Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Weekly Rountdable Discussion (Week Ending 1-25-04)
TH,
Thanks for keeping us updated on this info. However, a number of the DEs are still curious as to how you came to the conclusion that they wanted a DH profession in the first place? Was it just because they said that they didn't want DEs to be a combat profession, and you just assumed the opposite of that was the creation of a DH profession? Or was it something else?
I certainly hope you can appreciate why so many of them are upset. It's not simply because you said that the devs were considering a DH profession, it was more because you said that's what "they" wanted.
TH, Im sure we are all curious to know if this new system of communication is working as intendid or not? Its great that you actually read the boards, but come on man communication is a two way street!
Does SOE intend to ACTIVILY communicate with us or is the last 2 weeks what we can truly expect from you guys?
VolatileMan
TH--
You screwed the pooch on that one. I know you meant to say something like "because DE's want combat droids more powerful than CL10 andto keep game balance we will be creating the Droid Handler class to use these uber-combat droids". That was ineffective communication, plain and simple.
Now, to respond to the request you made to Drassk for a workable droid certification process, I suggest the following:
Sub CL10 droids: Everyone can use them, non-combat droids are automatically CL1 (A 10k HAM MSE droid that runs from fights is not a game balance altering droid)
For over CL10 droids AND creatures I suggest this:
1) The new droid certifications go into the Squad Leader tree and a Master Squad leader can handle the same level as a Master CH, with the same progressions.
Justification: THese are "Military level" droids, Squad leaders are the most militaristic profession and they are "used" to commanding large groups.
2) For both BE and DE add cerifications that allow them to deal with CL(Max CL of CH or SL/2) creatures and droids respectively. THis occurs with no increase in the number of creatures/droids that they can have out.
Justification: THey deal with these creatures on a daily basis in a controlled environment, this allows them to exercise better control with these beings than an inexperienced person might.
3) This is unrelated to the first two changes and would probably be harder to implement:
If a CL 50 droid is given to a SL (Or whomever has the certification) it works fine, however if it is traded to a DE it's stats adjust downward to CL 25. If it is traded back its stats go up, if it is traded to someone with out any skill, it becomes a CL10 creature.
Justification: DEs and SLs know the strengths and weaknesses of the droids and are able to command them well enough to limit them thus giving them the perception of having more effective statistics in combat.
Thought some of you might like to see this: From GnomeAd on the DE forums:
Well folks, as those of you who have followed the boards for the last week or so might know, the other day we were all the Entertainer Correspondent for a few minutes. While this was going on, I was able to get into the PC board and read the following message. After reading it, I had a short PM discussion with Drashk and I held back on the info at his request. I was going to leave it at that, but after THs post today, I think you all deserve to read the relevant portions.
Drashk wrote:
The Droid Engineer Community is getting a little restless about the Droid Invasion update that was slated for last week. Is there anything that I can do to help you speed up the process of posting this update, or is there any information that I can pass along that might placate them for the time being?
I'm in the process of writting up a post about the current state of the Droid Engineering profession and the direction that the community would like to see it headed. Something that can really help me achieve this goal is some information. I know that you can't disclose certain information to the community as a whole, but as correspondents, shouldn't we be given more information as to the future of our profession, so that we can at least have some time to create a game plan of how to handle the news when it is ready for release. I know that the development process is always in motion, but some kind of forewarning would be nice.
The information that I am requesting is...
Are Droid Engineers going to be turned into robo-CHs, even though the vast majority, 75% or greater, of the community is against this idea?
Is there going to be a cert system developed for everyone to use higher end combat droids
If so, will this system be level based, as the case of CH, or will it be a per droid issue? (Any word on this will help me out a lot, with in regards to offering a few suggestions with a cert type system.)
Just having these two questions answered will help me out, in what I'm trying to do, tremendously.
Once again, are there any questions or concerns that the DEV team would like answered?
TH responded:
Very astute Questions Drashk.
1. No. I told the devs and the devs heard.
2. well, for the time being, there will be no "high end" droids.
It will be the same as Pets - no handling over LvL 10.
UNLESS, I can get good feedback from you folks on how to implement them.
We WANT Droideka's in the game, but since they arent going on the DE tree, they have to go in some Skill tree that makes sense. Players MUST spend points and skill boxes to get this "Droid Handling" ability.
The devs intend on adding a "Droid Handler" profession (which would work like Creature Handlers) but thats a "next phase" thing and isn't going to be considered until Summertime (July-ish).
So in summary, if we were going to add Droidekas (above level 10), which skill trees would/should get the certs?
Drashk responded:
A Droid Handler Profession will be another issue that will really tick off about 85% of the DE community. I can see the need for balancing, but Droids really are supposed to be usable by all. I'll be making a suggestion for a type of Droid Cert system that is based on each profession. The concept is, if you have a certain skill level in X profession and combine it with a certain skill level Y profession you will have access to Z droid. This would allow each and every profession to have access to a better droid, but only the right combonation of skills would allow you to have access to the very best type of droids.
This would be a great type of balancing act, since it would give content to each profession, but would also allow for professions, such as Bounty Hunters, to have higher end combat droids that are more than paid for by their skill point usage. When I say high end droids, I'm refering to CL30 as an upper rafter of. I'll get to work on drawing up this idea and hope to have it sometime this week for everyone to look at and pass along.
