Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Publish 8.2 Feedback: Death Watch Bunker

FaceInTheCrowd
Tue May 25, 2004 10:00 pm
#183






Meowkitty wrote:

I'm curious as to what the feedback from the test center was on this dungeon. Did anyone there manage to complete a single piece of armor?





The TC feedback was pretty much the same as what you've seen from the live servers today.


The jetpack was never crafted.

No Mandalorian armor was ever crafted.

The place was laggy with a group of 20 players.

There were opportunities for griefing noted.

The respawn rates were too fast.

Loot drop rates were extremely low.

No way to buff once inside the bunker and running the place took longer than a set of buffs would last.


Do any of those comments sound familiar?




Vredak - Elder BH/Elder Carbineer of TC | Vre'dak - Elder Swordsman/TK Elder of TC
Vred'ak - Elder Smuggler/Elder Pistoleer of TC

Ras'beema - Old School MBH of Intrepid | Xarlys - Elder Commando/Elder Carbineer of Ahazi
Proud to be a Resident of TC
TheNarcis
Tue May 25, 2004 10:18 pm
#184






Imaridril wrote:





Thunderheart wrote:


What is your opinion of this new adventure zone?





Until you guys get around to doing the combat rebalance, all you end up doing by added new content like the DWB is to anger more and more players. Its impossible to scale the difficulty of the dungeon properly when some combat proffessions are extremely overpowered while at the same timeothers are laughably weak.







That sums it up perfectly!





- Malak Draven
Ffolks
Tue May 25, 2004 10:20 pm
#185

I've been trying for two weeks to get a complete set of the BH armor together in preperation. I've found two, TWO, spawns in all that time and have one piece so far. Granted I only play a few hours every other night or so, but still. Given the tone of this thread, by the time I do get a full set together everyone will have given up on it. Either that or I'll be completely bored with the game and quit because all I do is logon, buff, search Yavin IV till buffs run out then logoff. Great fun that.



Ffolks
- MBH since 11/03
- Master Carbineer
- Smugglers Alliance Pilot (4444)
Bria
Jedimastert
Tue May 25, 2004 10:21 pm
#186

Ok SWG has been the only MMO I have played to date. I suppose one of my biggestproblems with this game in general (as a casual player), and the Death Watch addition specifically is this.


Why do
ArkanIrami
Tue May 25, 2004 10:22 pm
#187

Patch notes for May 26:


-Redeployed SBDs in the Death Watch Bunker in an effort to cut down on number of "soloers".

-Nerfed commando, correspondent issue.



Arkan Irami, Retired MSF Co-Leader
BabyRancor
Tue May 25, 2004 10:28 pm
#188






Tsalmaveth wrote:



<snip for length>


A very good analysis of the things you'd need here. Good tactical suggestions.






The only problem here is that in addition to all this, as far as anyone knows, once a piece of Mandalorian has been crafted the whole group is ejected from the dungeon. You'd have to go back in and through everything all over again for each and every piece of armour.


I know lots of self-sacrificing people - but that level of preparation 9 times for just one suit that only4 professions can use is a little much to ask.


I doubt I'll be going to the DWB at any point. There's nothing in there that I have any interest in fighting and nothing in there that I have any interest in doing or getting.


The trend toward super-powerful mobs in these dungeons to provide high-level content concerns me. All this leads to is long static fights with huge groups. This is not dynamic or interesting - as many responses in this thread point out.


The key issue that the DWB highlights to me is this: high-level content in this game needs to be more than throw-away. For analysis look at the following:


  • Warren - good story, good difficulty for mid-level players. Replay value is pretty close to nil. You go once or twice, get your badges and that's it. The Warren is pretty empty these days.



  • Geonosian Cave - no story really, good difficulty for high-end players, great amount of loot. Replay value is minimal. Campers like to stay there to collect the loot, groups like to fight through to Acklay a few times, but I think most people have "been there done that" by now. The sheer amount and utility of loot available is the real saving grace for this piece of content.



  • Corvette missions - decent story, neat preliminary missions (good use of existing POIs), way too hard for all but the most elite players to fight through - way too easy to run through (destroy mission), loot ismosty undesirable (AV-21 excepted) and really rare considering it's a group mission. This content is completely dead-ended. Most people don't go, many don't go back, and the few that like it will eventually tire of it.



