Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Punchlist Feedback
olath
Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:43 am
#183
So basically TKMS are the true bounty hunters of SWG since my ranged attacks are worthless against Jedi, I just dont get why the dev team hates the freaking bounty hunter profession. I have been a BH since launch and my damn profession is still broke and worthless. I guess instead of being able to Role play if i want to have sucess in this game then i need to go do the template that everyone else has; Tkm, Brawler, Fencer. I wish that the dev team would read the BH forums and realize that this is Star Wars not Everquest II. I mean how many punches were thrown in all 5 movies? Bounty Hunters were supposed to be Jedi hunters, but we are worthless POS with weak PVP and way too many skill points. Thank God you guys did the Jedi Revamp, so 1% of the players ae now happy. The Bounty Hunter Population is way more in need of the Jedi Revamp. It has been 1 year Sony and I want to know when do i get my profession fixed???? Why should I continue to play this game if I have to be a toon that I dont even like. I want to be a Bounty Hunter and I want a fair chance against Jedi.
Olath Moonwalker
Scylla/Master BH/pistoleer 1-0-2-3
Dasyra
Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:53 am
#184
Force Wielder Suggestions:
Possibly allow them to break through force defense or lower defenses on enemies. Consider them the anti buff and it can work on anyone which would be a nice wild card in pvp if someone can remove someone's defenses totally from them. A very good support role.
At master force wielder they should pretty much be able to negate any bonus down to zero and make someone totally vulnerable to attack. Interesting choice instead of the defense line, make your enemy weak or try and be defense buffed.
So that TKM/Fencer just lost all his dodge, melee, range, and posture change defenses and might only be left with toughness. That would be a nice skill set to have. =) Make me think about taking it that's for sure.
Rehles
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:08 am
#185
The amount of experience a Jedi needs to grind out needs to be lowered a lot. Drop a 0 off every exp cost in every box in every tree. Jedi should be wary of melee attacks....rediculous. Either lower the amount of exp needed for Jedi by a lot or add block to melee attacks. You could make the same argument for a lot of things. Jedi work vs. reward needs work. If "balance" is the goal, balance it completely. As in exp required for skillls gained.
RanShino
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:14 am
#186
Thunderheart wrote:
Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.
People who melee against a lightsaber lose limbs and die horrible deaths
You have it backwards. Ranged should have the edge.
Chewato
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:33 am
#187
Thunderheart wrote:
26. Hooded Cloaks.
Hooded cloaks (as with all wearables in the game) are far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce than they appear to be. Huge actually. It’s not 1 cloak or 2 cloaks, but somewhere around 120cloaks would have to be produced internally for all Jedi robes to have hoods in the game.Here’s how it breaks down: There are currently 31 unique Jedi Robe Models. For each of those to be hooded, there needs to be a special version for Wookiees, Twilek and Mon Cal’s because of their heads and a version for the rest of the species, except for Trandos which get a special versionbecause oftheir feet. The time and manpower to create 120 cloaks isn't available at this time. We want and will do this in the future, but it is just not possible right now.
How about instead of modifiying every cloak you simple add a hood overlay? Then over time you implemtent the overlays that are done. Each hood could be a seperate item to be equiped (with sockets possibly or maybe even minor storage). This would allow gradual implementation (and possibly resuse of existing artwork.
Olvenskol
Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:45 am
#188
TH said...
16. Move Forcerun1 to Novice Enhancer, it really only adds some terrain negotiation and its silly that Jedi have none to begin with.
No. ... and Jedi can choose terrain negotiation skills along the way if they choose.
----------------
This isn't true though. While a Padawan can have terrain negotiation (from choosing Scout), the Jedi will have to GIVE THIS UP along the way. A full Jedi Knight can only have 5 points of terrain negotiation tops (gotten from the FS survival tree).
This seems very silly... my Jedi Knight that can balance on one-hand while levitating things cannot walk up hills like 80% of the other characters?
My suggestion is to add +5 terrain negotiation to each of the four FS survival boxes, not just the last one. Two of these boxes are completely and utterly useless to EVERYONE anyhow (not just useless to Jedi), so by adding 5 terrain negotiation, these boxes become worth choosing and allows a full Jedi Knight extremely modest abilities to walk uphill (terrain negotiation 20). I can see no way this gives ANYONE an excessive advantage nor does it substantially reduce the value of picking Scout.
