Development Cycle Archive

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Thunderheart wrote:

Having multiple faction soldiers is something that is planned. Balance is going to be tricky, but it is planned. For much of the first part of the week, Ill be focused on posting In Concept stuff and attended to the DE/DH issues...

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i'm confused, it's possible to balance for multiple faction soldiers, but too hard to balance for droid certs?

If we "earned" it (faction pets) then why is it not our to trade as we please. Is this not a free market?

With regards to the ATST being compared to CH pets that is a rouse...

Damagecannot be healed.

Wounds cannot be healed.

Cannot be traded.

Can only have 1 out.

Are extrordinarily vulnerable to fire.

And can be dizzied, KD'd, etc which makes no sense in an attack vehicle.

Cannot be ridden in.

It is absurd to compare this to a CH pet, in theory or in practice. Will a ATAT be dizzied too... How about a Death Star? Oh wait, Icant trade either to my direct faction members anyway...

How about we actually have a use for faction rank here folks.

Any word on when the new publish will be pushed to Test? We've been in a holding pattern for quite a while now and we're getting a little anxious ...

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Grave_Droid wrote:
First of all i think this is a great game and i congragulate all of you...but there is one issue that i cant understand why you havnt fixed it..

WOOKIEE ARMOR....please padded will do i dont mind

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Screw him... he speaks for himself.

I want real armor. I want armor to compete with every other race. I am tired of taking 100% damage. I do not want a paltry feel good toss away such as the september patch where you gave us the whoppin 10 point bonus to mind. I want ARMOR.. Let grave have his 20% BS padding. I want ARMOR!

You indignant reprobates need to learn to sit back and shut your mouths every once in a while. This game is the vision of the developers, and they can add whatever they feel best facilitates the execution of that vision. They have two specific issues which are the root of many of the problems with this game. The first issue is a database problem, and we all know that adding several objects that everyone "must have" is just going to bog the game down even further. Mounts, player cities, vehicles, vendors, pets, homes ... these items should not be owned by every player and yet they are. So we'll just have to deal with the lag because no one wants to go without their toys that they feel they must own, even if they will have have a practical use to the player. Besides that first point, the second point the developers have made is the difficulty of the game. Now it has been said that since droids cannot do anything other than what their master commands, anyone should and would own the new high level droids under a preferred system. The problem with that is that you don't have to work hard at anything to get powerful. That was the initial problem with probots, and it was a problem with AT-STs, so therefore allowing everyone to purchase any level droid would just bring back old problems that we have already learned will not work out for the better. So scratch that idea off. The second notion is that only Droid Engineers would get to control the higher level droids. The problem with that is that every profession has its main perks based off of the prerequisites. DE is purely an Artisan profession, and their two main perksare to both create droids that their customers or themselves may find a use for AND to make money on said sales. They are creators, not destroyers. So that leaves the cert system that has been suggested. That elite combat professions would be able to put combat droids into use. My problem with this is that the training in those elite professions gains them experience in whatever weapon they are training, and so they are already powerful enough when they reach the top of their chosen profession to deal enough damage. So who gets the droids then? You don't want to give them to someone who has done nothing. You don't want to give droids to professions that are designed to make loads of money, because a profession is designed to do one thing, be it create or destroy or heal or entertain. And you have to be careful when giving combat droids out to only the most powerful professions, because then it will increase the power of those professions and you don't want to give people the ability to solo everything in the game. So I say, in conclusion, allow the developers to think up a skill line for controlling droids, and if they cannot implement it in a fun and engaging manner, then implement it in a form so that those who work for them long enough can have them. I bid you adeau.

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Thunderheart wrote:

Having multiple faction soldiers is something that is planned. Balance is going to be tricky, but it is planned. For much of the first part of the week, Ill be focused on posting In Concept stuff and attended to the DE/DH issues...

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Sounds like a foregone conclusion, Thunderheart, and that greatly saddens me about the future direction of the game. What I would suggest is to take the wonderful work Drashk has done on droid certs and have the Devsstart from that framework to create a balanced system. The DEs there have mostly come to a consensus of what they wish for their profession and the fact that they want EVERYONE to have access to droids. They have told you once that they do NOT want to be a COMBAT class/CH equivalent and more recently that they do not want a pure DH class.

They have told you what they want in clear terms and how they would envision its implementation. It should now be the job of the Devs to create such a system within that framework that is fair, balanced and not overpowering for anyone.

Worried that there would be uber templates using these droids? Tweak the droid levels or requirements - simple as that.....the droids that they are talking about are not "uber" but mid-level ones at best, remember.

