CUEmu - Thread Posts

DeathRydar

Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:03 pm

NaKitNa wrote:

You know, looking at many combat classes I think there would be room for different "subclasses". Rifleman could have areas above Master Rifleman specifically Sniper or Machine gun or the like. Just a thought.

And a very good thought. Cheers to you, you're thinking.

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ThePirateKing

Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:43 pm

#184

And give up some of my skill points? NEVER! NEVER! THEY ARE ALL MINE!

Actually that might be a good idea, although using elite elites maybe a hardthing to pass. I thought the whole matter over and this is what I thought of.

Rifleman/ -One hit one kill motto. They are very hard to find or hit in combat, the enemy will have to have rangers, Creature Handlers with 'sniffing' petsor bounty hunter in order to locate and 'paint' them for the whole group. High Ham costs but the benefit is amazing. Very seldom miss moving targets. *Needs a backup weapon for running away (Make the E-11 alot more powerful! I bet sotrmtrooper dont walk with these daisy-cutters) Lastly, rifleman is the class that can target any pool! Deny as we may, it is a support class.

Carbineer/ -They should take the role of machine gunner since machine gunner isnt that far range and it would bring alot more balacne to the battle field. Carbineers work best while kneeling, and are very effective in knocking down multiple enemies. They belong in the middle and dont have the penalties the rifleman has while walking. These are the Riflemans last line of protection, their ultimate role is to keep the enemy from advancing or retreating.

Pistoleer/ They do the dirty work, best up close and personal. With very little penalties when running, since they would be foolish to stay still. Although the least powerful or the marksman class, they are the most mobile and versatile. They are the light infantry and work very well when moving in for the kill, and are second best when it comes to charging an enemy.

Commando/ The heavy infantry, they are the most powerful of classes. They should move slow and have a short attack period as most commando weapons have a limited use. They would work best charging the enemy, and leaving once the pistols and melee hold the new front. They also have a very high tolerance to damage, making their lack or mobility made up with increased resistance to firepower. Their damage though completely random and cannot give the wounding the rifleman can, since rifleman aim to cripple.

Melee/ The front line men, they serve as killing any other class up close. With little effort they can destroy any marksman class with one acception. Without a chraging class, they recieve considerable damage when charging a marksman class, especially one such as the commando and the rifleman (We all know that with a riflemen they would be dead). However they move very fast and would most likely suprise one the heat of battle and could use their added terrain negotaion skills to outrun any marksman class, either killing them or breaking a formation for divide and conquer tactis.

I believe that would be the most balanced system. Although it means rifle wont be a pvp class in the end, we would still be incredibly valued. Please tell me what you think

-Lazarro Tormes
-Captain of SMH
-Former General of BoM

PsychoticChipmunk

Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:54 pm

#185

DeathRydar wrote:

Please excuse me if this subject was already touched on, but I could not read this entire thread.

I feel there is a great problem with Riflemen. I am sure the devs meant to make them powerful, but not at close range. Why is it as a Pistoleer, I am the one that suffers at close range combat and not the Rifleman. I am getting sick and tired of bein 6-10 meters from a Rifleman and getting smacked with 2 sniper shots. SHouldnt the Rifleman not be as accurate or not be able to hit someone when you are that close in? This game has turned into a game where people just pick the same professions. Everyone gets Fencer for the Dodge and def Mods and Rifleman because basically, they are unstoppable.

Riflemen should be deadly, but deadly at a distance, not at 10 meters. The professions are not balanced as long as this remains the way it is. Shouldnt' it be a Rifleman is deadly at far range, yet a TKA or other Melee would have a field day with him? I should not have to become a Rifleman just to keep up with everyone else in PvP. On my server, if you dont do the Fencer profession and Rifle profession and get Charge Shot in the Carbineer tree then you are at a disadvantage in PvP. I'm sure I am not the only one that feels that this is not the way a game should be. The professions should be balanced with each class able to crush another class yet able to be crushed by yet another class.

Am I wrong?

Well a few things.

One, you do realize that you are complaining that people have found a powerful build. Basically stating that if you were to nerf the Fencer line or Carbineer you would basically have the same results as nerfing rifleman. People would pick other builds, and actually I'd say that 0/0/0/4 TKA would be better with rifleman, in order to be the best.

Two, we have a bug that makes our defense at melee range higher then it should be. We should be getting beaten with ease when a melee char gets incredibly close-by but we aren't because of the bug. This is going to be fixed and we'll loose some of the FoTM bandwaggoners so you can complain about their new builds then.