Gwenevie.
16. Move Forcerun1 to Novice Enhancer, it really only adds some terrain negotiation and its silly that Jedi have none to begin with.
No. ... and Jedi can choose terrain negotiation skills along the way if they choose.
----------------
This isn't true though. While a Padawan can have terrain negotiation (from choosing Scout), the Jedi will have to GIVE THIS UP along the way. A full Jedi Knight can only have 5 points of terrain negotiation tops (gotten from the FS survival tree).
This seems very silly... my Jedi Knight that can balance on one-hand while levitating things cannot walk up hills like 80% of the other characters?
My suggestion is to add +5 terrain negotiation to each of the four FS survival boxes, not just the last one. Two of these boxes are completely and utterly useless to EVERYONE anyhow (not just useless to Jedi), so by adding 5 terrain negotiation, these boxes become worth choosing and allows a full Jedi Knight extremely modest abilities to walk uphill (terrain negotiation 20). I can see no way this gives ANYONE an excessive advantage nor does it substantially reduce the value of picking Scout.
Gwenevie.
HoTron-rex
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:03 am
#189
Thunderheart wrote:
We will be adding descriptions and final skill point costs to the conversion guide. As it stands, we are still tweaking the conversion rates and may continue to tweak them in the future. We know you are going to evaluate and post them. If we were to post them, it would become canon and we could never change them without massive protest.
Additionally, when lightsabers are deconstructed, the pearls are un-tuned.
Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.
Long standing bug that also effects other professions defense modifiers.
We are investigating this bug.
a few responses to some things here TH. first off lemme say that i'm beyond extatic that you and the rest of the team took the time to answer all these to show us that you're listening. communication is awesome and makes us feel likeour concernesactually are at least getting through. however there are a few items here i cant agree with.
12b - That is a completely contradictory and circular argument. You're telling us that we're going to post it anyway (which is true) but you cant post it yourself? I really dont understand why you cant just post something like "Here are the current conversion numbers, they WILL be changed based upon the feedback of this thread if it is exceptionally negative, OR if we feel that it is unbalancing. All those people who consider a clear statement like this "cannon" are the kind of immature folks who should not be forcing your hand in development. Dont bend to the immature whiners, you'll save the rest of us the need for high blood pressure medication in 5 years if you post stuff like this. The playerbase really wants it cause it makes things SO much easier. Why waste hours upon hours of people's time to compile and figure out this data when a simple post that takes you 15 mins to write could save all of them that time?
15 - I still really dont think you understand the amount of time work and effort that went into obtainint items like -9 FC pearls. For example, a 199 -9 pearl sold for something crazy like 18 million credits on my server.... thats a LOT to have invested into one item. with this new "tuning" system even the best pearls are still midway on the conversoin scale. I forget the exact names of all the "qualities" of damage crystal, but I have yet year tell of a pearl (regardless of dmg, speed, OR force cost) that has converted to anything other than a mid-range on the damage crystal scale. they all seem to come out randomly around +30-40 dmg and -4 to -7 FC and have the same quality rating. nobody has ever seen a damage crystal come from the conversion being the top level quality (again the specific name escapes me) whatsoever even though some of us have spent countless hours getting the best damage crystals in the game thus far. so those of us who planned actively for the future are getting shafted by a random re-roll of our item's stats that puts them only midway up the new scale and further back from where they were previously as far as raw stats goes. now i realize that you're revamping the entire scale, but at least make it so the 199 -9's and similar equate to the top quality damage crystals in the conversion, cause right now they just plain and simple are ALL converting to the same random distribution. and that my friend is a kick in the pants for a majority of investors.
21 - you want meleer's and tka's specifically to be counters to jedi? sure i'm all for that. one problem though, make each of those professions take 6 months to grind (a year if you dont want to go insane), have an xp loss on death that has no negative cap, and impliment a system where players can come and hunt you down for having FUN. if you do that, i'm all for having them counter jedi. the fact that a profession that has no risks and takes 2 days to grind is supposed to counter jedi most poeple consider perposterous. the better solution for a counter to jedi isnt meleer's th, players have been saying this since launch. you have that profession and i feel horrible for them cause they've never been effective since eyeshot was nerfed back in august. BHs should be our counter, NOT meleers. at least they have to go through a tough investigation grind to get to us. and also their profession was MEANT to hunt people. bump them and give us ability to block melee attacks. make everyone happy and end the pissing contest on the hate, i mean bh forums.