I can tell you that the "Droid Invasion" will be nothing more than a trickle if either of the ideas thus far put forth by the Devs (DH class or DE-only use of combat droids) is implemented. DEs and the overwhelming majority of players want droids for the masses. Is it really that hard for the Devs to figure out a way to do this?

How about this for droids?

Everyone can use up to CL10 droids (as is now)

Masters of combat professions get a cert for ONE type of droid, special to their profession, but only adds up to maybe CL15? CL20? where ever it needs to stop to be reasonable, but higher than the "average joe"

Allow a DH profession, and allow them to handle droids, within the same sort of structure that the CH's currently work within. Either that, or give this to the DE's, if they're going to be that upset about the creation of a DH class.

Oh, and those of you who think controling a bunch of droids in combat would be easy, I have to disagree. even with the best AI, you'd still have to be very careful about the types of commands you gave, and numerous other things that are just 'different" from handling creatures, or people even.

I understand the difficulties in balancing the game and 'trying' to make everyone happy having played a Magician in EQ from 99-01, as it went through the same issues I am seeing now.

How about just adding the droid certifications to a specific profession skill where applicable. An example would be Bounty Hunter Investigation would give a specific BH combat droid certification for each of the four levels of the skill tree. Same could be found in each of the other professions (Comando, Combat Medic, etc.). I think that will solve the combat balancing issue as each would get one and since you are about to address 'balancing' soon anyway here is your opportunity to 'kill two birds', as you can balance by giving more powerfull droid to those professions that are weak now.

Another question - could you please respond with the Devs outlook on Wookies and Armor. This is a major issue and just hearing 'we are looking into it' would be good enough. I am assuming it will be addressed when PVP balancing issues are the addressed.

thanks

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nerfdespiser wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

Having multiple faction soldiers is something that is planned. Balance is going to be tricky, but it is planned. For much of the first part of the week, Ill be focused on posting In Concept stuff and attended to the DE/DH issues...

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So, I take it by that sentence that you intend to completely ignore the tons and tons of players and DE's that are completely against the droid handler profession a.k.a. the worst idea ever to come out of SOE?

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How did you come to that conclusions? "Attending to the DE/DH issues" could just as easily mean "figuring out what to do instead of DH."

I love conspiracy theorists.

This is officially my most unconstructive post. Well, top 5 maybe.

AAAARGH! This is just not this hard folks.

Forget certifications...forget different classes...look to the friggen inspiration for the game...you know Star Wars.

Now let me get a little bit thoughtful but I had to vent a bit of frustration. In Star Wars one simple truth is that using Droids takes no skill...anyone can use them...that is why they are so great. A princess and sentator can use them just as well as a farm boy from some backwater planet. That is the point.

Now normally I would say that game mechanics always can and do get in the way and because this is a game that those mechanics must always be logically balanced. I understand that and totally accept it. That being said I dont see how it applies here. Lets look at some comparisons and some facts.

- Creature Handlers are now the current "sellers" of "tanks" to the general community.

- Creature Handler is a combat profession not a crafting profession hence there is no need to protect this market...especially considering that CH's also get mounts and that market.

- Droid Engineer IS a crafting profession and thus needs a renewable market available for them to sell their wares.

- Creature Handler "non-ch" creatures are level 10's so why can we not move Droids up to level 15. Again we have already established at the very least droid engineers have the priority in this as they are a crafting profession. If the reason is that all creatures, droids, and faction perks are handled by the same code...change that...and it would seem odd if it was since the ATST is not a level 10 "pet"

- Lets all realize we are focusing on Combat Droids right now and not the overall issue. For discussion purposes lets say the battledroids from Episode 1 are level 10 droids that are cheap to make but fairly weak. The repeater blaster droids from Episode 2 are more heavily armoured and dangerous (level 15) but much more expensive. Allow some movement on those levels by the crafter with direct relation to quaility of materials and such.

- We all want Droidekars...but make them hard. Can someone say RIS armour hard? I knew you could.

- Finally and most importantly lets realize that while combat droids have been on the forefront of most discussions lets remember the key to all of this is making all the droids work with real purposes in mind. Protoclol Droids, Surgery Droids, Repair Droids, Mouse Droids, LIfter Droids, etc etc make them have a purpose. If only combat droids work then all you have done is window dressing...short sighted window dressing.

The fact of the matter is this...everyone should be able to use droids. Two or three ata time (the movies show two out with Lukeand others ). You want to limit combat droids with regards to how much are present in combat fine. You can only have one out unless you find (a la loot) a command module which allows more up to three lets say. This even goes with the continuity as the yellow striped combat droids in Episode One do command. You can have two levels of command modules (one red and one yellow), the red one allows one extra droid the yellow two extra droids (speaking combat only) so again stop thinking inside the box folks (devs and community alike).

