Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
taloncard
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:09 am
#2120
From the GCW forum
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=222831
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BlueCelt wrote:
Still think its the worst idea and is a continued trend in misinformation. Refrencing a different post here I'm gonna post what has been said about the combat rebalance.
EDIT# This is not a slam on TH or any CSR type. Not their fault.
***********************************************************************
TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
************************************************************************
TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
************************************************************************
TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
***************************************************************************
TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'll be preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week that will help everyone get on the same page for going forward
***************************************************************************
TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
****************************************************************************
TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
*****************************************************************************
TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
********************************************************************************
TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
*********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
***********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
*****************************************************
TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
******************************************************
TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?. It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
****************************************************
TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
*******************************************************************
TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be "the weapon" that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance.
*******************************************
96)?96:this.scrollHeight)"
TH 7/15/04: I will be immediately working with the correspondents and the community to develop a list of pre-combat balance fixes
Gary Gattis's State of the Game Letter (around pub 8!): We are cranking on the Combat Balance, and we think development on it will span 2 more publishes.
So...which is it? Were we lied too? mislead? or ???
Message Edited by BlueCelt on 07-16-2004 07:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you started the combat revamp in december, You state that JTL started in Jan. Where does your calander create an error that Jan 04 comes before december 03?
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=222831
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BlueCelt wrote:
Still think its the worst idea and is a continued trend in misinformation. Refrencing a different post here I'm gonna post what has been said about the combat rebalance.
EDIT# This is not a slam on TH or any CSR type. Not their fault.
***********************************************************************
TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
************************************************************************
TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
************************************************************************
TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
************************************************************************
TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
*************************************************************************
TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
***************************************************************************
TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
**************************************************************************
TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'll be preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week that will help everyone get on the same page for going forward
***************************************************************************
TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
****************************************************************************
TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
*****************************************************************************
TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
********************************************************************************
TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
*********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
***********************************************************************
TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
*****************************************************
TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
******************************************************
TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?. It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
****************************************************
TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
*******************************************************************
TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be "the weapon" that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance.
*******************************************
96)?96:this.scrollHeight)"
TH 7/15/04: I will be immediately working with the correspondents and the community to develop a list of pre-combat balance fixes
Gary Gattis's State of the Game Letter (around pub 8!): We are cranking on the Combat Balance, and we think development on it will span 2 more publishes.
So...which is it? Were we lied too? mislead? or ???
Message Edited by BlueCelt on 07-16-2004 07:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you started the combat revamp in december, You state that JTL started in Jan. Where does your calander create an error that Jan 04 comes before december 03?
Gamexaholic
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:11 am
#2121
I have to say its a bad idea to lie for 8 months about CB revamp just to lie another 8 months about it again.
mmaughme
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:20 am
#2122
XBlue wrote:It's funny I stopped playing FFXI,one of the most stableMMOGs I have ever seen,for SWG,the biggest POS I have ever seen,only because I thought the devs could turn this into the greatest game of all time.I wounder if its too late to save my FFXI character from deletion.
I cancelled my SWG account a few days after Publish 9, for various reasons (most of them various forms of anger, disappointment and disgust related to this game). I've been playing FFXI every since, and haven't yet encountered a single bug or game-inhibiting behavior in that game.
FR33K
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:22 am
#2123
annatova wrote:
My God people,
Its only a game, and one I personally enjoy with my spare time (spare time - its a game you know. I think you all need to relax, invest in some Prozac. I mean really! So your little switch doesn't work the way you want it to? who cares? just take a deep breath, have fun, and know that since July '03 (since I've been playing) things have improved 100x from where they were.
This is a living breathing game, which I think makes it fun. Think about the DE's wow has that changed to the positive since a year ago.
I can't wait to fly my own ship - Thanks for a great game SOE
anna,
well duh, it's a game. That was never the question. And yes it's a living breathing type of game. The issue (in case you missed it) is that MMO's are typically "player-input" types of games. The MAJORITY of players have issues with the PvP aspect of the game and "balance" between professions.The MAJORITY of devs have issues with the PvP aspect of the game and "balance" between professions.
It's been this way since at least last Oct, if not earlier.
SOE recognized this and we were promised CB. We havebeen told to"wait for CB" concerning the VAST majority of our questions on "game play"for over 8 months now, and it looks like we get to hear that answer for another 6 months or so before we even start to see work being completed on this.
This game ISONLY 2 things. Combat related AND Combat-Support related. Notice how Combat is pretty much the center of the entire game. We see the weakness, SOE sees the weakness, We know it needs to be fixed, SOE agrees it needs to be fixed due the NATURE of this game.
