Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Punchlist Feedback
BobaMeng
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:48 am
#196
Jedi Conversion Process
a - 4 3 3 4 Initiate 59
b - 4 3 4 4 Initiate 62
c - 4 4 4 4 Initiate 65
b - 4 3 4 4 Initiate 62
c - 4 4 4 4 Initiate 65
My only problem with the conversion process is that since its not Bubble for bubble, I am worried about waisted skill points.
Based on the current skill system, which I hear is likely going to change again, I find planning for maximum value is difficult.
Using the numbers above (based on current conversions)
I am Currently templat A, and have the EXP for Template B, but I have a week to make it to C.
Do I go for B or C pre conversion? Well since template B gives me enough skills for a : 0/2/4/4 Lightsabre (62 points) and break even, if I spend the next week working up 800k and get Template C, I have 65 points, but its NOT enough to get 0/3/4/4, or 1/2/4/4 which if your already in the C Template basically means your getting hosed.
The conversion process is Very messed up, 2 possible solutions come to mind, bubble for bubble coversion, or some kind of EXP refund for people are have left over credits when they exit the conversion process.
No matter what the skill formula is going to be some peeps are getting the short end of the stick. I am not one of them, subject to the conversion changing again, but I am also affraid of buying anything to make sure i dont get hosed.
Treguard
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:33 am
#197
FlagJin wrote:
The one that I finhd quite hilarious is about moving healbattlefatigue to the novice tree being overpowering. A newly unlocked jedi initiate gets this....so how is it overpowering? Because of this I am forced to go into cantinas and watch entertainers to heal my mind wounds. Something that as soon as I unlocked I have not had to do. Simply amazing how logic is getting a working over these days.
You mean, "I have to go find a buff bot that isn't an actual player to go heal my mind wounds, when I'd rather never see another player in my life."
Bleah.
Aanu
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:47 am
#198
Thrasia wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Here are the questions and the answers:
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1. XP loss will greatly affect the ability for a Jedi Knight to change their template. There should be a way to retrain skills at the Knight level so that:
A. You don't have to do the trials again just to change a skill
B. The immense amount of negative XP that will happen in PVP will not gate you from retraining.
TH: Experience loss has been changed back and forth a bit. There has to be some death penalty associated with PvP deaths because of the inherent power level of Jedi and also to prevent Jedi from selling their deaths to Bounty Hunters. Without a penalty, it leaves the possibility of a "Death-credit" loop.
However, we are going to remove XP loss for Force Ranked Jedi when they fight each other because it is required to gain rank.
^ This is awful. There should be risk vs. reward for being a FRS jedi. That is why the forced PvP deaths will mean so much more. These FRS will already be uber "cutting swathes through people." Now you want to remove any potential risk to this profession as well. And dont say perma-overt status is a risk. We all know that wont be a problem for any uber-jedi.
________________________________
11. XP loss should have a decay timer. Negative XP should decay some amount every week to help people get back on their feet.
TH: The changes made to mitigate Force Ranked Jedi from losing XP for fighting each other will solve most of that problem. The rest of the problem should be solved by not throwing yourself into the meat-grinder
^ What happened to at least putting on the pretense that being a jedi will be "perilous and difficult". I remember reading the FAQ many times pre-launch and thought to myself about how the Dev team really had a good grasp of Jedi. Man was I seriously mistaken.
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13. Robes of all levels should have *some* sort of armor resists. Padawan who are just starting out in the world could use a Robe with some resists. Higher level Jedi Robes should have +resists to certain things like poison/fire/etc.
TH: The Jedi Development team is against balancing these combat features with the robes. We will work to balance resists to poisons/fire/etc. in a different manner and report back to you.
^ Sure, why not? I recall watching Episode 2 and specifically seeing Mace Windu's "jedi robes" catch on fire quite easily. Unless you tell me that these swg player jedi are more powerful than Mace Windu, I cant comprehend why jedi robes should have these resists. Please enlighten me.
______________________________
14. Master Healing should be able to cure a firedot.
TH: Done.