Think outside the box...see the whole picture...lets make a difference not simply a change.

Btw I am a Bounty Hunter....I just think Droids are ultimately important to this game and it's Star Wars "feel".

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DeQuosaek wrote:

I'll try again...

1.) Backpack sort order does not save at all, ever. I would like to be able to open my pack full of resources and have them sorted alphabetically and by type without having to resort them each time I open them. Either save the sort order, or have an option in the game options stating which sort order you would like for ALL containers in the game. Something like: "Sort by x first and then x" would be sufficient.

2.) The column width for the bazaar only saves for one login. I like the way it's customizable, but it's a pain to resize it every login.

3.) Graphics options, specifically Show Detail World Objects &Fade Objects, only save for the duration of one login. More specifically, Show Detail World objects is switched to off and Fade Objects is switched to on. Please have it save what I select.

4.) The ALT key cannot be unbound from Toggle Mouse Mode. I like to use ALT for other keymapping. It's great to use formacros and other keymapping. The workaround right now is to remap the Toggle Mouse Mode key to something else (like the Windows key) and just use the right ALT key for mapping other shortcuts since the left ALT key will still be mapped to the Toggle Mouse Mode no matter what you do. It wasn't like this months ago.

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/disguiseVoice

I totally agree with you, man. But when's the last time you heard of UI functions being worked on? They are a huge part of the game that affects all players, but everyone is much more concerned with issues that affectfewer people. Just chill out and watch the war between Wookiee armor and how to handle droids.

Fix basic UI problems:

1) Trade window. Still extremely difficult and annoying to use. Getting it to start is a pain, /trade often doesn't work. Once initiated, cancels constantly for inexplicable reasons.

2) The 2x bug. For months, we've had to execute commands twice to get things to work: travel droids, calling/storing pets, generating vehicles. It seems like no big thing perhaps, but that time adds up... and I can't tell you how many times I've missed a shuttle trying to get the droid to accept my ticket due to this bug. It results in 9 minutes of cursing... that's not fun.

3) Bazaar and inventory sorting/preferences. SAVE this data beyond one login. Who has time to go back and resize and resort everything? Beyond that, the display for the bazaar has too many columns, even with the window fullscreen it can be impossible to read.

4) We still need improvements to the targeting system. When PvPing, selecting teammates for healing and enemies for fighting and toggling between can be extremely difficult, especially with lag.

Fix basic physics/visual problems:

1) NPCs, PCs, buildings... they still float in the wrong plain very often.

2) Players still disappear when grouped. Run 200m away and return to the scene, and perhaps your group can now see you. Often you then can't see another group member. Repeat.

3) Sit down in a chair. Inevitably, you'll do the Jedi Butt Slide into midair. Stand up, and you'll be hunched over for the first 100 paces with your arms flapping behind you.

4) Rubberbanding/warping from speeders. Especially combined with auto-store, this is a major pain.

I had a thought, and I hope it doesn't get ignored. I'll probably post this in the DE forum too, to see what they think.

So, one of my guildmates (Sesshoumaru) and I were talking about the proposed DH class, and we came up with some conclusions:

1. It doesn't make sense, as there is no real precedent for DH's in the Star Wars universe. Everyone seems to be able to use a droid.

2. HOWEVER, there is a need for some kind of droid handlind skills, as there is a need for better droids in the game.

3. It DOES NOT make sense to give said skill to DE's as there is no in-game precedent for this. If BE's can't control the pets they make, DE's shouldn't be able to handle the awesome droids THEY make. Besides, knowing how to make something and knowing how to use that same thing are NOT the same thing. They're related, yes, but one does not imply the other. I can make a computer, but I don't know how to code. That's the difference.

NOW, those who know Star Wars well realize that most droids act quite a bit like people. They respond to verbal commands, and can interpret complex commands in much the same way that a person can. They are, in effect, machines with incredibly sophisticated AI's.

Going on that premise, that droids are really a lot like people, then it would make sense that the only person who could handle more and complex droids would be a classt that can handle many people.

In other words, I propose that you give Squad Leaders a droid handling skill.

This makes sense, as droids act a lot like people, and I'm CERTAIN that it would please a great many Squad Leaders, as they'd be able to actually do solo work now.

That's just my little suggestion. I honestly don't want to see a DH class, and I don't think anyone else does either. BUT, I want to see better droids. Since you can't just let anyone use any droid, there needs to be either some droid handling skill or some sort of droid certification. If you go with a handling skill, it'd be best to add it to Squad Leader. If you go with certification, you could, theoretically, add it to many classes.

That's my suggestion. I hope it doesn't get ignored.