The reason we even post this crap is because we WANT this game to succeed and be around for many years to come. It is far more irritating to constantly lose in-game friendsdue to "avoidable"disappointment (or lack of faith in SOE) than it is to hear another "wait-a-few-more-months" statement.
XwingRogue3
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:25 am
#2124
I move for a vote of no confidence in the DEV's.
There professionalism is the most pathetic display I have ever seen. If it were not for the names Sony and Lucas Arts behind these DEV's, they would all be out of a job because of a failed game. I find it absolutely amazing and insulting that we as paying customers are forced to put up with this type of work. I sure hope you DEV's don't call yourself Star Wars fans, because your actions within this game are a slap in the face to real Star Wars fans. Shame on you DEV's. Shame on you.
Guba
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:26 am
#2125
Shropt wrote:
Wow... or should I say WoW?
Raiyne wrote:
Ravenedge wrote:
TH - Here's an article from the Everquest boards that I think is very important to recent events here in the SWG community. I found it in another thread. I hope I'm not reposting something that has been posted before, but I firmly believe this is what is needed to help make SWG the finest MMORPG ever, but it will also go along way to help alot of us players who are upset and angry over the recent decisions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/news_section/newsview.jsp?story=62268
Hello Norrath!
I wanted to announce that we've decided to push Omens of War back to Late August in order to give the EQ team time to respond to important issues that the EverQuest community is raising (specifically including the issues with Gates of Discord). We've heard some concerns from within the community that we feel are important enough to push back our next expansion and spend time fixing the problems you have brought to our attention. At the end of the day, we work for you and it's important for us to demonstrate that we both understand and appreciate that. We're also inviting many members of the community to join us here at SOE for a day to have a direct dialog with the development team about issues that are important to the EverQuest community as a whole. We've already sent out the invitations and are making all the arrangements. In addition, our EQ community managers will be coming up with a list of issues raised on the message boards so that we can come back to you with a specific list of things we're going to address.
I'm sorry if you feel we haven't been listening and reacting appropriately. We do our best to balance all of the needs and concerns you raise along with expanding Norrath and giving you new and wonderful things to do in EverQuest, but we do make mistakes. We've heard you loud and clear.
We have many things planned for EverQuest over the upcoming years, and our goal is to keep you happily playing EverQuest for a long time to come. The best way for us to do that is by first and foremost listening to you.
John Smedley
President, Sony Online Entertainment
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this speaks for itself.
It has...but is hardly inappropriate...
Holy **edit**. I posted here earlier that the Dev's of SWG need a huge dose of integrity. Here is the precedent set by another MMO to prove that it is possible to admit you've made a mistake. If the 1000's of cancelled accounts don't show you that this decision is one of the worst you've made, then you'll never make this game last. My question is, why the silence there Thunderheart? I think it's because your whole team is dumping it's pants atm. But I think you'll do as you've done the last 12 months. You're going to post some stupid response about how you're doing what's best for the game, despite the 1000's who are telling you that you're not. Keep it up guys, you're going to be the example of all MMO's in the future of what not to do. I hope you can put that on you're resume's. lmao
My guild alone has lost about 15 accounts so far. =/
TheHomicidalVerpine
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:26 am
#2126
Well,
If you ask this gamer, this isn't even a Star Wars game for Fanboys and Fangirls. There isn't any sense of concrete content in the game that leads you to believe your playing in Episodes 4-6 the minute you do see a Player Jedi. I'm still in line with thinking this is far too little far too late. What it boils down to is maybe 1-5% of the community is going to quit over this. So, we haven't adversely affected the future of the game except for SOE to lose the people that really know the story and would've liked to have seen this game become something that made you feel like you were playing in a certain part of the timeline that had some pretty well known established rules. The number one item being No Other Jedi were running around in this timeframe.
You really want to improve this game? Then you had better be doing something that clears up the content in this game along with the Combat Balance and GCW publish. Quite frankly, No Jedi allowed servers would be the best option if SOE has no plans on making a series of different Star Wars era servers. That's what Episode 4-6 was all about. It boiled down to Luke and Vader and the Emperor deciding what was going to be the outcome of the Jedi. Our stories shouldn't have anything to do with The Force. We're the people that support the Rebellion or Empire in the established struggle. So the biggest thing missing has been a way to mark territorial wins and losses of battles on planets. That and the whole issue with hardly anyone wearing factional armor or Imperial/Rebel dress uniforms.
