their offensiveusefulness far outweighs their defensive usefulness, and something just seems wrong with this.
All I stated was that there is no basis for CM's competing with elite combat professions for offensive capability - there should be no contest here.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
"But you're absolutetly right moron, getting the title chemical warfare expert must mean I'm not supposed to have anything to do with chemical warfare...gee, why can't the devs get things right? /sarcasm"
Here you go with the senseless flaming again trying to dodge the issue. You still haven't responded to the fact that only one of you skill trees relates to chemical warfare, not the entire profession, and how the only combat tree youhave as a prerequisiterelates to combat support.
Oh wow, your logic is amazing, so even though we have the title doesn't mean the proffession has anything to do with the title...lmao...dude, until you can prove how we're NOT chemical warfare experts it doesn't matter what you say. And who's to say we're not supporting? I'm tossing a poison to support my group.
And I'm flaming because you are in fact a complete moron...oh uh you have the chemical warfare expert title but i think that's a bug, it has to be, I mean you can toss poisons, that's a bug too /raptor2k1 <the forum idiot>
Raptor2k1 wrote:
Toxicologist
n : one who studies the nature and effects of poisons and their treatment
I never said that CM's should only be able to heal, I mereley wanted to point out that CM's should have a greater emphasis on healing and curing than on offensive abilities. As of now their offensiveusefulness far outweighs their defensive usefulness, and something just seems wrong with this.
All I stated was that there is no basis for CM's competing with elite combat professions for offensive capability - there should be no contest here.
The only class we come remotely close to "competing" damage wise with is pistoleer, EVERY other class outdamages us 10 fold.... But why should we heal? As long as there is a doctor proffession we will just be second rate combat healers.
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
It is twofold. They are real combatants, and good healers. They are a SUPPORT class.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Combat medics need to retain what they are now. They need to be able to poison, and disease. But I think they should add another element, like a ranged area gas attack, that will blind or dizzy,
What offensive abilities?
Combat medics need to poison and disease, yet also need new abilites, as mentioned above. As a few of the titles say: Chemical Warfare Expert, and Toxicologist.
What defensive abilities?
Combat Medics are Combat healers. They heal groups at a time, and the mind pool. The wounds for healing mind needs to be reduced.
What unique abilities?
These are the ranged guys. They need a more of a variety in their ranged offensive capabilites.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
They should be the ultimate in ranged healing and ranged area attacks.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Combat medicines and poisons/diseases should be enhanced by bio engineers. They should also interact with the doctor profession in some way. If someone is a Master Combat Medic/Master Doctor, they should have enhanced healing and poisoning abilities.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
No idea what you mean. The closest thing I can think of is that they have support.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Combat medic is a group's bane. They are biological weapon users, and healers of groups.
"Oh wow, your logic is amazing, so even though we have the title doesn't mean the proffession has anything to do with the title...lmao...dude, until you can prove how we're NOT chemical warfare experts it doesn't matter what you say. And who's to say we're not supporting? I'm tossing a poison to support my group.
And I'm flaming because you are in fact a complete moron...oh uh you have the chemical warfare expert title but i think that's a bug, it has to be, I mean you can toss poisons, that's a bug too /raptor2k1 <the forum idiot>"
Once again, the resort to childish name-calling. You still skirt the issue of chemical warffare offensive capabilitiesmaking up 1/4of your skill trees only. You seem to be uner the impression that the CM profession should revolve around DoT'ing others (if this isn't the case, then I appologize.)
DoT'ing others in itself is support, I'll agree with that; however, it ceases to become support when afew grenade can virtuallyend a battle within minutes (I don't care how rare the resource are, that's not balanced.)
And just to make sure you understand my perspective on this issue:
I never, ever, ever, stated that a CM shoudl have nothing to do with chemicla warfare. I merely pointed out that it currently makes up a much larger portion of what the profession is about then what I think was intended.
"The only class we come remotely close to "competing" damage wise with is pistoleer, EVERY other class outdamages us 10 fold.... But why should we heal? As long as there is a doctor proffession we will just be second rate combat healers. "
This is partially true, I'll give you that. In PvE this is definately the case. The problem arises during PvP where there are only a few resists that check poisons and diseases (and these resists only increase the length of 'ticks' between damage) and how they are not effected by the 75% damage reduction that every other combat class in the game has to deal with. If CM's had to face this as well this conversation wouldn't even be happening. All of this combined with the LoS bugs and AE going through walls serves to provide an imbalance.
You should heal because you're class is rooted in the Medic profession, it's as simple as that. I realize there are issues with the differences between doctors and CM's and I see that is a big problem on clas identity and balance. Don't get me wrong here, I don't want to see CM's become useless - I just think that their focus should not be as heavily offensive as it is right now.
However, if you cannot see that there are ways of differentiating between a CM and a Doctor without making focus on poisons and diseases, then you're not very creative. If you would put as much effort into finding ways to make the profession unique without this incessent focus on the offensive aspects of the class, it would be much further conceptually than it is now.
Wow, I hope someone actually reads all that. 
Raptor2k1 wrote:
"Oh wow, your logic is amazing, so even though we have the title doesn't mean the proffession has anything to do with the title...lmao...dude, until you can prove how we're NOT chemical warfare experts it doesn't matter what you say. And who's to say we're not supporting? I'm tossing a poison to support my group.
And I'm flaming because you are in fact a complete moron...oh uh you have the chemical warfare expert title but i think that's a bug, it has to be, I mean you can toss poisons, that's a bug too /raptor2k1 "
Once again, the resort to childish name-calling. You still skirt the issue of chemical warffare offensive capabilitiesmaking up 1/4of your skill trees only. You seem to be uner the impression that the CM profession should revolve around DoT'ing others (if this isn't the case, then I appologize.)