^ Again, why is no one who makes a Star Wars game watching, uh, Star Wars?? Mace Windu was clearly afraid of Jango's flamethrower. He /forceran/jumped the heck out of there, clothes on fire and all. Why should jedi be impervious to every single thing in the game?
________________________
21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.
TH: Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not "scrappers" and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range. This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.
^ I still dont understand why BH's are given jedi missions then. We wont be able to do anything to jedi except provide amusement.
__________________________
22. Polearm saber is superior to the other 2 sabers in everyway given the +100 speed rating at master. This means that every Jedi will be using one for the most part. Please bring the other 2 sabers up to par.
TH: We have been testing this internally. All three sabers will have similar appeal and functionality and we will see even more balance to this issue in the Combat balance. Once the speed formula is altered in the Combat Balance, a Jedi will have the choice of a slower, heavier hitting saber or a quicker lower damage lightsaber. Another factor is special choice, while different Jedi may prefer a body hit while others may prefer the mind hits.
^ I recall you saying, while describing the combat rebalance, that targeted HAM attacks will no longer be such a big deal....specifically targeting the mind. Are we to take from this that Jedi will be exempt from the new combat resitrictions in the upcoming nerf?
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26. Hooded Cloaks. Yes its not going to kill anyone if we can't have a hooded cloak, but they are intrinsic to the look and feel of Jedi, and we've been teased with pictures of Jedi in them since pre-release. Can you just give tailors the ability to craft these darn things? 1 per species model if needed... There's no reason only a Jedi should be able to wear a simple cloak with a hood, and more people running around in them will help us hide ourselves.
The desire for hooded cloaks will never go away.
TH: Hooded cloaks (as with all wearables in the game) are far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce than they appear to be. Huge actually. It’s not 1 cloak or 2 cloaks, but somewhere around 120 cloaks would have to be produced internally for all Jedi robes to have hoods in the game. Here’s how it breaks down: There are currently 31 unique Jedi Robe Models. For each of those to be hooded, there needs to be a special version for Wookiees, Twilek and Mon Cal’s because of their heads and a version for the rest of the species, except for Trandos which get a special version because of their feet. The time and manpower to create 120 cloaks isn't available at this time. We want and will do this in the future, but it is just not possible right now.
^ Yes, lets dedicate even more Dev time to the Jedi system for cloaks. A project that will be "far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce." I know hooded cloaks are VERY important to a majority of the player base..HUGE actually.../end sarcasm.
Thrasia
Right on Thrasia.
-a
Neutral Imperial Agent
No hoods?
CedenoChiron
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:40 am
#200
Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not "scrappers" and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range. This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.
LOL.....I must have been watching the wrong movies
Prances
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:40 am
#201
TKA More powerful than Jedi? Fine... make TKA take 8-12 months to master, make them fight for ranking, and disallow armor use.
I mean, come on... I DON'T expect to be uber powerful ever...
What I do expect, and I think what the devs should consider, is that Jedi should at least be respected for their abilities. Perhaps they shouldn't be able to defeat anyone and everyone, but they should at least be powerful enough to give others pause before attacking.
Oh wait! I remember now... The Emporer always had a TKM/Fencer fight all the Jedi in Episodes 1,2 and Luke in 3,4,5. One was named Darth Maul, and Doku, and I think the other TKM/Fencer was Darth Vader...
Seriously.. show some respect for the license already and quit thinking up cleverly marketed ways of doing nothing more than making Jedi less desireable because you allowed the population to get out of control.
I mean, come on... I DON'T expect to be uber powerful ever...
What I do expect, and I think what the devs should consider, is that Jedi should at least be respected for their abilities. Perhaps they shouldn't be able to defeat anyone and everyone, but they should at least be powerful enough to give others pause before attacking.
Oh wait! I remember now... The Emporer always had a TKM/Fencer fight all the Jedi in Episodes 1,2 and Luke in 3,4,5. One was named Darth Maul, and Doku, and I think the other TKM/Fencer was Darth Vader...