And three, you are better at sniping then we are.We can actually miss at 64 meters with our rifle meanwhile you guys can hit us easily. I may be confusing some pistoleers with BH dabblers but there are plenty of documented posts and personal accounts where a pistol actually outranged a rifle in terms of accuracy. If we are hitting you fairly often up close then consider it a trade off for that silly little fact. It should be reversed, and likely will be in a few months. (after all we're still waiting on the January patch)

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Regulation

Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:05 am

#186

I think that the Rifleman needs a total revamp.......mostly the weaponry and abilities

there should be a Assault Rifle as well as a More powerfull sniper rifle in which the sniper rifle has a longer distance with a higher damage and longer time to wait before firing again (1 shot kill but if you miss enough time to find you)

An Assault Rifle AE attack that does health and action damage (not mind), as well as leg shots cripping the victim

the assault rifle should only have a max of 40 meters because this is a assault rifle unless you want to have a sniping addon to with like a scope of some kind...but with a scope making it slower in the sniping aspect

A More Powerful rifle (kinda like a 50 cal weapons most likely but more powerfull) be able to do a vechicle disable/Droid Disable/distroy ability again this is a slow weapon mabye a 10 second timer per shot (no mods can be added on to this weapon)

Most of everyone in pvp knows that Rifleman are weak against melee and giving them a rifle to use up close with a faster speed would be alot better than getting yourself killed using a long range rifle

again these are my thoughts on the subject

---= Delorian Kitre sKs (Assassin - Master Combat Medic 12pt) Co-Leader of sKs =---
---= Eses Dibra sKs ( Master Bounty Hunter- Master Carbineer) =---
---= Ken'shao Zwolf sKs (Jedi Sentinel) =---
---= Lanman E-thug sKs (Master Ranger - Master SquadLeader) =---

Kaloman

Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:57 am

#187

The rifleman as defined by their skills is literally a sniper. I have seen and heard alot of people compare the SWG rifleman to real life riflemen. The comparison is weak. The real life rifleman, or infantryman, is the SWG equivelant of a Carbineer. The only reason real life doesn't have carbineers now is cause the assult rifle was created like a hybrid of the hunting rifle and the carbine. The assult rifle is correctly very accurate at long range, and can be set to fire as single shots or three round bursts. The sniper rifle used by the military is a bolt action, long barreled, single shot gun, with a accuracy upto 360 meters away for a person just out of sniper academy. Most military snipers can nail a target upto a half mile, thats 800 meters away.

The biggest problem with the rifleman in SWG right now is range. 64 meters just isn't long enough. In the 5 seconds it takes between shots a mob can cover that distance and start smiting the rifleman.

The point to a SWG rifleman in any group fighting "sentient" mobs, (NPC imps, rebs, swoopers, etc.) would be to take out the squad leader in the opposing group. Squad leaders bestow many bonuses onto their groups, it would be the rifleman's job to get rid of that guy. Then the rest of the rifleman's group rushes the now confused and leaderless group of mobs, be they stormtroopers or what ever.

The only other real issue that I as a rifleman have found is the HAM of the mobs. I understand the desire to make situations difficult, but there is really no reason that any mob of a player race should have 10 times the normal HAM of any player, unless there is an NPC there to buff them, (doctor, dancer, etc.) Even that is pushing it. I may be mistaken, but I feel that the idea of the rifleman is... anyone who has rifleman skills over novice is considered militarilly trained. A person with marksman: rifles 4 is just a really good hunter, and should regularly be able to one shot moderately sized animals, or people who are not combatitivly trained. The HAMs of almost all of the mobs really should be revised. There are some creatures that really have no reason to have as much HAM as they do. The tabage is a prime example. The tabage (which I have taken to be a kin to the real life caiman, or komodo dragon) should be able to be one shotted with a DLT20A. It currently takes 1 MindShot2, and 2 HeadShot2s. Thats three shots.

As for damage comparison, the rifleman, the carbineer, and the pistoleer should be doing about the same amount of damage over time (or Damage per Second). Almost all players that do combat will calculate there damage to that degree.

As for skill progression, I think it's ok. I agree with others that the rifleman should be able to choose which attribute pool they wish to attack. The thing that should save a person from a rifleman is armor, not more HAM. There should be rebel and imperial missions that are geared toward snipers.

I hope this helps, they are just my personal observations and opinions, some may dissagree and that's ok, others will. Thank you for listening.

Raynor Talos - Interplanetary Knights Of the Republic - Gorath

Kaloman

Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:31 am

#188

I just wanted to add that, several people have noted that riflemen should have posture down attacks, and assault rifles and such.