Here's the deal. 40% of our skill points or more go toward being a combat profession, also of all the schematics we get 68 are for offense, and 8 are toward healing. You cannot use the skill trees as a basis of this argument because frankly our skills for the poisons and the diseases are spread throughout the class. They have the title as healing but in truth they also dictate how our poisons and diseases are used.
We cannot even make te advanced components we need for our healing at any effectiveness, we have to buy them from Doctors. You know what I am talking about Advanced Liquid Suspension, Chemical Dispersal Mechanisms. We can make a very low grade version of them with the expirementation points and skills we attain from the medic profession but when we enter the combat medic profession we cannot make those advanced components anymore. That is enough to make us second rate healers, thus pointing us back to the poisoning machines that we are. So by the nature of the profession we are pointed to offense instead of healing.
DoT'ing others in itself is support, I'll agree with that; however, it ceases to become support when afew grenade can virtuallyend a battle within minutes (I don't care how rare the resource are, that's not balanced.)
We have said countless times that there are ways to keep this from happeining. No one can actually die from a poison, now maybe there is a situation where poison and disease can kill you but that takes a while, it certainly cannot be accomplished in the short period of time you are complaining about. So to actually kill someone, we have to have an accompanied combat profession, or a friend along to finish you off.
Also I don't think we are talking about health and action here. We never are, 99% of the complaints about Combat medic stem from the ability to attack the mind pool. Don't be hindered with your own inability to see past this. What we need is effective mind healing not a nerf to combat medic.
And just to make sure you understand my perspective on this issue:
I never, ever, ever, stated that a CM shoudl have nothing to do with chemicla warfare. I merely pointed out that it currently makes up a much larger portion of what the profession is about then what I think was intended.
This is your opinion, but the devs either by their silence or by coming out and saying it have said that the combat medic poison and disease is balanced. They have actually said as much, so you might not think it was intended to be this way, but the devs seem to disagree. I cannot expect to ever speak for them, I am just passing on the interpretation that I have read.
"The only class we come remotely close to "competing" damage wise with is pistoleer, EVERY other class outdamages us 10 fold.... But why should we heal? As long as there is a doctor proffession we will just be second rate combat healers. "
This is partially true, I'll give you that. In PvE this is definately the case. The problem arises during PvP where there are only a few resists that check poisons and diseases (and these resists only increase the length of 'ticks' between damage) and how they are not effected by the 75% damage reduction that every other combat class in the game has to deal with. If CM's had to face this as well this conversation wouldn't even be happening. All of this combined with the LoS bugs and AE going through walls serves to provide an imbalance.
It could be argued that we already suffer a 75% penatly in PvP the thing is we also suffer the penalty in PvE. When you consider the damage output of a CM we are already way below almost every other class. The thing about pistoleer not being able to outdamage us is bunk. My wife is a pistoleer and she can double my damage output even with a single target poison.
Now the argument is that we can do AoE and outdamage everyone. Yep. You're right. We are not saying there couldn't be more effective counters to the CM but there does not need to be a nerf to the class.
You should heal because you're class is rooted in the Medic profession, it's as simple as that. I realize there are issues with the differences between doctors and CM's and I see that is a big problem on clas identity and balance. Don't get me wrong here, I don't want to see CM's become useless - I just think that their focus should not be as heavily offensive as it is right now.
We do heal, we are not as effective as doctors but we have our place in the healing spectrum. We also have our place in the combat perspective as well whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.
However, if you cannot see that there are ways of differentiating between a CM and a Doctor without making focus on poisons and diseases, then you're not very creative. If you would put as much effort into finding ways to make the profession unique without this incessent focus on the offensive aspects of the class, it would be much further conceptually than it is now.
You have not offered any opinions to make us different? With the game mechanics in place what can CMs do that would be unique in your eyes? We already think we are unique, we throw poisons and diseases, why should we come up with something "new" for a profession that already serves a vital role in support and combat? Oh I have heard what others have said, AoE poison cures, AoE disease cures, dragging people on the battlefield, increased speed to get to people quicker, the fact is that outside of the Area of Effect cures, we already have those things.
Wow, I hope someone actually reads all that.
Actually I did read all that, I read almost every post that every person posts on the combat medic profession, I have heard nothing new from you that has not been spouted by 99% of the other people that want the profession nerfed. People claim that the CM community does not want anything changed and that is simply not true, we have put in numerous ideas of things that could lend balance to the profession. We as a community have been harping on the 64+ attacks as well as line if site and other flavors of discontent.
CMs have a place in combat, there needs to be more effective counters for us, mainly in the form of some added resist bonuses and AoE cures, I myself would rather see a non-repoison timer to a certain type of poison for a while. There are resist bonus foods in the chef line now, let's see how those work before we call for more nerfs to a profession.
I dont think CMs need to be nerfed. after allposion gases have always been a deadly weapon of war. however there are 2 ways to "balance" the game play.
1) create gas maks that will reduce the damage done by poison or disease by 50-80%. and they should wear insted of helmet. so a player has the choice of having more head gear protection or have a gas mask to prevent being hit by posions.
2) another way is to give docters area poison/disease heal. this way in order to fight a CM you need to have its counter porfession docter in your squad. this will also bring docters more into use in battles.
combat medics dont need to be nerfed but to be balanced with other porfessions. and i think the most common way of doing is option 1, having gas masks added to the game.