Just my two cents. And that's about as constructive as I can put it with my growing dislike of where this game has been taken.
THV
KzinKiller
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:28 am
#2127
just take a deep breath, have fun, and know that since July '03 (since I've been playing) things have improved 100x from where they were.
anna ... this is exactly where thousands of us disagree with you. If I agreed with this, I wouldn't be leaving on the 26th. The most discouraging thing for me is that I see no improvement whatsoever in the processes being used by the folk at SOE managing this project. Communication with the customer base is as bad or worse than ever. Decisions on code changes are as uninformed or misguided as ever. Testing of production code is as rushed and inadequate as ever.
Are there things that work better today than they did on Day 1 when I started (Ok, Day 2, who could get in on Day 1?) ... sure. But there are also more bugs in more key systems than ever ... and each Publish brings more. PvP, which was relatively entertaining for almost anyone six months ago, is a temploiting Jedi-infested shambles today. That's not progress.
It is the very fact that there is so little sign of value for our money that is discouraging people and causing them to go out the door.
DarthJar
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:41 am
#2128
annatova wrote:My God people,Its only a game, and one I personally enjoy with my spare time (spare time - its a game you knowThis is a living breathing game, which I think makes it fun. Think about the DE's wow has that changed to the positive since a year ago.I can't wait to fly my own ship - Thanks for a great game SOE
Obviously you have been playing a different game than the overwhelming majority on this board.
So you think that the game has improved 100% since you started playing? Good for you, here's a cookie.
I've been here since Beta and there are bugs and issues still in the game that have never been addressed. There are MAJOR issues that have never been addressed. If it works fine for you, great, go play it. It does not work well for the vast majority of us, and you can take your holier than thou attitude back into the game where you can pat all your friends on the back and agree amongst yourself how well this game works.
For us it does not. For us, this issue is a game breaker. For us, we have waited far too long already to have this **edit** shoved down our throats.
I for one have cancelled 2 accounts and they will run out sometime next month. In the meantime I will be here every day, every single solitary day slamming those people who should be making this happen. I will continue to do that until A. My account expires, or B. They ban me from these boards.
Frankly, I could give a damn which comes first.
AFHyper
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:46 am
#2129
Well, a very sad day has come to pass... All of my friends have left the game for greener pastures and with no friends, what is the point of a MMORPG? I had been holding out and hoping (in vain it seems) for something that I can use to bring back the old friends or make the game worthwile for me to continue to play. It seems now that I have no real reason to stick around and continue to pay the monthly costs of 4 accounts. Maybe I will be back in a year or so... but then again, maybe I won't. 
I only ever started playing this game because it was star wars, and now there is nothing to remind me of that, or will there be for a LONG time. So, just in case you don't read every post in this very long thread.
I only ever started playing this game because it was star wars, and now there is nothing to remind me of that, or will there be for a LONG time. So, just in case you don't read every post in this very long thread. 4 Accounts Cancled
And to all those that stay, may the force be with you ... and tons and tons of patience
Sincerely
Amom
DavunFecari
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:57 am
#2130
Man I just read a portion of that onslaught of posts, not sure what to say. I had no idea so many people had cancelled due to that post.. I only just read it now.
Honestly, regardless of having to pay for it (I must have no concern over how much I've paid for this game so far.. i've been playing since Beta 2) I am a huge Star Wars fan, but have always been more geared to the Space Expansion, when I had first heard of the game years back.
I am about through with the groundgame, and have been for a while. I play on occasion. One of the only things keeping me around is myguild on Starsider. I've seen most of the people I met when the game launched come and go, and it's kind of depressing, but JTL isthe only thing keeping me going.
I am glad to see them pushing forward JTL, I don't care if it's going to cost me $29 or whatever, I just want to play the damn game I've been wanting since I played X-wing Alliance years ago. I know everyone is bitching and moaning about the ground game, but the reason I overlook it, is because it's been dead to me for a while. If I had known that the original statement about "the space expansion" being a "delayed" release had meant a year 1/2.. I would have waited to start playing, and would probably be a little less annoyed.
