Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-17 Star Wars Galaxies Combat Profession Mix and Match

aazatgrabya
Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:46 am
#196






malphisto wrote:


...I also read people talking about the HAM attacks. I agree that the health bar should be the only one to cause death. The action should slow down the attacker, and the mind should make them lose accuracy, and both should lower their defense as well...







I think the HAM attacks should stay as they are. I'm a rifleman, so when I'm prone and get shot my mind is the first to go. Surely it's acceptable to be incapped by having a constant barrage against your head? Equally, your Action bar represents stamina. Should you stay fighting strong with constant damage to your limbs?


Regarding the speed of the attack, you do slow down when you do not have athe action points to perform the tasks. When you recieve a wound on your Quickness I always imagined your attack speed was reduced. Perhaps someone can confirm that. Even so, when your Stamina and Willpower are attacked your regeneration rate is reduced. So overall I think it works quite well.


Saying all that, Malphisto,there are some nice thoughtsthere. I especially like the close proximity damage to the Flame.
owennn
Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:06 pm
#197

Rifleman:

It appears that riflemen are supposed to be the long range support class. To that end I would expect them to:

1.) Be able to pin opponents at long range (62m is a bad joke) so that melee and pistoleers could swoop in and issue the coup de grace.

2.) Be able to identify and remove "lead" elements such as SL. Maybe some sort of SL auto-targeting.


Squad Leaders:

1.) Be able to buff groups more than they do now.

2.) Volley fire specials.

3.) Auto volley fire in support of nearest attacker on group. Say right click on a given group member in the group list and be able to volley fire at the nearest attacking opponent. I get tired of crying out for my groups to help a given guy, it would be nice to just *do* it.
Ytsniea-culsin
Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:22 pm
#198

Cut the basic novice skill boxes down to 10 points, that will save a few more for other skills without having to add more points for everyone. Masters should have significantly better abilities than "dabblers".



I gotta have more cowbell.
ArkonPhoenix
Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:44 pm
#199


-What do you think the strengths of professions mix and match are?
The stengths I see from mix and match are people who dabble and get the skills that help them most with what there trying to do. SOme see this as bad.


-What do you think the weaknesses of professions mix and match are?
No weakness yet, although there should be.


-How do you think we should maintain the unique skillset flavor the game is built on?
Make the payoff for any proffession be when your make Master.


-What are some neat combinations that would be good for the game?
Unfortunately there are no what I would call neat combinations in this game since each profession has built-it skills and stats. You really dont have flexability in this.


-Anything else you want to say on this subject?
I would like to see the Skill and Professions get sperated (although this would be a rework of the code, so I doubt it). For example, make it where you can put skill points into Dodge as a skill and then points into Smuggler as a profession. Try to follow the template used in the True Roleplaying D20 system made by WOTC, just check out how detailed there character sheet is here:


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/charactersheet


Thanks





I just hit a bunch of buttons and hope everything works out.

Click here for "Arkon’s Ideas and Suggestions for SWG".
JulesWindu
Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:08 pm
#200

What do you think the strengths of professions mix and match are?


Ok, coming from an artisan background, I have to say that mix and match is great. I love being able to sell what I make and still go mix it up a little every once in a while.


What do you think the weaknesses of professions mix and match are?


Well, so many. I've given up on PvP. There is no way to compete with those who have mastered two or three combat professions. Granted, I really shouldn't expect to do much with my few pistoleer skills, but I can't really fight much in PvE either. Everything is either too easy or too hard.


How do you think we should maintain the unique skillset flavor the game is built on?


Well, just let it happen. Don't change it unless public outcry demands so. Many ask for more points for more professions, but please don't listen. We don't need more uber-l33t than we already have.


What are some neat combinations that would be good for the game?


I would like to see a smuggler and pilot profession. Also a mechanic or vehicle engineer profession. Not so much a Star Wars type profession, I would like to see a slicer/hacker thing, like a computer engineer. That could be cool. Also, make languages worth something again. A translator droid needs something to translate! Sorry, off topic.


Anything else you want to say on this subject?


Nope. Just bring on more professions I say. And one more thing...Continuity be damned! Make Jedi easier to get! Make it so your character can dabble in the force. We need to do away with the FSCS! Let me create a character that can use the force and be a master tailor if I so choose. There has to be a way that PC's can be untrained Force wielders and experience the game in all of its facets! Be creative and come up with a solution! I've got a few ideas if you want to hear them.
Limbonik
Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:07 pm
#201

to hell with Jedi, bring back the farming profession. I wanna be a moisture farmer already.



