Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-12: Combat Roles; Rifleman

rzzq
Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:04 am
#170

why id it that a cm can throw for 90m but a rifleman can only shot 64m?



KiLL'eM aLL aNd LeT YoDa SoRt ThEm OuT
Vargos
Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:55 am
#171

We need extra range. What makes a sniper is the fact that he is out of range and impossible to find. When I attack I want an extra maybe 25-40m (personally I'd like more but that would be ridiculous) Also...when we do a surpriseshot....we shouldn't be automatically targeted. I can't count how many times I've been hiding behind someones pet in theed in prone position from 64m using advanced strafe and they start attacking (auto-attack and targetting) before they even realize someone has begun attacking. I want that extra shot in battle before the pistoleer or BH can find me to attack. I want to see people scatter to look for me. And...if I do get spotted I want them to have the advantage. Just my 2 creds...but if you want professions to have individual roles then you need to compare then in some way to real life. The last patch helped a lot in PvE but add these aspects to PvP.



1. sniper


2. sneaking and range


3. good damage like it is now


4. only really good w/ /takecover, good w/ prone, alright w/ kneel, bad when running


5. hidden shots


6. the guy who starts pvp raids....the guy who pulls in PvE


7. As mentioned above in PvP


8. If they get spotted they had better have a pistoleer, TKA, healer, etc. backing their ass if they get spotted. (They need a spotter).


9. In the GCW they should have assassination roles when actual content is added.





________________________________________________________________
Vargos
F*ck Darwin, I AM Natural Selection
RIP Alexandre Roi, Troteg Gato, Spike Spiegal, Dellenia Faeyed, Calais Firethorne
Un-Ban RiseFM
Brokenlightsaber
Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:23 pm
#172






Vargos wrote:

We need extra range. What makes a sniper is the fact that he is out of range and impossible to find. When I attack I want an extra maybe 25-40m (personally I'd like more but that would be ridiculous) Also...when we do a surpriseshot....we shouldn't be automatically targeted. I can't count how many times I've been hiding behind someones pet in theed in prone position from 64m using advanced strafe and they start attacking (auto-attack and targetting) before they even realize someone has begun attacking. I want that extra shot in battle before the pistoleer or BH can find me to attack. I want to see people scatter to look for me. And...if I do get spotted I want them to have the advantage. Just my 2 creds...but if you want professions to have individual roles then you need to compare then in some way to real life. The last patch helped a lot in PvE but add these aspects to PvP.



1. sniper


2. sneaking and range


3. good damage like it is now


4. only really good w/ /takecover, good w/ prone, alright w/ kneel, bad when running


5. hidden shots


6. the guy who starts pvp raids....the guy who pulls in PvE


7. As mentioned above in PvP


8. If they get spotted they had better have a pistoleer, TKA, healer, etc. backing their ass if they get spotted. (They need a spotter).


9. In the GCW they should have assassination roles when actual content is added.








In reality this is the way it should be, however, look at it from game balance perspective, you have large mind damage capabilities, outrange people, and they can't target you right away. If that was implemented youd get nerfed shortly after.



BH : 3-4-4-4
Novice Medic
Pistoleer: 0040
ClollinLightningsun
Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:31 pm
#173

In my opinion the only basic thing that really urgently needs to be done is to balance the speed, range, and power.


That's it.





-Clollin Lightningsun, Social Events Manager, New Dawn Corporation, Bloodfin
Brokenlightsaber
Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:49 pm
#174

Power i think is ok as is, range should be increased slightly, as for speed, this is where something needs to be done. A sniper takes time to aim, and fire, they cant pump out 1 shot every second. It is possible with a pistol, or carbine (submachinegun) but not with a sniper rifle.



BH : 3-4-4-4
Novice Medic
Pistoleer: 0040
ThePirateKing
Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:19 pm
#175

Here are the main complaints


1.) Range, Range Range


With a Sniper Rifle, at the most 100m. But with the Heavy Machine Gun (i.e. M60) 70m, because its not that accurate. Perhaps in order to get such range a Scope must be attached, like a powerup but last ALOT longer and you can SEE IT on the riflemodel. Whats a sniper rifle if there is no scope.


2.) Need a Heavy Machine Gun


I have a Star Wars Guide to Weapons and technology book I got a couple years back, and it says that the T-21 is actually a Heavy Machine Gun, not a Sniper Rifle. It can be carried by hand but is most effective when using a tripod. So here is my idea, weapon smith can sell tripods with built in and replacble power cells which can be attached to the T-21. It would increase the speed of attack, like 2-4(max) shots per second, reduce the damageby say 15%(which isnt that much considering the advantage). Heres the catch so it wouldnt be uber powerful. It take some time to set up, like 6-10 seconds and when in use the rifleman is rendered immobile. If you want to move, it would be similar to when your sitting down, just click foward and you will automatically disassemble the gun. Now since the T-21 can operate with two-men, a second rifleman could replace the powercells as the first-rifleman fires, thus negating any damage penalty. Although the power consumption would be significant. The last note, to make sure that not all Rifleman are uber-powerful, is that in order to use the tripod, one most be Master Rifleman or at least 2-2-2-2.


