Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Community Relations Follow-up
DeQuosaek
Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:24 pm
#209
Well, while we're on the topic of philosophical questions... Ifsomeone gave a gun that had been sliced already to a slicer and asked for a slice andthe slicerdidn't notice it had already been sliced and he tried to slice it and the system gave him the message that it had already been sliced and he couldn't slice it, he would be as guilty of exploiting as the person in question according to you. Is he guilty?
Maulibaer wrote:
Hmmm......is the failed attempt to exploit an exploit????A very philosophical question, indeed......
Lets see: I try to shoot someone in the head, but I miss him, are I'm guilty or not????
Talonsin
Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:26 pm
#210
Cal,
Why does it take 18 months of time to get a bug list for each profession made? Once the bug list is made what arethe chances that most items will not be given a time frame they should be fixed in? Whywas SOE able to give a time-frame for when JTL (a completely new system) would be released but we still have no clue when several professions will get fixed or when AFKing will be removed? What kind of a message are you sending to the community when you do things like this?
I really think your efforts are a step in the right direction but I think it is a step SOE should have taken long ago. I also think you are in a really tough spot. SOE has awell deservedreputation for poor community relations and I cant imagine how many roadblocks they will be throwing down in front of you as you try to help them make things better. You really do have my mostheartfelt sympathy for the task that lays ahead of you.
I regret I will not be able to watch your progress. I have not really played the game in months and I am tired of paying for2 accounts while I wait for SOE to finally care about what I want so I will be cancelling them as soon as I send this off.
Good luck to you
Calandryll_SOE
Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:52 pm
#211
AnXdiety wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Dormax wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
I understand the animosity and never claimed it wasn't warrented. I totally agree that actions speak louder than words. Next week, you will see some action on the Community proposals I have been talking about as well as some other stuff.
We WILL see some action..... or we SHOULD see some action??
Don't forget that these people take you (as a Dev) litterally!
Will.
Quick example for you. In the previous thread regarding Community Relations there was a lot of emotions regarding the numerous JTL Friday Features. Guess what we have this week? 2 more advertisements for your beloved expansion. There's no time like NOW to start implimenting those changes.
Friday Features are prepared in advance, sometimes up to two weeks. This week's Friday Feature...well let's just say it's very cool and leave it at that.
Beldraen
Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:59 pm
#212
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
The bug list is really just a matter of deciding to do it. It has pitfalls though. For one, all of the bugs on the list wont get fixed right away. By posting the list, we put ourselves in a difficult position because some players can point to one particular unfixed bug as evidence that we aren't doing anything, while ignoring all of the bugs we did fix. That said, it's a risk we are willing to take in order to attempt to communicate better. Most bugs wont be given a timeframe unless they are scheduled. There are going to be times when an assigned bug gets pushed back because of some other issue and we will update the list when that occurs. We're still working on the particulars of how the list will work as well.As far as timeframes go, its actually easier to give a timeframe for something like an expansion. Most of the reason for that is its highly unlikely that other stuff will take priority over an expansion while live development is much more fluid. Again though, we are going to communicate live development to you earlier than we currently do. That is probably our number 1 goal. From a community relations perspective we want to focus more on live development.
At the risk of being called negative, I want to point out that this is an invalid argument against being public about bugs. It is a common feature in knowledge management poor teams and design/development that often fails to meet deadlines or have consistent activities. If you have a known list of conditions and an estimate of their completion then two issues become easily determinable. First, the summation of the durations give the estimated manpower. Right now, people complain that many bugs have never been fixed and you take flak because while you may be fixing them tomorrow, no one knows to what you are actually working. If you tell people that you are currently three months behind in fixes and people can see that fixes are being issued, you will gain brownie points with your users. Second, by watching the delta of the summation, you can gauge the quality of your production process. At this point and in my professional opinion, SOE's development team's performance is poor due to a lack of truthfulness in both correspondence with their users and within themselves. This is actually very common with software development processes, unfortunately.
The most successful design processes work in a completely open environment in an iterative design model. If you are interested in working on these concepts, I can point you to literature that would help.
scall01
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:06 pm
#213
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
This week's Friday Feature...well let's just say it's very cool and leave it at that.
I'm hoping that was sarcasm.
Calandryll_SOE
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:10 pm
#214
Why?
scall01 wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
This week's Friday Feature...well let's just say it's very cool and leave it at that.
I'm hoping that was sarcasm.
Calandryll_SOE
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:11 pm
#215
Beldraen wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
The bug list is really just a matter of deciding to do it. It has pitfalls though. For one, all of the bugs on the list wont get fixed right away. By posting the list, we put ourselves in a difficult position because some players can point to one particular unfixed bug as evidence that we aren't doing anything, while ignoring all of the bugs we did fix. That said, it's a risk we are willing to take in order to attempt to communicate better. Most bugs wont be given a timeframe unless they are scheduled. There are going to be times when an assigned bug gets pushed back because of some other issue and we will update the list when that occurs. We're still working on the particulars of how the list will work as well.