BTW, you didn't comment on the first part of the post.
TH replied:
I answer what I can, when I can. If all I have is a non-answer then I don't waste our time.
Basically, in this publish, DE's are getting a bunch of fixes and in the next publish, there will be combat modules and some other things. The jist is going to be a tight in development post and if there are any insane problems, we'll fix them.
I plan on writing it in the first half of this week. Patch notes and Correspondent items come first...
So, there it is in all it's glory. Drashk clearly told him this wasn't what we wanted. I guess TH with the correspondents is like me with my wife, I have selective hearing sometimes.
I would llike to see two seperate threads. One for people who are happy with these proposed ideas and one for people that are unhappy with them. I think that would give the information presented in these threadsa much clearer definition. The devs and we could clearly see who was for and against these propositions, and we could get a better grasp of where the community stands. Although clearly the vast majority here are not at all happy with the things presented in this thread.
10 credits says we see a droid handler profession come out in a few months. 
My addition to this weeks rountable:
Additions to Player Cities:
Bridges: Allow for the placement of bridges to span mountain passes and/or rivers.
News Terminals: Add some character and history to player cities by being able to place News Terminals around the city. A printing press (name it something futuristic)terminal can be placed in the city hall which manages the news terminals throughout the city. If a playercomes in from somewhere else, they can get the gist of what goes on by reading the latest dispatch.
Books & Datapads: I've read a bit of complaining that only combat characters can pickup certain objects like holo's, experimental tapes, new schematics, etc off of dead NPC drops. Here is the other solution. Each player house will come with a bookcase that slowly updates overtime in books and datapads. Most of the info is just interesting stuff from history of the Star Wars universe, but sometimes the owner of the house will find a schematic or something like that.
Make DE a little bit more happy: I'm not going to step into the DE/DH thing, but if you make the city buildings start to decay without the upkeep of either artisans (slow-fix), architects (medium-fix), specialized droids (fast-fix) or the buildings will eventually go poof.
For instance, if a grouping of professions gets "Droid Certifications", then you instantly get a migration of people to that profession to get the combat advantages. The advantage is simply doubling your combat balance. For instance, If Im a Carbineer and I have a droid, I've essentially doubled my combat abilities. So If I group with someone else who has access to high level droids, 2 players = 4, 4 players = 8 and so on.
Well, if the certs were poorly and hastily designed, you bet these would be problems, but otherwise this is an extraordinarily shallow and flippant response.
If certification is evenly spread across existing elite combat classes, then no, there isn't going to be any "migration" to a specific professions. The people in those classes were already the people trying to maximize combat skills.
The whole concept of "doubling" combat skills is just a made-up number, I don't know how anybody could take that seriously. The actual percentage of firepower that a higher-level droid would add to a Master in an elite combat class is highly variable, and since you're still in the design phase, it is by no means a significant problem. It's a designfactor, but only one of many. Dismissing the whole concept with such tenuous claims only damages credibility in this area. Please don't do it any more.
Hey TH, I read at your first part of this post you talk about faction pets. I understand the need to make them work on only fac items, NPC or overt players. But the one out at once is lame. It has been mentioned before, but are you guys going to work on making a higher rank allow more Faction pets out at once? Because other then the ATST, you will notice, no one uses troops anymore, since that change was made. You stated they are supposed to be a perk, but they are not, when I can oly pull out one.
Last night would be a perfect example. I was in coronet, overt. I got intel that some, 3, Imps were overt. So I tracked them down to the starport. Even though I knew I was toast, not being able to find any other willing and able Rebs to go overt with me, I still attacked. Now I'm only Master SGT, but say if I was something higher, it would have been cool if I would be able to pull out four or five fac pet soldiers. Then maybe it would have been a bit more equal, even if they are only fac pets.
Squidwalker wrote:
Hey TH, I read at your first part of this post you talk about faction pets. I understand the need to make them work on only fac items, NPC or overt players. But the one out at once is lame. It has been mentioned before, but are you guys going to work on making a higher rank allow more Faction pets out at once? Because other then the ATST, you will notice, no one uses troops anymore, since that change was made. You stated they are supposed to be a perk, but they are not, when I can oly pull out one.
Last night would be a perfect example. I was in coronet, overt. I got intel that some, 3, Imps were overt. So I tracked them down to the starport. Even though I knew I was toast, not being able to find any other willing and able Rebs to go overt with me, I still attacked. Now I'm only Master SGT, but say if I was something higher, it would have been cool if I would be able to pull out four or five fac pet soldiers. Then maybe it would have been a bit more equal, even if they are only fac pets.
Having multiple faction soldiers is something that is planned. Balance is going to be tricky, but it is planned. For much of the first part of the week, Ill be focused on posting In Concept stuff and attended to the DE/DH issues...
So, I take it by that sentence that you intend to completely ignore the tons and tons of players and DE's that are completely against the droid handler profession a.k.a. the worst idea ever to come out of SOE?
Thunderheart wrote:
Having multiple faction soldiers is something that is planned. Balance is going to be tricky, but it is planned. For much of the first part of the week, Ill be focused on posting In Concept stuff and attended to the DE/DH issues...