23 - all i have to wonder is why didnt you guys know about this sooner? it's been on our you know what list for months now. the majority of the pvp base learned this back during the fencer/pistoleer dodge days cause even they couldnt dodge blind/dizzy/stun/kd... we've known about this for months, and screamed about it too (the whole playerbase, not just jedi) yet it seems as though you guys never knew about it? i mean dont get me wrong, i'm glad you're investigating it (extatic really) but this is the kind of stuff that slips through the communication systems that reallyticks people off and makes them go on unending rants against you guys. please learn from this, please please please
BlueHorizion
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:12 am
#190
You know, I think it all boils down to this.
Now this is something my parents and I'm sure everyone elses parents have taught them at once time or another.
Do it RIGHT the FIRST TIME, and you won't have to worry about it LATER.
Would we really NEED a REVAMP had the devs done Jedi RIGHT the FIRST TIME?
Would PvP need a REVAMP had it be done RIGHT the FIRST TIME?
I can understand small tweaks and patches, but when something is surnamed "Revamp" this intails that something has been done horribly wrong which can only be fixed by a complete overhaul of the mechanics.
My feedback? Fix it for good and you wont need to worry about a "Revamp"
There you go.
Burebista
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:15 am
#191
Only 1 questions for DEVs ... WHY DO YOU CALL PUBLISH 9 JEDI REVAMP ? A BETTER NAME SHOULD BE JEDI NERF !!!!!
Im still hoping this is only a sick joke the Devs 
.
.Stop WASTING 8 month of grinding ... THIS IS REALLY OUTRAGEOUS ... WE GRINDED 8 MONTH AND WASTED OUR TIME AND PAYED ALL THIS TIME TO SOE SO A MELEE FIGHTER WHO GRINDED 2 DAYS FOR A MELEE PROFESSION WOULD OWN US BIG TIME ????
NO ARMOR, NO SABER ACCURACY, NO DEFENCES ...
AT LEAST GIVE UP THOSE STUPID SKILL POINTS AND LET US LEARN ALL 5 FULL TREES.
Like that guy said ... do u think I wasted 8 month of my life just to look cool shooting lighting ????
CyberFett
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:17 am
#192
19. Force Sensitive skills are useless for Jedi.
Example: melee accuracy, melee speed, Healing skills, assembly, healing speed....none of these affect Jedi skills at all yet we are forced to learn them.
Example: melee accuracy, melee speed, Healing skills, assembly, healing speed....none of these affect Jedi skills at all yet we are forced to learn them.
Yes, they are. Basically, this is 20/20 hindsight and a by-product of the conversion. As a character moves through the Jedi process on a normal progression, Force Sensitivity skills are basic enhancements for “regular” characters to simulate Force Sensitivity. At that point, they are great to have. Once a character becomes a Jedi, they have already moved past those skills and in effect developed their Force powers from sensitivities into full blown powers. In essence, you have all moved past this point but everyone will have to go through this phase in the future.
27. Overall skill point requirements need to either be reduced or one tree collapsed.
Having to spend 24 skill points in force sensitive skills that do NOTHING for Jedi and having all skill boxes RAISED in skill cost is a very bad combo.
8,6,4,2 is simply too restrictive. We have jedi coming from a system where you can have all powers, to a system where you can not possibly have even the most basic powers and be viable.
That's just not "fun." This revamp is about what is fun, as much as what is good for the game as a whole.
We aren't looking for overpowered here, but we would like to be able to have viable templates and still have enough points to learn some of the necessities such as Meditate and Force run.
Please lower the skill requirements to 7,5,3,1 which will let Jedi master 2 trees and achieve 4444 in another. This is hardly overpowered, will still allow for great diversification between Jedi, and will discourage dabblers. Please do us this one favor, it is not asking too much.
Absolutely the revamp is about fun. It's also about adding depth and choice to the experience of being a Jedi. Adding additional skill points or reducing the skill costs just further homogenizes Jedi making them all have the same basic abilities. That is completely counter to one of the major goals of this rebalance.
I agree with both of these. But I also see the problem that the restrictive Skill Points are going to do exactlly what you said " just further homogenizes Jedi making them all have the same basic abilities". Because of the restrictive Skill points you will in effect force all Knights to be the same generic template to compete with eachother.