First, since the rifleman skills are focused on sniping accuracy, concealment, and counter sniping (primarily) and sniping is usually a really long range form of combat, it should be noted that a sniper doesn't want his target to be prone. A prone person has a bonus to ranged defense, (last I checked). That would make it harder to hit your target. However, it would also be correct that a sniper doesn't want a target to advance on them, that is why there is the SuppressionFire skill given under marksman. So a rifleman does infact have both, because FlushingShot is a posture up.

Second, almost everyone who makes the starting arguments I noted above, are ignoring the fact there there is a whole profession geared toward supression and AoE attacks, the carbineer. I would be in total agreement with others on the assault rifle idea if there was no carbineer profession, but there is.

Third, as for needing a faster high damage gun. That is why many riflemen I have talked to, are also marksman: Carbines or Pistols 4. That usually gives me the added edge I need to protect myself when engaged in close quarters combat.

nyadach

Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:04 am

#189

To start with, before I even played the game I had decided on playing as a Rifleman, why? I wanted (for RP perposes) to be a ground pounder. And fitting that a Rifleman in the Empire, complete with Stormtrooper armour fitted perfectly. I have always been a Rifleman, and always will be.

What other have said about the profession sums it up nicely. There is definatly a branch between the "Sniper" role and the "Machine Gunner" role. Personally I love our abilities to go covert and slowly whittle down a larger beast using out concealment skills...ok this is utterly useless in PvP but it could become something? why not a sub branch skill of giving our concealment line a change of disguise? maybe "bush", "rock", "tree", or "wall"....our disguise could be made (nice addition for a artisan based class to make holo projectors for us or something). Weapon wise in "Sniper" style we have the T21, its good if a little heavy on mind damage to ourselves at times. On a guild hunt for example though, this skill would be utterly useless, as being covert, and sniping is of little use in a pack unless (as I do) I hang back and protect the medics from 60m out. This would make our concealment skill (partically if it worked in PvP alot more unique).

The "Machine Gunner" role is effectively completely different. No fancy covert tactics, no subtlety, just lots of damage given out and lots of damage taken (or so you would expect). Maybe a differant line of weapons here from the sniper line could be introduced, or even run as modified versions of the current rifles. This is more of a role which would be used when in groups of dungeons, since the "Sniper" role is really problematic when the length of a dungeon passage is 30m and short of using a Spray-Stick (not saying I don't like the Spray-stick, it is very nifty....even if it means people mistake you for a Jedi all the time *mutter*) you tend to hit a few probs with range. The gunner role would be based on maybe the Spray-Stick model for short range and fast.

We are in essence gound pounders. We are the front line assault troops who should die often (know that feeling way too often by equiping my ST armour hehe). We are the protectors of a team both via sniping and removing hostiles from afar, and up close we can be the front line in protecting of others also. We are the infantry unit

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Major Nya'dachi Firelighter
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"Who said the Rebels were the good guys? thats nothing more than cheap propaganda!"

Gatsu002

Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:49 am

#190

If rifleman is "overpowered" what happend with combat medics??????

Kwisats Haderach
Ifoxe Osag

Noob of Radiant........................

Gatsu002

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:36 am

#191

atm the rifleman professions is good for PVP , isnt overpowered , only depends on the person that use it , u can find really good riflemans in the game , people that know how to use it , but rifleman istn overpowered , they can win a BH but its hard , and if u Dizzy knockdown a rifleman the combat is over. I think atm the riflemans is one of the most balanced combat professions , of curse if all the masters depends on the person that use it , maybe the only class that is overpowred atm is combat medic , all the others classes looks balanced, if u r a pistoler and fight at 10m against a rifleman and dont know how to use ur pistoler skills u will die , but if u know how to use it u can kill a rifleman easly at 10m , and if u r TKM or other melee class of course u will kill the rifleman if know how to use it. At all the person that controll the character is who make rifleman more or less powerful , if u know how to use this profession ull kill a lot of players. If not , u will die in 2 shots

Kwisats Haderach
Ifoxe Osag

Noob of Radiant........................

Gatsu002

Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:49 am

#192

sorry about htis 3 posts lol , i missed some things lol.

The PVP is unbalanced for :

1.- Combat Medics.

2.- Armors 80% + .

3.- Buffs.

Other things that i think can be added to rifleman professions :

1.- incress the range , the riflemans can hit at 64 to 90m

2.- Low melee defense.

3.- Plz , block is bugged true? unbugg it lol.

4.- 90 - 70 great chance to hit targets 70 - 50 = normal chance 50= 20 low chance 20 - 0 impossible to hit

5.- Why a rifleman need startle shot 2 and flushing shot 2??? this 2 attacks r exactly the same lol.

6.- High ranged defense.

its all i think lol

Kwisats Haderach
Ifoxe Osag

Noob of Radiant........................

