Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
kayxfour
Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:23 am
#209
Nuckman wrote:
Make us Master Brawler
and add 4 more trees past TKM (new title for Current TKM changed to TK Artist)that already exists
Thats asking for a new TKA profession, the current one handles it all
Make the trees all Unarmed XP (if you really want to make it worth while make the XP combat) I know I wouldnt mind
Fine how it is, 3 unarmed and 1 combat
Give us a speed penalty when we use a VK
I do agree that the speed needs toned down just a bit, although really TKA should be faster than most other professions
4 More trees would give the opportunity to make mediate regen faster (currently same as sitting)
and FOW timer lower and Power Boost better ( at least longer)
Those attributes are already in excellent shape, although a *slight* regen boost would be good
Or id rather see a quick Power Boost at 75% that we can do in battle
Throws out the idea of powerboost entirely, meditiation and focusing on ones mental energies can't be done while fighting, makes zero sense
Make the new TKM weapon gloves with brass knucks or put spikes on it, another idea,
Would make craftable spikes that act as a power up for boots.
Interesting idea, although melee powerups already exist though I dont think they work as well as they should for VK's
Real TKM leave your Ideas i dont think any of this would make us overpowered
4 new trees no, already have a full profession
2 for Meditate no, already have awesome meditation
1 for Sencing Force being USED not inactive jedi no mission terminal but make us track down a TKM NPC that must give us permission to "warn" the Jedi interesting but no, all TK sensing is focused on internal, nothing external like that
1 that adds a few more moves with MINIMAL attack mods- maybe +15 for spd and damage in the whole tree another +10 at master no, you guys have plenty of speed and damage mods
And make the XP needed like the BH weapon lines with 2 450k Boxes needed
groovysplat101
Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:53 am
#210
OK. The problem with PvP combat doesn't just lie with the TEF. The TEF problem can be sorted with common sense. If the player does anything to mark himself down as an enemy, he gets a TEF. If he's standing with the enemy, or attacking with the enemy, he gets a TEF. If he is hiding, (perhaps with a /hide command), you don't know he's there, and he doesn't get marked down as an attacker.
The problem with PvP is the Radar. Lets face it, the radar destroys ambushes. You can see exactly where all of the blue dots are. CMs can throw poison through walls to take out people in turrets. Snipers get rumbled...you can work out exactly where they are. You can't hide troops effectively to mount an ambush. That sucks, to be honest.
There should be some means of getting around the radar. First off, if you /hide, or something, you don't show up on radar. Like aiming with a pistol, you get a separate hide bonus for when you're standing still, and when you're moving. Like with being aimed at, when you're prone, you're harder to see. If you kneel, or stand up, it puts a penalty on /hide, and you might become visible. If you move about, even while prone, there is a chance you might make yourself obvious. You get a hide penalty. On the flip-side, people have spot values. The higher their spot value, the more likely they are to spot you. Some professions would get bonuses to this...scouts, perhaps. Possibly riflemen as part of the sniper and countersniper skills, and maybe commandos. Then, you make it so walls are solid, both to poison, and to radar. If someone is inside, behind a wall, or in a ditch, they get a massive hide bonus. Behind a low wall would give a small bonus, behind a house would give a very large one. Speaking would give a person away. A very vigilant person might hear them breathing or something, and be able to "spot" them, even through walls. If you're on top of a building, your shielded by the building, and harder to spot. Darkness boosts hide bonuses. Etc. If you do something to draw attention to yourself, like firing a weapon, your hide bonus drops. Something like that should be relatively easy to calculate (just like aiming), and it would make PvP a lot more tactical. Right now, people are fighting by radar...you head for the blue dots. That's stupid. TEF can stay as it is, but if you /hide, you don't show up on a radar, regardless of your covert/overt/tef status.
About grouping with overt people. The concept of "overt" isn't all that realistic, to be honest. If you're overt, and wearing stormtrooper armour, then yeah, everyone can tell. Same with an Imperial uniform. But if you're overt, but wearing civilian clothing, you wouldn't appear overt. You shouldn't have to turn overt to put on stormie armour...you should turn overt because you did. If you want to turn overt, then perhaps give us an object with the rebel or imperial symbol on it, that is displayed over our armour. You see someone wearing the imperial symbol, and think "Cripes, he's an Imperial". That would make more sense than going up to a recruiter and saying "I want to look Imperial". Overt status shouldn't last as long as it does. If I get on a shuttle, and go to a different city, no one there knows I was overt where I just was. If I move outside of a certain radius of people I was around when overt, I should loose my overt status. Dunno how you'd work that, but overtness shouldn't be such a serious thing. You should be able to go overt when you personally choose, not when an Imperial decides, and you should be able to go covert again almost as quickly. Lets just say you make walls radar-proof. As soon as there are no dots within a 128m radius or something, you can turn covert once again. That would make far more sense. Once you get a TEF however, the TEF shows up as long as it normally does. So, if you're being chased by the authorities, you can't just go into a room and go covert - you must wait the full time first.