Limbonik
Imperial Inquisitor :: Darksider Historian
Remember the Fallen


emo-kor
Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:50 pm
#202






malphisto wrote:


I didn’t read all the posts so sorry if I might be repeating someone else’s opinion.


The only thing good about it is the ability of each player to be able to have different attacks and defenses for different situations. Unfortunately some of the class’s are way to powerful against others and with mixing and matching you can create the perfect fighting charter in a very short time. For example a Master Teras Kasi can knock anyone down every time if they get the first hit or rush them and be able to keep them down until their dead. Where as a Master Commando has to move in close to do decent damages, with no posture changing attacks, unless they unarm themselves and go hand to hand, or use a less effective weapon. Having to only master the unarmed brawler to get to the teras kasi tree it would leave you the ability to also master a second elite class that is non-combat. The master commando has to master the same unarmed brawler class, but also has to master the marksman class to get to the commando tree. In PvP a master teras kasi can easily rush and defeat a master commando do to the ability to knock them down and keep them there. Then there’s the bounty hunter that you have to master two classes to get to the BH tree and is getting nurfed all the time. In PvP a 4/4/4/4 teras kasi can beat a 4/4/4/4 commando or a 4/4/4/4 bounty hunter every time and yet has mastered no classes. There’s something wrong with that. I was out with a master teras kasi the other day and watched him do 1000 damage every ½ second, where as I’m a commando only doing 1000 every 2 seconds against the same creature that had no armor rating. In a two week period a new charter can master teras kasi for fighting and a crafting class for money, and be basically unbeatable against other combat professions that take longer to master, and don’t have the skill points to get a crafting class.


I might be wrong, but mixing classes should be for using the different attacks against the different weakness of each opponent. A bounty hunter specializes in 1on1 combat, and should be at least as powerful if not more against a teras kasi. Ranged classes should be able to hit and run, or stay at a distance, and brawler class should be for when an opponent rush’s them, not the other way around. This is a good scenario for a brawler; in PvP the opponent deploys a pet and has him attack. The brawler would use his skill to defeat the creature, then switch to a ranged weapon to take out the opponent. This would give the opponent the advantage for taking the time to master more that one class like creature handler and what ever ranged weapon or brawler class they have chosen. A brawler class should have to disarm attack, so they would have to disarm the ranged weapon before using his skill to defeat them.


To be fair to the brawler classes, weapons like a flame-thrower should cause damage to the user in close quarter battles. So that it would require them to have close range weapons, like pistols or unarmed as well. It should be an advantage to have to master more than one class, not a disadvantage.


I also read people talking about the HAM attacks. I agree that the health bar should be the only one to cause death. The action should slow down the attacker, and the mind should make them lose accuracy, and both should lower their defense as well.


Sorry about ripping on the TKA, but come on, you see it too outside the starport.








Once they fix dizy and the rest of the combat professions, also add the ham changes, this wont be an issue.


Also Here is what you do as a comando from my experence. Usually when in battle you start out of range and approch range, this can be difficult considering flame needs to be 16m away for specials. Start out with health shot running twords them then use supression to change them to kneal. Next go to flame and hit em and get the dot on them. Stay close and when after the dot starts ticking use warcry. BAMN!10 seconds where they cant heal, itusually results in incap and death.


Rorenikibi
Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:20 am
#203


Thunderheart wrote:


What do you think the strengths of professions mix and match are?


The ability to expand the diversity of the gaming universe by creating an infinite number of possible combinations of professions. The ability to create a fairly independant or interdependant character based on whether your style of play is more solo or group oriented.


What do you think the weaknesses of professions mix and match are?


The main weakness is that it allows the creation and dominance of so-called min/max templates that are designed to optimize the performance of a given character above and beyond the intended limits of the system.


How do you think we should maintain the unique skillset flavor the game is built on?


By ensuring that those aspects of a characters skills and statistics crossing over from one profession to another blend with some semblence of logic. That the combination of skills that can occur are handled with the overall impact of the game environment kept first and foremost in mind. The nature of the last major revamp of the Creature Handler profession is a prime example of this kind of logic applied in the overall game environment. It is entirely possible to become proficient as a Creature Handler as a Master or a dabbler without the kind of imbalance that existed before the revamp where the vast majority of the CH profession's strength could be obtained without major investment of Skill Points in the profession.


What are some neat combinations that would be good for the game?