How about a compromise? Once the Jedi has Completed the Knight Trials and has chosen a side (Light or Dark), Allow them to drop the Force sensitive skills to give them back the 24 skill points. This will not only give them additional content after The Knight Trials, other than PvP, it will give more diverse Knight and above Jedis.
What do you think?
Thrasia
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:19 am
#193
Thunderheart wrote:
Here are the questions and the answers:
___________________________
1. XP loss will greatly affect the ability for a Jedi Knight to change their template. There should be a way to retrain skills at the Knight level so that:
A. You don't have to do the trials again just to change a skill
B. The immense amount of negative XP that will happen in PVP will not gate you from retraining.
TH: Experience loss has been changed back and forth a bit. There has to be some death penalty associated with PvP deaths because of the inherent power level of Jedi and also to prevent Jedi from selling their deaths to Bounty Hunters. Without a penalty, it leaves the possibility of a "Death-credit" loop.
However, we are going to remove XP loss for Force Ranked Jedi when they fight each other because it is required to gain rank.
^ This is awful. There should be risk vs. reward for being a FRS jedi. That is why the forced PvP deaths will mean so much more. These FRS will already be uber "cutting swathes through people." Now you want to remove any potential risk to this profession as well. And dont say perma-overt status is a risk. We all know that wont be a problem for any uber-jedi.
________________________________
11. XP loss should have a decay timer. Negative XP should decay some amount every week to help people get back on their feet.
TH: The changes made to mitigate Force Ranked Jedi from losing XP for fighting each other will solve most of that problem. The rest of the problem should be solved by not throwing yourself into the meat-grinder
^ What happened to at least putting on the pretense that being a jedi will be "perilous and difficult". I remember reading the FAQ many times pre-launch and thought to myself about how the Dev team really had a good grasp of Jedi. Man was I seriously mistaken.
___________________________________
13. Robes of all levels should have *some* sort of armor resists. Padawan who are just starting out in the world could use a Robe with some resists. Higher level Jedi Robes should have +resists to certain things like poison/fire/etc.
TH: The Jedi Development team is against balancing these combat features with the robes. We will work to balance resists to poisons/fire/etc. in a different manner and report back to you.
^ Sure, why not? I recall watching Episode 2 and specifically seeing Mace Windu's "jedi robes" catch on fire quite easily. Unless you tell me that these swg player jedi are more powerful than Mace Windu, I cant comprehend why jedi robes should have these resists. Please enlighten me.
______________________________
14. Master Healing should be able to cure a firedot.
TH: Done.
^ Again, why is no one who makes a Star Wars game watching, uh, Star Wars?? Mace Windu was clearly afraid of Jango's flamethrower. He /forceran/jumped the heck out of there, clothes on fire and all. Why should jedi be impervious to every single thing in the game?
________________________
21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.
TH: Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not "scrappers" and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range. This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.
^ I still dont understand why BH's are given jedi missions then. We wont be able to do anything to jedi except provide amusement.
__________________________
22. Polearm saber is superior to the other 2 sabers in everyway given the +100 speed rating at master. This means that every Jedi will be using one for the most part. Please bring the other 2 sabers up to par.
TH: We have been testing this internally. All three sabers will have similar appeal and functionality and we will see even more balance to this issue in the Combat balance. Once the speed formula is altered in the Combat Balance, a Jedi will have the choice of a slower, heavier hitting saber or a quicker lower damage lightsaber. Another factor is special choice, while different Jedi may prefer a body hit while others may prefer the mind hits.
^ I recall you saying, while describing the combat rebalance, that targeted HAM attacks will no longer be such a big deal....specifically targeting the mind. Are we to take from this that Jedi will be exempt from the new combat resitrictions in the upcoming nerf?
___________________________
26. Hooded Cloaks. Yes its not going to kill anyone if we can't have a hooded cloak, but they are intrinsic to the look and feel of Jedi, and we've been teased with pictures of Jedi in them since pre-release. Can you just give tailors the ability to craft these darn things? 1 per species model if needed... There's no reason only a Jedi should be able to wear a simple cloak with a hood, and more people running around in them will help us hide ourselves.
The desire for hooded cloaks will never go away.