Just my 3 cents.
The problem with PvP is the Radar. Lets face it, the radar destroys ambushes. You can see exactly where all of the blue dots are. CMs can throw poison through walls to take out people in turrets. Snipers get rumbled...you can work out exactly where they are. You can't hide troops effectively to mount an ambush. That sucks, to be honest.
There should be some means of getting around the radar. First off, if you /hide, or something, you don't show up on radar. Like aiming with a pistol, you get a separate hide bonus for when you're standing still, and when you're moving. Like with being aimed at, when you're prone, you're harder to see. If you kneel, or stand up, it puts a penalty on /hide, and you might become visible. If you move about, even while prone, there is a chance you might make yourself obvious. You get a hide penalty. On the flip-side, people have spot values. The higher their spot value, the more likely they are to spot you. Some professions would get bonuses to this...scouts, perhaps. Possibly riflemen as part of the sniper and countersniper skills, and maybe commandos. Then, you make it so walls are solid, both to poison, and to radar. If someone is inside, behind a wall, or in a ditch, they get a massive hide bonus. Behind a low wall would give a small bonus, behind a house would give a very large one. Speaking would give a person away. A very vigilant person might hear them breathing or something, and be able to "spot" them, even through walls. If you're on top of a building, your shielded by the building, and harder to spot. Darkness boosts hide bonuses. Etc. If you do something to draw attention to yourself, like firing a weapon, your hide bonus drops. Something like that should be relatively easy to calculate (just like aiming), and it would make PvP a lot more tactical. Right now, people are fighting by radar...you head for the blue dots. That's stupid. TEF can stay as it is, but if you /hide, you don't show up on a radar, regardless of your covert/overt/tef status.
About grouping with overt people. The concept of "overt" isn't all that realistic, to be honest. If you're overt, and wearing stormtrooper armour, then yeah, everyone can tell. Same with an Imperial uniform. But if you're overt, but wearing civilian clothing, you wouldn't appear overt. You shouldn't have to turn overt to put on stormie armour...you should turn overt because you did. If you want to turn overt, then perhaps give us an object with the rebel or imperial symbol on it, that is displayed over our armour. You see someone wearing the imperial symbol, and think "Cripes, he's an Imperial". That would make more sense than going up to a recruiter and saying "I want to look Imperial". Overt status shouldn't last as long as it does. If I get on a shuttle, and go to a different city, no one there knows I was overt where I just was. If I move outside of a certain radius of people I was around when overt, I should loose my overt status. Dunno how you'd work that, but overtness shouldn't be such a serious thing. You should be able to go overt when you personally choose, not when an Imperial decides, and you should be able to go covert again almost as quickly. Lets just say you make walls radar-proof. As soon as there are no dots within a 128m radius or something, you can turn covert once again. That would make far more sense. Once you get a TEF however, the TEF shows up as long as it normally does. So, if you're being chased by the authorities, you can't just go into a room and go covert - you must wait the full time first.
Just my 3 cents.
teeth0r
Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:34 pm
#211
1. Remove GTEF - if someone in your group is getting beat down and you can't help them - tough! /declare next time.
2. Remove any type of Revenge TEF - if you clone in a neutral city you should be out of the fight until you can declare again UNLESS you decide to shoot some NPCs in the hopes that you will be able to kill any overts (and coverts - see point4 below) that choose to then attack you back. This will allow for more decisive battles instead of the endless clone zerging in Theed, Anchorhead, Rebel Outpost etc.
3. Change the time it takes to go from Overt to Covert to 5 minutes OR insure that the current hour counts down even if the player is offline. I should be able to choose to go covert after an evening of PVP and then logout immediately, safe in the knowledge I will be covert by the time I login the next day.
4. I suggest that if you are covert and kill (not just injure, you must kill) a faction NPC, that you get a TEF that not only makes you vulnerable to enemy Overts, but to enemy Coverts also. This will make people think twice about slaughtering faction NPCs in cities. Obviously, if you are Overt and kill a faction NPC, you will not get this TEF - under no circumstances should a Covert ever get first-strike against an Overt.
In short if you are Covert (only), and injure a faction NPC, you get the standard TEF and are vulnerable to enemy Overts. If you then go on to kill a faction NPC, you get a more serious TEF, which makes you vulnerable to both enemy Overts and enemy Coverts. Any enemy Coverts that attack you as a result of this TEF will of course become TEF'd themselves in the standard way. If you are an Overt and injure or kill a faction NPC, nothing will change, you will still only be vulnerable to enemy Overts.
5. Remove the Trading TEF - there is no need for this, it's annoying to be booted out of a building just because you sold some stuff to an Overt. There is no exploit that makes this TEF worth having.