Seriously.. show some respect for the license already and quit thinking up cleverly marketed ways of doing nothing more than making Jedi less desireable because you allowed the population to get out of control.
Pthdora
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:54 am
#202
Jeee....and who ever said the devs dont cater to jedi...I remember docs waiting 5 MONTHS for Class 4 liq petro and dolovite iron....THERE WERE POSTS IN EXESS OF 1000 RESPONSES BEGGING FOR THIS....DEVS SAID NOTHING....NO A GODDAM THING!!!!!!!!!!
ere are a couple of points to consider.There are community resources to help find and identify these resources and also to purchase them on the open market.The other concern to consider is that Culsion is only required in 3rd and 4th generation.As far as the challenge of crafting the saber goes, this is the nature of the crafting system. More advanced components require the rare specific resources. We can see that all servers have had a spawn of this material within a reasonable time frame.
Lord-Brisbane
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:59 am
#203
DeadlyBlue wrote:Im not flaming anyone just scolding us Jedi. After reading that Jedi Punchlist for the first time, I would say selfish little **edit**s!Man you shouldn't ask the Devs to make us Demi-Gods.
EXCUSE ME
Jedis should be god's due to their training just like Navy seals are the elite soilders IT DUE TO THEIR THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND THEIR SKILLS it should not come down to 1 class to being able to kill them it should take 20-30 people and a combition of profession the reason we are even at this point in the game is cause all the whinners. Its not fair only Powergammers can have jedi so what
Jedis are meant to be unbalancing and the only thing that should be able to solo is a dark jedi not some Bruce lee wanna be or even a boba fett i worked my Ass off to be one and i want the glory of being one. You should think twice about fighting one
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
then become a power gammer Jedi should be only for the people who are dedicated to the game and want to play everyday jedi is not something that you should be able to just put on the back burrner when you are bored.
Greenyman
Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:00 am
#204
WellThunderhead , the patch will be great when you the stuff you neeed to fix before the patch,
The Pearls and the sabers , that is stuff thakt you cannot make after the patch.
Example : currently i have a 2 handed saber with 3 bad crystals , and i bought a normal perl for mio with 120 damage and -3 force and -1,7 speed , when i use this pearl in my saber , i will only get back bad items ... thats the problem , its waste to put this perl inside.
You have to find some way , lets say : If you decronstuct saber (5th gen for example) the system looks at the stats , and adds 10% (10% because some people have crafted saber with expensive pearls and only had abad crafting succes) , ok now we have the 110 % of the stats , and the 4 pearls inside , now what could be a way is that you get back at least 1 exellent pearl or something still deppending on stats.
However the main problem are the people who have played months to get the money for 4 -9 FC pearls , or -8 and -7 also extremly expensive stuff , these go for around 10 million.
People who crafted sabers with them have to get back good - fc pearls.
On test i heared there are now pearls with -20 fc , what you also have to do is to convert the current pearls correcly , -9 FC was hightest to get , if its 20 after patch , these pearls have to convert into -20 , so that they still stay the best and the player didnt spended 10 million credts he had to work so long for for nothing ...
That is very simple mathamatic
-9 = -20
-4,5 = -10
easy , do the saim with the damage and make sure people will get back exellent stuff from saber made of stuff worth 40 million .....
All Jedis are know are very worried about this , we worked to long to get these pearls DEVs ......
So make sure to :
Convert the current pearls and crystals
Give us back what we should get back from sabers made of exellent stuff---
KillaernAnderling
Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:16 am
#205
FlagJin wrote:
The one that I finhd quite hilarious is about moving healbattlefatigue to the novice tree being overpowering. A newly unlocked jedi initiate gets this....so how is it overpowering? Because of this I am forced to go into cantinas and watch entertainers to heal my mind wounds. Something that as soon as I unlocked I have not had to do. Simply amazing how logic is getting a working over these days.
Every other profession has been tweaked with hot fixes and patches. .Jedi is the only one yet to undergo major facelifts and changes... As it stands now, the profession trees were created ages ago.. It is a powerful skill as any knowledgeable person will agree.. you should have to spend some skil points to obtain this skill..