  • DWB - minimal story, difficulty is...uhh...extreme, general loot is poor but the special loot is really desireable - the same rarity problem though, there's no good reason for 24 of 33 professions to even go to the bunker. Even though this dungeon only opened today it's plain to see that this will soon become underutilised as well. A select few powergamer groupswill throw themselves at it as many times as need be, but most will go once or twice and not return.

Content from this point on, including in JtL, MUST focus on continually renewable systems. Crafting is such a system - a crafter can continually ply his trade and not reach "the end" of his profession. Combat needs to be the same. Ideas such as territorial control in the GCW support this goal.


In summary, if this is the last dungeon publish focused on the elite player - that's fine. The Hutt casino has a lot to live up to in providing content for the largely ignored majority of the player base (in terms of these content mini-publishes). If the ISD "dungeon" is a return to the elite-level difficulty it will be very discouraging.


I don't know if any of the Devs played PnP RPGs, but if so:


1. Consider the interest level generated by a DM bringing home a module from the store, plunking it down and saying "ok, you're at the entrance to a mysterious dungeon...hee hee...you guys should see what's in here <insert maniacal laughter>".


2. Contrast that with a skillful DM weaving that same module into the existing story arc (the backstory of the world at large), giving the players compelling role-playing reasons to go there, carefully adjusting the module to cater to the skills of all players in the group (giving thenon-fighter typescritical things to do that add to the group experience), and overall making sure the players get a stiff challenge, one that they can surely overcome andhave a lasting impact on the world.


We are currently in the former scenario, interesting and fun gameplay (and therefore renewed subscriptions) lies closer to the latter. We all play RPGs to feel like heros in the world we play in - not to feel like another faceless number in a group whose presence is easily replaced by someone else with a weapon.




Jakkin Darkstrider - Master Rifleman/ Master TKA - Sunrunner
"This utopia seems to be more of a Fruitopia"


Combat Balance Proposal Discussion
Jedi Quest System Proposal
Chickenlad
Tue May 25, 2004 10:31 pm
#189

Pfft, wouldn't waste my time/money/armor/buffs going to this nuthouse for another broken sandstat loot drop.



But, I must say, I HUGELY APPLAUD the fixing of the overhead map and labels showing vendors, etc, so that everything isn't stacked on top of each other. Spending time and fixing things like this (errors, bugs, things that have existed far too long and shouldn't) - well, when I see these things fixed, it gives me hope.



P.S. Whoever came up with the idea for imp NPC reactions when you spit/slap/etc them, should be given a promotion. Not too often I laugh in this game, but damn, that's a great easter egg.


Jedimastert
Tue May 25, 2004 10:44 pm
#190


Ok SWG has been the only MMO I have played to date. I suppose one of my biggestproblems with this game in general (as a casual player), and the Death Watch addition specifically is this.


Why do you Devs spend so much time and energy on adding things to this game that so few people will be able to take advantage of and enjoy? I have ben reading what it takes to get Mandalorian Armor and the Jetpack. Looting random black sun people who are no where near the bunker to get armor pieces. Next a laundry list of parts that will take weeks of camping at the bunker to acquire or tens of millions of credits to purchase if you can find them for sale. Last is the kicker. You need to smuggle in a master Droid Engineer, Armorsmith and Tailor into this den of death and they have like 30 seconds (ok I am exagerating it is 5 mins I hear) to turn this jumble of parts into Mandalorion Armor and a jet pack at a special crafting station???


I hear on my server there isn't even a full suit of RIS armor (not even scattered among many people). This Madalorion Armor thing is going to be just as bad. In the Corvette 10 people can get a schematic for an AV-21 and there is only ever 1 engine part per instance? Hello??? We need to do a 1 hour mission 10 times to get everyone their engine part???


Why do you even announce this stuff. You hype these new "dungeons" and the new neat stuff in them and then we need a special cosmic alignment to even have a chance of getting the parts for them let alone having a finished product.


I understand the need to challenge peoplewith elite combat professions, 80% armor, doc buffs, spice, food, doctor buddies in tow, krayt enhanced/night sister lotted super cannons, and a guild full of buddies similarly equiped. You also have us guys out there who don't get to play as much and who don't have or don't want to team up with 300+ people to raid a dungeon every day for weeks to maybe get 1 piece of loot required for the neat new "content".