KiIIgore
Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:46 am
#212
sup thunderheart ...
(1) TEF's they are fine, however, I think that with the crackdown, a tefed rebel should be attackable by a high ranking imperial ...
(2) GCW and the idea of shuttle times .... idiotic, sorry, but its just stupid. And I cannot see rebels getting through imperial blockades faster than imperials, and the GCW needs more for both crafters and fighters.
(3) I think that in combat, grenades and area poisons etc should have a friendly fire risk, that would stop these suicide runs just to hit the mind pool and die.
tuls
Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:29 pm
#213
SBRD0C wrote:
Heres an Idea to Fix GTEF:
Currently, anyone who attacks an Overt in your groupd gets a TEF against you.
Keep that, but add:
Anyone who is grouped with an Overt should have a TEF. IE group with Overt Reb, Overt Imp can shoot you for being seen with the enemy.
This way Overts can see how many people they are about to fight, and group members can still assist each other if they are attacked.
You keep forgetting the casual groups against critters. Many imperials using their AT-ST's to get higher missions.
tuls
Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:49 pm
#214
For Structures there might be an easy way...
Let TEF'd get into public stated houses / buildings but don't let TEF'd people to get into buildings they currently Admin/Owner/In Entry List and dont let names to be added until TEF'd is out of house.
That might prevent exploiting.
-Hoodlum-
Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:42 pm
#215
Get rid of group TEF
Keep buffing TEF's
Remove overt trade TEF's
Add in structure access by faction alignment
Bring in Scout Armor plz! Even if it sucks it will own!
Kevie
Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:33 am
#216
someone suggested (probably on the squad leader boards) that squad leaders should be given the ability to let group members declare if the sl is the leader of the group
i think this should be put in, and GTEF taken out completely
Nadiel
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:12 am
#217
another thing about group TEF is the fact there's a way for docs to get around it. you have coverts using the group TEF then one of them dies, since he's covert the doc can rez him without any fear of getting attacked, buff him then that player can get right back into the mix if the fighting continues
WarFerret
Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:31 pm
#218
TEFs should only apply for NPC missions (and I'm not even 100% sure about that one)and actions like healing - so you can be attacked for aiding a fighting member of your faction, but you still cannot initiate combat.
Under absolutely NO circumstances, WHATSOEVER, should a covert EVER be able to initiate combat against an over player, full stop, end of discussion.
WolfwoodCross
Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:57 pm
#219
Posting in a long thread is dangerous. This is bound to get buried, but here we go!
This game is Star Wars. People want to play as Rebels, as Imperials, as the myriad of races and professions available. However, not all Star Wars fans enjoy PvP, and a player who
a) Wants to be a Rebel/Imperial
b) Does not want to PVP
Is basically Bantha Fodder Outta Luck. I've always felt this to be unfair, and since the Star Wars fanbase is relatively broad, it seems silly to limit this timeless aspect to JUST the direct PVP aspect of the game.
So I suggest that we remove all TEF and GTEF aspects of the game. Overts will remain exactly as they are, however being Covert will mean something a little different.
Covert Players should be able to attack NPCs without having to worry about being "ganked" by an opposing Overt. Covert Playersshould still be subject to the detriments of the Imperial Crackdown, however, and combat initiated by the scan would ONLY involve the NPCs and the offending player, once again, without a chance to be "ganked."
Not knowing what the whole GCW revamp will entail, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume it will have to deal with some form of Zone Control. Coverts should be able to affect this control through a form of indirect PVP, like the current FFXI "Conquest," or the upcoming indirect PVP of EQ2, perhaps calculated simply through the number of NPCs killed via factional missions. That is not to say that ONLY coverts will affect the War, as I assume any number of Overt PVP events will be in place to affect the War as well.
Also, the rebirth of the Covert could coincide with the return of the Battlefields. My vision of Battlefields is that (hopefully) they will be instanced Zones that players can join in and fight to affect the war and gain various other advantages. I picture these being played out very similarly to a Battlefield 1942 match, though with SWG controls and concepts mixed in. This is how a Covert should be able to openly PVP; by registering for an instanced Battlefield battle.
So, basically, Covert will equal indirect PVP with the option of Battlefield combat, and never having to worry about the "gank" again.
I do understand that this is slightly off topic, but when I saw the topic at hand, I just kinda welled up with the need to get this offa my chest.
stormtroopermaul
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:47 pm
#220
gtef needs to be removed if you want to fight declare.
SioBabble
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:04 pm
#221
BarlokKincaid wrote:
Thunderheart:
I really hope you do realize that the vast majority of people who are saying get rid of TEF altogether are people who are simply whining and complaining. They lack the foresight to plan for contingencies. Most of these complaints center around the fact that they got beaten and are trying to blame it on the game instead of their own incompetence.
Bingo. Give this man a cigar.