Doctor/TKA is hugely popular. TKA/Rifleman is another. Pistoleer/Smuggler, Pistoleer/BH, Carbineer/BH are popular combinations for effective firepower with logical crossover of defensive and offensive modifiers. Ranger/BH for the Jedi Hunters. Doctor/Combat Medic is absolutely lethal in PvP. CH/Carbineer/Ranger, CH/Rifleman/Rangers make for very effective PvE hunters. Squad Leader/Rifleman, Carbineer or Pistoleer makes an exceptional unit leader. My own template of CH 0,0,1,1/Commando 0,0,4,0/Squad Leader 4,1,1,0 allows me to perform very well in group PvP or in solo/group PvE, though I suffer dependence on Medic healing or Doctor buffs for the lack of Novice Medic. And any of the combinations above can be made virtually self sufficient with the minimal investment of 15 skill points in Medic.


Anything else you want to say on this subject?


The system at its core is fundamentally sound, there are simply some issues with crossover bonuses which need to be addressed in the ongoing effort to negate the domination of min/max template fighters.





Captain Janu Hull CFA-7
In the event of an emergency, this pilot's ego may be used as a floatation device.


Ldwater
Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:49 am
#204

- What do you think the strengths of professions mix and match are?


The strengths of professions mixing and matching are obvious: In combat, the ability to tactically change and react to your environment and your enemy. In none combat, eg crafting, is the ability to diversify and try to satisfy different markets. Simply the ability to do more than one thing is an advantage in itself.

What do you think the weaknesses of professions mix and match are?


Well, the weaknesses are you get what you pay for. If you dabble in alot of professions, you wont get all the advantages it holds, but if you Master a few, you get everything. The only weakness of profession mixing is really a case of what you DONT have over what you do have, eg a melee player not having a ranged profession.


- How do you think we should maintain the unique skillset flavor the game is built on?


IMO the devs decision to remove stacking in the game is a step foward. The stacking system just means that everyone will follow the uber template, rather than there own unique play style. Each profession should excel in areas others do not, and therefore hold unqiue and interesting advantages and disadvantages. These professions would then be used to reflect peoples play styles. For example, I am Heavy Swordsman / Master Doctor. My advantages would be my heavy damage dealing, but disadvantage would be that I have low ranged defence. For this, I compensate with armour and my doctor profession.


- What are some neat combinations that would be good for the game?


Any combination of profession should be good, that is the core of any game: Choice! Every profession mix should hold some advantage to some players play style, rather than one pre-set combination which everyone wants.


- Anything else you want to say on this subject?


I really hope that each profession has its own unique abilities, advantages & disadvantages. Once this in itself is completed, i believe that SWG will improve drastically for everyone!



-ldwater
Bitto
Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:46 am
#205

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=109847

Proof enough that templates need to be 'adjusted' significantly.
kruschev666
Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:39 am
#206

I guess I am in the minority but I think its wrong for classes to be changed. People work a long time towards one particular class and then when it is changed they have to drop it and relearn a whole new series of skills. I think it would eliminate a lot of problems if people were not so limited by skill points. If a person is willing to put a lot of time into making their character powerful, the character should be truely powerful. If i learned commando, I should not lose all my commando abilities because I decided to learn to be a creature handler.


I think the classes are fine how they are and are pretty well balanced. I have been playing this game from the beginning and I have noticed that people will never stop complaining about unblance. There will always be unbalance and that is how things should be. Life is not balanced. I think the game would be more fun though without the limit of skill points. My character is 100% dedicated to combat but occasionaly I would like to take time away from that and learn some artisan or entertainer abilities. I can not do that though because I would have to drop the fighting skills that I worked on for so much time. I just think the limit of skill points is rediculous and takes away a person's desire to play this game long term. Why should a person continue to build up thier character when they have maxed all the abilities they set out to learn? I know I will not drop the skills I had my heart set on learning.






Uwe'Yawe Bet'no'Sofit
Sith
Bloodfin
IanJames Shortt
Domestics Trader
Bloodfin
Korkaivu
Spy
Tarquinas
Ceraphim
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:06 am
#207

Make the master boxes worth all the effort put forth in mastering that specific skill.


ie, mastering medic or ID takes a day, on the other hand, macroeing CH for a week straight will not get you even close to mastering it.
play_nice
Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:47 pm
#208

Seems like the game doesn't have a atack, counter attack feel to it. Currently, it is spam the specials and hope for the best. I think it should be more, "oh crap that guy just used a strong, long distance attack, i need to do something to defend/counter.


Maybe that is getting too strat, i don't knwo. But I for one think it would be more fun that way.



Soule - Intrepid
MYTH Inc








If you can't beat 'em, go write a long whiney post about them.
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