TH: Hooded cloaks (as with all wearables in the game) are far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce than they appear to be. Huge actually. It’s not 1 cloak or 2 cloaks, but somewhere around 120 cloaks would have to be produced internally for all Jedi robes to have hoods in the game. Here’s how it breaks down: There are currently 31 unique Jedi Robe Models. For each of those to be hooded, there needs to be a special version for Wookiees, Twilek and Mon Cal’s because of their heads and a version for the rest of the species, except for Trandos which get a special version because of their feet. The time and manpower to create 120 cloaks isn't available at this time. We want and will do this in the future, but it is just not possible right now.
^ Yes, lets dedicate even more Dev time to the Jedi system for cloaks. A project that will be "far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce." I know hooded cloaks are VERY important to a majority of the player base..HUGE actually.../end sarcasm.
Thrasia
IlyaMasool
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:24 am
#194
GuanYing wrote:
Burr wrote:
I keep seeing this repeated but I have yet to see anyone actually point to any official text stating this as fact. I'm a TKA and would gladly accept this role if it is canon, I just have yet to see any proof. As one that really would like to see more continuity in this game I would appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction. Everything I have seen in SWG canon about TKA is about 5 paragraphs and none of it relating to keeping Jedi in check.
Bountyhunter wrote:
Teras Kasi are in the cannon watchdogs of the Jedi Council...
and serve on thier own council thats only job is to keep the all powerful jedi in check..
in the cannon TKM are pretty much FS.. but they use it differntly than Jedi do...
I do agree that TKM to fit in the cannon should be almost as points intensive as BH as it should be a super elite profession.. dabblers in TKM and defence stackers are completely unbalacing specially Med line dabblers....
I really think its cool that the devs are using such a little known profession like TKM to be the jedi counter exactly as it was in the books..
but again this should be a special damage from TKM only.... like lightsaber only for TKM only so that stops uber dabblers from making jedi killers with the uber FOTM defence/melee template.
I agree with you on this one. I never knew TKA were supposed to watch over the jedi... Actually, the place I'm pretty sure Teras Kasi came from was Steve Perry's book Shadows of the Empire... I'm sure star wars fanatics know of it, but in that book it only made passing reference to Teras Kasi artists, and certainly nothing that indicated they were supposed to be oversight monitors for the council.
If there's anything in the books about TKA being meant to keep the council from getting out of line, it was some freelance author inventing new ideas. Just like the cortosis being used in mandalorian armor and being able to resist lightsabers...
I am not so sure how official this is, but if you look at the Lucasarts web site, they do have this mentioned.
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/masters/
Sure it might be something they have just recently cooked up to sell more games, but then again this whole Star Wars is something they cooked up orginally to sell a movie. And if anyone has saying in what goes "officially" in Star Wars universe, I'd say Lucas has that right.
There is a FANTASTIC site dedicated to just this topic at
http://www.teraskasi.net/about_tk.html
I've learn LOT about TKM there. More than I really wanted to know.
Kai_Skywalker
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:45 am
#195
Great feedback. It is nice to see the level of communication improving in these forums (Jedi and Smuggler feedback/discussion especially).
I had a few thoughts on the diversity aspect you the developers are aiming for.
The problem
As it stands diversity between Jedi is not very pronounced with many opting for two trees in healing, master lightsaber and master enhancer (or defender depending on where the *best* skills are placed!)
At the movies
According to Star Wars lore one of the things that diversified Jedi was their style of lightsaber combat as can be seen on this page, The seven forms of lightsaber combat
I'll sum up these forms here:
Form 1 - Basic combat training
Movie evidence - The "younglings" in Episode 2 with their practice sabers, Luke in Episode 4 on board the Falcon
Form 2 - "The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat...producing the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen."
This form was based on expected confrontation with lightsaber wielding enemies and as such became an archaic form by the time of the Old Republic (Episodes 1 and 2)
Movie evidence - Count Dooku, a form 2 practitioner, beating Obi-Wan and Anakin and holding his own against Master Yoda
Form 3 - Contrary to form 2 this form was developed as a result of blaster technology becoming more widespread and Jedi needed a way to defend against them. Characterised by "blaster-bolt deflection"
Movie evidence - Obi-Wan, a form 3 practitioner, fighting Jango Fett on Camino
Form 4 - The "acrobatic" style. Heavy emphasis on using the Force to enhance ones abilities; speed and reflexes as well as abilities that transcend what is normally physically possible eg jumps and spins.