Koveros

Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:23 am

#193

This is a general post of how I see the non-hybrid combat professions in relation to each other

Brawler- melee, basic attacks, pretty tough, master box has moves for any weapon, not specific weapons

Marksman - ranged, speedy, stays out of melee, pretty much good the way it is.

Elite roles:

Pikeman - action damaging tanks that are at home fighting many opponents at once. that should be their specailty: taking out groups and being the center of attention. they also take damage like nobody else can. give them skills to help with armor, like encumbrance reduction, such as -50% at master(great suggestion, wish I could claim inventing it). Also, give them a chance to hit. they can't hit anything right now.

Heavy Swordman - if you must have specific pools, then just stay with mind. They should be the damage monsters of melee. slow, accurate, but heavy damge with that katana of power hammer. They should exel at taking out single opponents, but massive damage works no matter who you are fighting. give them the same armor incentive that pikemen have.

Fencer - Evasion masters. they parry, they dodge, they jump, they roll, all with style. I feel they need to have precision type specials and moves, great get-out-of-the-way mods. They are great in single combat but can also goagainst groups too. should not have bonuses for wearing armor

TKA - They should be the masters of states. Blind, dizzy, stun, etc. They should get great bonuses to inflicting states and great resistances to all the states. They should get some damage evasion abilites, though nowhere near the fencer. A TKA's role is that of crippling and wearing down an enemy. their attacks should be both single and area. Being able to target any pool they want is great, but not to the extent of the other classes. Fix the force of will ability, but leave the med tree. it is the single most unique tree out there.

I feel that TKA's should not wear armor and as such, have penalties for doing so. this is reflected in their inherant Badassness that whiners complain about.

Carbineers - like Pikemen, but at range. action pool draining masters of taking out multiple people at once. All ranged elite professions can wear armor if they want, but no big bonuses. medium range is their specialty

Riflemen - should do damage like no other elite ranged profession (excluding hybrids like commando and BH.) they pick off the large targets with a head shot. they don't need armor. They are similar to Heavy swordsman, only at range. long range is their specailty.

Pistoleers - the trickshots, the experts, the masters of precision damage, kind of a hybrid of TKA state mods with fencer presicion and similar dodging. they should be short range , weaving in and out of the opponents, shooting them right where it will be the most effective.

PsychoticChipmunk

Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:22 am

#194

Xytroncore wrote:

Gatsu002 wrote:

Other things that i think can be added to rifleman professions :

1.- incress the range , the riflemans can hit at 64 to 90m

Hey everyone, why be another class when you can just be a riflemen and shoot farther away then anyone else? lol, honestly, would you be a pistoleer if you were just going to be killed from 90m away when you can't even auto attack back? uh no, you wouldn't. No one would be anything but riflemen.

Unbelievable...

Ok how do you think melee professions feel when pistoleers spam them from 40 meters and they can't auto attack back? So why isn't everyone in a ranged profession?

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Xytroncore

Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:36 am

#195

PsychoticChipmunk wrote:

Xytroncore wrote:

Gatsu002 wrote:

Other things that i think can be added to rifleman professions :

1.- incress the range , the riflemans can hit at 64 to 90m

Hey everyone, why be another class when you can just be a riflemen and shoot farther away then anyone else? lol, honestly, would you be a pistoleer if you were just going to be killed from 90m away when you can't even auto attack back? uh no, you wouldn't. No one would be anything but riflemen.

Unbelievable...

Ok how do you think melee professions feel when pistoleers spam them from 40 meters and they can't auto attack back? So why isn't everyone in a ranged profession?

Well pistoleers are weaksauce, they suck, wear armor and they'll do 40 damage to you with fan shot, even crappy armor negates their damage nearly completely. But you don't think all melee'ers hate riflemen already? lol. But the only reason why anybody is a pistoleer right now is because of smuggler, pistoleer is terrible by itself. Melee'ers wouldn't feel the added range of riflemen all that much, they'll still all get slaughtered in 4 second by riflemen anyways, but doing this would make ranged combat a game of riflemen, would you honestly be a pistoleer when you're confined to only 64m being killed by every single type of combat class when you could easily switch to riflemen, and get the same more range, and 5x the power and only have to spend the same amount of skill points to do it too? Of coarse you would, you'd have to be a complete idiot to let yourself play a class that is A)underpowered and B) completely hampered by range. At least meleers have warcry and the option for a 20m KD, there's no way for a pistoleer to prevent kiting.

Plus more range would mean the turrets would have to be given 100m of range, another reason why one would ask the question, why the hell would I want to play a class with only 64m range when I could play as one with 90m range and be at almost impunity to anyone else?

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Thread: IC 1-12: Combat Roles; Rifleman