Just because it was granted at novice initiate 9 months ago, doesnt mean it sitll should.. things change ..
Locusk-Pistoleer-CH
Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:17 am
#206
I like everyone else who has unlocked (12-25-03) have been reading all the posts pertaining to this revamp proposal from the devs with great intrest. To say the least this rather than the much advertised JTLS publish seems to me will be a make or break pub for a lot of dedicated SWG players.
I have a very difficult time understanding now after the issues with the Jedi proff are being addressed and may i say its about time that I and every other jedi are now to be wary of TKM's ! omg
First off I have no axe to grind with trhe TKM proff. The one thing I do think is somewhat ridiculos is the fact that a TKM can run up to a Bull Rancor knock him on his behind and pummel him to death. I mean really. I have no way of knowing for a fact but I have a feeling that you guys in development were never really ready for jedi to begin with. It was a nice carrot to place in front of the horse to keep it moving so to speak. I like many others upon unlocking with great expectations were very let down to find out that in reality i had no more ability to do much of anything than a novice scout with a glow stick ! And may I say that at least a scout can negotiate terrain.
The posts I have been reading so far have a lot of positive ways in wich this revamp can go and I really hope trhat the input is taken to heart by the Devs. I for one could care less about some dam hooded robe to wear I am interested in addressing the things that are going to determine if I continue to play this game or not.
1. Conversion Info
2. Lack of Defense against TKM-Fencer etc... Templates
3. Crystals as loot Drops
4. Severe Death penalties into negative millions of xp
Just to name a few. I would really like to be able to once again hunt with my frienda and that would be awesome imo. But please make up your minds. Atr first Jedi needs to be a hermit alone hunt alone be secretive and now the way your setting this patch up more reliant than ever on outside help from other proffesions. So what the hell is it what is your final vision for where you are going with this proff as a whole ?
All of us are waiting to hear your response to where you see this proff going in the long run.
Thank you for your time
Peace
weaponmaster88
Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:26 am
#207
a little bit off topic....but....
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The animations and extra graphics for this are done, but the design and programming is going to push this feature out. We are looking into the balance implications of allowing the ability to actually reflect ranged weapon damage back on your opponents. This is something we are seriously considering, but it will not happen for this publish.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
mind actually giving carbineers a counterattack that the jedi speak of? as of right now we only counterattack on rare occasions, and there is definetly no "counter" in counterattack, it just acts as another weaker dodge. maybe you could look into this when working on jedi counteratack?
Huin
Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:51 am
#208
Ok I was able to get on test center and did some REAL testing here with mind and doc buff plus foods and spices.
FORCE POWERS
Force powers are totally useless agaisnt buffed people. They need work badly. IT took a Force Master like 2 minutes to take a Master Dancer with no buffs to low ham. Really poor damage.
COMBAT
Very important . Polearm AOE attacks are not working. Like spin 3 . Only hits one mob.
Regain consciousness ?? Does this need any explaining? What is the use of regainin conscousness if you lost all your buffs??
Defense tree is useless. If you go defense master with your FS skills your meleedefense is like 115. A tka gets like 200 accuracy. They never miss. We hit 50% of the time. Whydoes a TKA meleemuch better then a Jedi? Please answer.
Battle fatigue and wounds are astronomical in duels. I dueled 2 people and had 1000 battle fatigue and like 200-400 in wounds.(How are we suppsosed to kill 20 people like this?)
Also enhance line of resist states .It does not resist anything . I dueled a CM like 6 times and he hit me with poison everytime. It did not even reduce the damage taken. Total waste of points and it does not do what it says. I looked at my resists to poison and the buf gives you like +15 to poison. I think I can resist the critters outside of coronet starport with this. Its a great feeling to resist a creature that has 200 ham and a 10 dmg weak poison . Total waste of points here.This is just forcing everyone to take the heal line. Can we say cookie cutter.
Bottom line enhance line and force powers need work. Force powers cost too much to use. With Enhance lines draining you and heal lines being more efficient. This leaves force powers in the dark. Enhance in the shade not as bad.