As far as timeframes go, its actually easier to give a timeframe for something like an expansion. Most of the reason for that is its highly unlikely that other stuff will take priority over an expansion while live development is much more fluid. Again though, we are going to communicate live development to you earlier than we currently do. That is probably our number 1 goal. From a community relations perspective we want to focus more on live development.
At the risk of being called negative, I want to point out that this is an invalid argument against being public about bugs. It is a common feature in knowledge management poor teams and design/development that often fails to meet deadlines or have consistent activities. If you have a known list of conditions and an estimate of their completion then two issues become easily determinable. First, the summation of the durations give the estimated manpower. Right now, people complain that many bugs have never been fixed and you take flak because while you may be fixing them tomorrow, no one knows to what you are actually working. If you tell people that you are currently three months behind in fixes and people can see that fixes are being issued, you will gain brownie points with your users. Second, by watching the delta of the summation, you can gauge the quality of your production process. At this point and in my professional opinion, SOE's development team's performance is poor due to a lack of truthfulness in both correspondence with their users and within themselves. This is actually very common with software development processes, unfortunately.
The most successful design processes work in a completely open environment in an iterative design model. If you are interested in working on these concepts, I can point you to literature that would help.
Which is why we are going to see how posting the bug list works out.
Rutigrr
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:17 pm
#216
i have noticed some bugs have been fixed lately and there was no notice of it in any patch notes. I don't mind so much, because deep down, the important thing is that it got fixed. Thanx for what the team has done so far in the past 2 weeks, as far as fixing bugs are concerned. Some of them have 'bugged' me for a long time now.
Novock
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:26 pm
#217
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Why?
scall01 wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
This week's Friday Feature...well let's just say it's very cool and leave it at that.
I'm hoping that was sarcasm.
If this weeks FF is something other than the detials about teh CU it will be met again with the same feedback this weeks FF was met with. We are tired of JTL and other useless FFs we want to know details regarding the CU and not just a new post that says the same stuff thats has already been stated . We are 4 months away from the 2 year anniversary and the two main coresystems combat and the GCW remain borked and no answers are coming no timeframes and no real steps to ssure us that the Cu is not going to meet teh same fate the rebalance and the revamp before it met. We have waited for over a year for a promised reblanace/revamp and now Cu and we are growing exceedingly tired of waiting. I may be called negative or pessimistic but even gamespy and gamepro believe the delays and broken promises are beyond a respectfully and acceptable level.
I'm tired of being be seprarted into two groups the elite privilidged ALPHA who get the information and the rest of us who's money is obviously not as important to SOE the peons of SWG... everyone else. We want info we want it yesterday.
Message Edited by Novock on 01-17-2005 08:27 PM
GrinInc
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:33 pm
#218
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Why?
scall01 wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
This week's Friday Feature...well let's just say it's very cool and leave it at that.
I'm hoping that was sarcasm.
Because regardless of the Combat Upgrade, the ground game in general has been ignored as far as FF go for quite sometime and it's something we were hoping would change soon.
Calandryll_SOE
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:40 pm
#219
GrinInc wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Why?
scall01 wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
This week's Friday Feature...well let's just say it's very cool and leave it at that.
I'm hoping that was sarcasm.
Because regardless of the Combat Upgrade, the ground game in general has been ignored as far as FF go for quite sometime and it's something we were hoping would change soon.
Understood. Well I certainly don't want to give away what it is, but I can tell you it's not about JTL.
Court-Jester
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:59 pm
#220
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Understood. Well I certainly don't want to give away what it is, but I can tell you it's not about JTL.
Yet at the same time, I hope you can understand why we would be frustrated. There have been so many "non" JTL friday features. And yet they don't focus on the Ground Game either. I can't speak for everyone, but, I would rather have no friday feature at all compared to some trumped up flower "CURB" crap. I know thats harsh but I want info.
Are dots gone?
Are buffs hit?
Are accuracy/damage/def vs mods affected?
Where do jedi stand?
What will a stacker in todays combat mean in tomorrows CURB?
If its going to be nothing but "yay for us...here comes the curb..." Just tell us now and we'll tune out.
Edited cause I can't spell...and probably even after this...can't speeeeeel well...
Message Edited by Court-Jester on 01-17-2005 06:00 PM
Sien_Chotor
Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:07 pm
#221
Can you address the issue as to whya publish that was meant to be a bug fix, introduced and maintained so many new and old bugs? You guys have always emphasized your publishes are more about quality no matter how long they take, but why is it they always break more things than fix? Im not flaming or anything, just curious.