Movie evidence - Master Yoda v Count Dooku in Episode 2
Forms 5,6 and 7 are pretty much developments/amalgamations of other styles and don't require much scrutiny in my post
A proposed solution
To put it simply why not pepper the Jedi skill trees with mods that will affect lightsaber combat and reflect the various styles utilised by the Jedi.
In more detail:
I know the logical place to put these mods would be in the lightsaber tree but that won't encourage diversity and it would make no sense whatsoever to put them in the healing tree, so...
In the defender tree have mods that will increase/positively affect lightsaber defence against ranged attacks. This would reflect form 3 of the saber styles. Things like blaster-bolt blocking should get significant bonuses whereas as bolt-deflection (if it were to be implemented) would only get limited bonuses, after all Obi-Wan couldn't deflect Jango's shots back at him. There may also be ranged defense modifiers arising from the combat balance that could also go in the defender tree.
My hope is that this will appeal to the players who are concerned about Bounty Hunters and/or those players that do not want to participate in the FRS. However they will remain vulnerable to melee attacks which (should) include lightsaber to lightsaber combat
Next, in the enhance tree put in some mods that will increase/positively affect melee combat. This would reflect form 2 of the saber styles. I know this goes against the original intention but this should inlcude melee defense mods including any that may arise from the combat balance.
I envision this option being popular with those players taking part in the FRS but on the negative side leaving them vulnerable to Bounty Hunters as they lack the ranged defense modifiers the defense tree provides.
At this point Jedi will have a choice; take the ranged defense mods for protection against Bounty Hunters and the severe xp loss associated with dying to a non-Jedi whilst handicapping their chances in lightsaber combat vs other Jedi, or take the melee defense mods for better chances in lightsaber duels and thus faster advancement in the FRS but no added protection against the severe xp loss of dying to a non-Jedi.
Now throw in a third option; simulation of form 4 of the saber styles...
In the force powers tree add some mods that increase the chance of dodge along with defense mods vs state attacks, things like stun, dizzy etc. This should be a small increase for all states or a large increase for a selection of states. Rationale; a Jedi using form 4 would be using the Force to move about to the extent that he or she would be a blur and thus very difficult to hit. Also at the higher levels of this tree (maybe master only) should be mods that increase the frequency of lightsaber attacks, again a reflection of the Jedi using the Force to enhance their combat prowess. The offset of taking this "combat style" would be the loss of key skills and stats available in the other trees; eg Jedi toughness, /avoidIncapacitation, /forceArmour and so on
Conclusion
Encourage diversity through simulation of lightsaber combat styles.
In the defence tree:
Add ranged defense mods for better "blaster-bolt blocking" and possibly "blaster-bolt deflection".
Saber combat form #3
Benefits:
Consequences:
In the enhance tree:
Add melee defence mods resulting in better defences against sabers.
Saber combat form #2
Benefits:
Consequences:
One potential drawback here is if TKM's become a viable threat to Jedi after the combat balance then the benefits of "form #3" become less pronounced as there would be severe xp loss from dying to a TKM. My solution: if it is possible to negate xp loss from dying to a Jedi then surely it is possible to having more xp loss from dying to a Bounty Hunter.
In the powers tree:
Add mods for better dodge as well as defence vs state effects. Possibly add lightsaber speed mods at the higher end/master box
Saber combat form #4
Benefits:
Consequences:
OK, I am probably overlooking some glaringly important detail, flame away...
I had a few thoughts on the diversity aspect you the developers are aiming for.
The problem
As it stands diversity between Jedi is not very pronounced with many opting for two trees in healing, master lightsaber and master enhancer (or defender depending on where the *best* skills are placed!)
At the movies
According to Star Wars lore one of the things that diversified Jedi was their style of lightsaber combat as can be seen on this page, The seven forms of lightsaber combat
I'll sum up these forms here:
Form 1 - Basic combat training
Movie evidence - The "younglings" in Episode 2 with their practice sabers, Luke in Episode 4 on board the Falcon
Form 2 - "The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat...producing the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen."