Could you Devs perhaps make some dungeons that have some neat stories in them and scaled back new neat stuff for us casual type players to participate in.
Grhin
Tue May 25, 2004 10:49 pm
#191

My Feedback, and I think it would help tremendously if this was implemented:


1) The droids need to drop loot. They take an enormous amount of time to destroy, so there should be a reward. As it is, they drop nothing. This very badly needs to be changed. Anything that consumes so much time to destroy needs to have a reward other than it being out of the way, especially with respawn rates so high.


2)The Super Battle Droids are out of control.I don't think there is a player out there who doesn't agree with me on this. They take 20 minutes for a group of 15 firing non stop. Taking one on is a waste of time, but they can't be avoided because they are everywhere. My suggestion, Dumb them down. Give them 100k HAM, less resists, and medium armor. They respawn so often, that whenever a group decides to take the time to destroy one, by the time they do, either the droid has respawned, or everything else they just killed has respawned. And of course, once they kill one, no loot. The funny thing is, they don't even do that much damage. My whole time in the bunker today, whenever I got a Super Battle droid on me, I ran outside and pressed peace to get it off me, there was no point in fighting it, no reward.


3)Better yet, replace the super battle droid spawns with things that are more fun to fight. Replace each Super Battle Droid Spawn with 2 Death Watch, or 3 Black Sun Assassins. Super Battle Droids don't do as much damage as, say, 2 death watch. But they take 5 times as long to kill.


4)Leave the spawn rates as they are for the first 2 weeks. There will continue to be a lot of people there for a long time, and the spawn rates need to stay high so people aren't fighting over spawns. Once there are fewer people visiting the dungeon, tune down the spawns, make them last a few minutes longer before they hit again.


Overall, I enjoy the fact that it is hard. I like the dungeon so far. However, there is a difference between hard, and tedious. Super Battle Droids are tedious. Death Watch, battle droids, and black sun are fun to fight, and are challenging.
LLJK_Griz
Tue May 25, 2004 10:53 pm
#192






RaijinE wrote:







HimFan wrote:
So devs ARE reading this. To bad they cant say anything other then repeated informantion.






Why are we surprised when Dev's respond to posts in this board? Of course they are reading this. This area is to get feedback on a major new area that was just pushed Live. They worked long and hard on getting this out of course they want to know what we think. I am surprised when any red name drops in a post because a lot of times it is like throwing gas on afire. People go into attack mode. I think we should all take a step back some times and think about how much everyone has invested in getting even the smallest change pushed out to the community. Thanks for all the hard work Dev Team.




They don't care about feedback, and the only responses they ever post in these threads are repeated information from other threads, usually in response to a particularly stupid whine post to correct its misinformation.


Look at the corvette thread. 36 pages of "it's too hard" and "it's confusing" and "too many droids" and the only thing they did was make it HARDER because of the very few people who somehow managed to solo it. Now it's near impossible and they don't care any more.


They didn't do anything useful for the corvette, and I doubt if they'll do anything here either.




POKEY THE PENGUIN SIG REMOVED BY GARVA BECAUSE "Just because you are crafty enough to get around the technicality of it being a .jpg or .gif does not mean it is not an image, it is not ascii art, it is an image" SO HERE IS MY NEW SIG.
HUGE UGLY SIG
longboarder01
Tue May 25, 2004 10:56 pm
#193

/agree


concerning the mando armor. this is soe's way to make things rare. make the items so frustratingly hard to acquire that only the uber leet powergamers will have them. that's a bigslap in the faceto us casual gamers. i would LOVE to have the mando armor and jet pack but i can't even get a power core for an AV-21. death watch bunker? not even going to try. i just hope jtls is good.





Arayu Darkmoon
Andriko
Tue May 25, 2004 11:05 pm
#194

I was massively disappointed to learn the the jetpack was Master DE and not Master Artisan




Andriko Starwalker - Master Swordsman | Master Brawler - Rebel Ace Pilot
Paladin - Light Jedi Knight
Akeli - Master Weaponsmith | Doctor
RIP
longboarder01
Tue May 25, 2004 11:07 pm
#195

i forgot to mention that this new content breeds selfishness that i thought mmorpgs were trying to move away from. competing groups loot camping the keys andfighting over who's mando armor gets crafted. THIS IS FUN!



i've been playing the wow beta. they've somehow avoided (IN BETA NOW remember) the major mistakes that soe has made and continues to make with this game. if they don't make this new content more 'playable,' wow MAY take a serious chunk of the player base.





Arayu Darkmoon
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