For reasons many have already stated, buffs are way too powerful and just plain unrealistic, armor: forget it (shouldn't even be that much armor in the game anyhow.. only a small amount of people in the original movies and the new ones had armor, and it sure didn't stop blasters very well), the Mind stat is the only one anyone goes for, and makes pvp just plain boring and frustrating... I can go on here for hours on continuity alone.. let alone actual gameplay.... but anyway.. not going to bash anymore cuz it helps nobody, but damnit guys.. if you're going to put all your eggs in this basket... MAKE JTL WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If JTL fails me like the rest of the Star Wars feel has.. I really have no choice.. I never planned to play more than one MMO at one time, but I've already made plans to try MXO, WoW, and even CoH (once there are villains).. I really thought SWG would be the best MMO I could ever ask for... I think the game would have succeeded better if you said it was an alternate Star Wars Galaxy.. similar to the one you know, but just not quite the same... It's not Star Wars to me anymore....
Rooks
Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:57 am
#2131
What really saddens me is the names of the people I see leaving.
I have been with this game for 3+ years. I am seeing names from the PRE-BETA Forum boards and they are cancelling their accounts.
I remember when we used to chat daily with the Devs and give suggestions, remodel ideas, talk about families. Back then we REALLY were a community and we trusted the Devs to make the Star Wars game we ALL wanted when we were kids back in the 70s and 80s.
Now, Isee these same people quitting because of the BETRAYAL of the Devs to us.
This is classic Star Wars story here. Except the Devs are the Darkside and are hunting down the loyal players and taking them out, one by one with their irresponsible choices, driving one more player away that gave their time and energy back before when this game was nothing more than a forum board.
WE are the ones that have stuck with this game for 3+ years and had EVERY hope that the Devs would still make this game work.
Devs, you remember those days, don't you?
Remember how fun it was?
Well, that fun is gone.
Now everything is a grind and frankly, this isn't the Star Wars game we all wanted back then.
This is some sort of beast with the SW name only and quite frankly is nothing more than a chat room sim now that Combat is effectively dead for 6 more months.
Really, ANY player that is invovled in Combat really has ZERO reason to log in or subscribe for the next 6 months.
HELP us fix this game, Devs. PLEASE.
We have TONS of quick fixs on the forum boards and most can be done in a few DAYS.
Show us, the players that have stuck with you for 3+ YEARS that you are still the Dev team we trusted to make this game what we all hoped for.
To those that have cancelled, you'll be missed.
Especially those old timers from Pre-Beta. Take it easy friends.
Quinnt13
Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:05 am
#2132
FR33K wrote:
anna,
well duh, it's a game. That was never the question. And yes it's a living breathing type of game. The issue (in case you missed it) is that MMO's are typically "player-input" types of games. The MAJORITY of players have issues with the PvP aspect of the game and "balance" between professions.The MAJORITY of devs have issues with the PvP aspect of the game and "balance" between professions.
It's been this way since at least last Oct, if not earlier.
SOE recognized this and we were promised CB. We havebeen told to"wait for CB" concerning the VAST majority of our questions on "game play"for over 8 months now, and it looks like we get to hear that answer for another 6 months or so before we even start to see work being completed on this.
This game ISONLY 2 things. Combat related AND Combat-Support related. Notice how Combat is pretty much the center of the entire game. We see the weakness, SOE sees the weakness, We know it needs to be fixed, SOE agrees it needs to be fixed due the NATURE of this game.
The reason we even post this crap is because we WANT this game to succeed and be around for many years to come. It is far more irritating to constantly lose in-game friendsdue to "avoidable"disappointment (or lack of faith in SOE) than it is to hear another "wait-a-few-more-months" statement.
It's interesting that you characterize the structure of the game as mostly "combat/combat-support". I'd tend to agree with you, but also realize that this game attempted to pioneer the most complex player-based economy of any MMORPG to date. Creating an entire economy from scratch using only player-created items was a bold step by SOE.
In retrospect, while the crafting system is second-to-none in its immersiveness, I think it's clear that SOE tried to do to much at once. Creating such a complex crafting environment AND a complex combat environment are each hard enough to accomplish by themselves, let alone together in the same game. Make no mistake, there are lots of people who play this game never havingparticipated in any sort ofcombat....for them, the game is all about the crafting and taking pride in their wares.Between resource management, storage, factories, vendors, etc. etc., there is plenty to keep someone busy.
But every MMORPG is really defined by their combat systems/professions. That's just how it is. And I think SOE placed too much reliance in the fact that they thought they'd have a more"balanced" population of combat/crafting professions. It just doesn't work that way. Most people, at the core, wanna blast stuff. At least a little. Now we're stuck with broken combat professions, borked PvP, useless GCW, blah blah ad nauseum etc etc...I don't know where the game is headed, but if we're driving along the MMORPG highway, I can see a huge truck bearing down on us....and that truck has the letters "WoW" on its front grill.