This form was based on expected confrontation with lightsaber wielding enemies and as such became an archaic form by the time of the Old Republic (Episodes 1 and 2)
Movie evidence - Count Dooku, a form 2 practitioner, beating Obi-Wan and Anakin and holding his own against Master Yoda
Form 3 - Contrary to form 2 this form was developed as a result of blaster technology becoming more widespread and Jedi needed a way to defend against them. Characterised by "blaster-bolt deflection"
Movie evidence - Obi-Wan, a form 3 practitioner, fighting Jango Fett on Camino
Form 4 - The "acrobatic" style. Heavy emphasis on using the Force to enhance ones abilities; speed and reflexes as well as abilities that transcend what is normally physically possible eg jumps and spins.
Movie evidence - Master Yoda v Count Dooku in Episode 2
Forms 5,6 and 7 are pretty much developments/amalgamations of other styles and don't require much scrutiny in my post
A proposed solution
To put it simply why not pepper the Jedi skill trees with mods that will affect lightsaber combat and reflect the various styles utilised by the Jedi.
In more detail:
I know the logical place to put these mods would be in the lightsaber tree but that won't encourage diversity and it would make no sense whatsoever to put them in the healing tree, so...
In the defender tree have mods that will increase/positively affect lightsaber defence against ranged attacks. This would reflect form 3 of the saber styles. Things like blaster-bolt blocking should get significant bonuses whereas as bolt-deflection (if it were to be implemented) would only get limited bonuses, after all Obi-Wan couldn't deflect Jango's shots back at him. There may also be ranged defense modifiers arising from the combat balance that could also go in the defender tree.
My hope is that this will appeal to the players who are concerned about Bounty Hunters and/or those players that do not want to participate in the FRS. However they will remain vulnerable to melee attacks which (should) include lightsaber to lightsaber combat
Next, in the enhance tree put in some mods that will increase/positively affect melee combat. This would reflect form 2 of the saber styles. I know this goes against the original intention but this should inlcude melee defense mods including any that may arise from the combat balance.
I envision this option being popular with those players taking part in the FRS but on the negative side leaving them vulnerable to Bounty Hunters as they lack the ranged defense modifiers the defense tree provides.
At this point Jedi will have a choice; take the ranged defense mods for protection against Bounty Hunters and the severe xp loss associated with dying to a non-Jedi whilst handicapping their chances in lightsaber combat vs other Jedi, or take the melee defense mods for better chances in lightsaber duels and thus faster advancement in the FRS but no added protection against the severe xp loss of dying to a non-Jedi.
Now throw in a third option; simulation of form 4 of the saber styles...
In the force powers tree add some mods that increase the chance of dodge along with defense mods vs state attacks, things like stun, dizzy etc. This should be a small increase for all states or a large increase for a selection of states. Rationale; a Jedi using form 4 would be using the Force to move about to the extent that he or she would be a blur and thus very difficult to hit. Also at the higher levels of this tree (maybe master only) should be mods that increase the frequency of lightsaber attacks, again a reflection of the Jedi using the Force to enhance their combat prowess. The offset of taking this "combat style" would be the loss of key skills and stats available in the other trees; eg Jedi toughness, /avoidIncapacitation, /forceArmour and so on
Conclusion
Encourage diversity through simulation of lightsaber combat styles.
In the defence tree:
Add ranged defense mods for better "blaster-bolt blocking" and possibly "blaster-bolt deflection".
Saber combat form #3
Benefits:
- Increased defenses against Bounty Hunters
- Less chance of "severe xp loss" as a result of dying to non-Jedi
Consequences:
- Advancement through FRS ranks handicapped when compared to form #2
In the enhance tree:
Add melee defence mods resulting in better defences against sabers.
Saber combat form #2
Benefits:
- Increased defenses against lightsaber attacks
- Faster advancement through FRS (more likely to kill than be killed)
Consequences:
- Maintained vulnerability to Bounty Hunters
- No added protection against "severe xp-loss" when compared to form #3
One potential drawback here is if TKM's become a viable threat to Jedi after the combat balance then the benefits of "form #3" become less pronounced as there would be severe xp loss from dying to a TKM. My solution: if it is possible to negate xp loss from dying to a Jedi then surely it is possible to having more xp loss from dying to a Bounty Hunter.
In the powers tree:
Add mods for better dodge as well as defence vs state effects. Possibly add lightsaber speed mods at the higher end/master box
Saber combat form #4
Benefits:
- Jedi will be more difficult to hit in melee as well as ranged combat
Consequences:
- Sacrifice of the more "popular" skills and stats
OK, I am probably overlooking some glaringly important detail, flame away...