3.) Invisible Cover


A rifleman should be able to be hidden from other players in PVP, but not completely. The Opponent would be able to know the general direction and would be able to radomly fire with a decrease amount of success than normal. If the hit the rifleman however, their position would be revealed. Thats is with Marksman Classes, Melee would have different shurbs and such they would have to check automatically before they successfully find them ( stabone and moveon). Lastly, Rangers and Bounty Hunter would be able to spot the Rifleman and the Higher level one could use a Group Command that would reveal the Rifleman to all. This Invisible Cover Skill only works with the T-21 Sniper





-Lazarro Tormes
-Captain of SMH
-Former General of BoM
PsychoticChipmunk
Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:45 am
#176






Brokenlightsaber wrote:
Power i think is ok as is, range should be increased slightly, as for speed, this is where something needs to be done. A sniper takes time to aim, and fire, they cant pump out 1 shot every second. It is possible with a pistol, or carbine (submachinegun) but not with a sniper rifle.







Quite true, which is why we use an M-16 equivalent. If we are meant to be snipers then our gun is nowhere near tailored for it. Sure you can use it to snipe but then the same is true of all rifles that exist post musket era. As has been suggested make it so that we are either a sniper or a gunner thanks to our weapon choice and we'll be happy and you all will be happy (we'll have a strength and a weakness depending on the gun as well as our inherent weaknesses)


Also, if they fix our melee defense we'll loose a bunch ofour bandwagon buddies.




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0000000000000000000000000000000000Decorator, Mayor, Rifleman, Bothan0000000
Vargos
Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:50 am
#177

I understand that my changes are overpowering. But this is in hopes I'll get just one. I think most of us agree that the power is fine as-is. Most of us like the idea of an extra 5-10m at least. And why the heck should anyone be auto-targetted in the first place? If Im going on a raid (only time i can openly be attacked w/o knowing whos attacking me) why should I be able to automatically find whos shooting me? I'm not saying to even hide it in combat view. At least if we were prone and use surpriseshot or concealshot since they are **edit**ing useless attacks as-is in pvp. We are still the only profession that has attacks specifically for PvP...that sucks. Snipershot only for pvp, concealshot useless unless pve, surpriseshot is pretty much useless anyway you put it. So we get screwed because at master rifleman we have like mindshot2, mindshot1, headshot3, strafe2, flush2, flurry2, startle2....give us more abilities and nerf the speed if you wanna nerf us.



________________________________________________________________
Vargos
F*ck Darwin, I AM Natural Selection
RIP Alexandre Roi, Troteg Gato, Spike Spiegal, Dellenia Faeyed, Calais Firethorne
Un-Ban RiseFM
Owain1
Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:45 pm
#178


What defines theRiflemanrole in combat?


Damage/supression at range.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Depending on the weapon being employed, large damage, low rate of fire against single targets (sniper rifle), Low damage, high rate of fire, multiple targetAOE (heavy machine gun), Medium damage, Medium rate of fire against single or multiple targets (assault rifle).


What offensive abilities?


Sniper weaponsshould be able to target specific hams, heavy AOE weaponsrandom hams, Assault rifles attack combination of health and action.


What defensive abilities?


Primarily concealment, with the exception I would suggest a change that a rifleman that has taken up the PoleArm brawler skill branch should be able to equip a bayonet rifle mod that uses pole arm melee skills/specials at close range. That way, a person has to expend skill points to offset deficiencies at melee distances, but still would not be as proficient as someone who specializes in melee skills. This would be balanced in that the melee fighter would take damage at long range while closing but would inflict more damage at close range. The rifleman would inflict more damage at longrange, and less at hand to hand distances. The outcome should be uncertain, which sounds pretty balanced to me.


What unique abilities?


Different special skills for use with specialized weapons - sniper rifle, AOE automatic weapons, assault weapons.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


High damage against single targets, suppression fire against multiple targets, shock assault power.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


Great combined arms tactics using squads of riflemen led by a squad leader, with commando heavy weapon support. Heavy machine gunners supply supresssing AOE fire to keep opposing force's heads down, allowing carbineers and assault riflement to advance. Snipers offer counter sniping and targeting of opposing machine gunners/patrol leaders. Assault riflemen and carbeeners supply close in support and penetration, covering pistoleers and melees to close for the close in fighting.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Snipers are deadly to opposing snipers/machine gunners, but would be vulnerable at closer range to opposing assault riflemen/carbineers, and even more vulnerable to pistoleers/melee.


Machine gunners would be lethal to advancing troops, forcing them to either go prone or die, while they would be vulnerable to snipers and flanking assault/carbine/pisol/melee troops.


Assault riflemen could fire better on the move (not as well as carbineers or pistoleers), providing close in fire support, but are also vulnerable to snipers/gunners and flanking assault/melee.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?



Fire support - Sniping/counter sniping, AOE supression, assault.

DeathRydar
Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:12 pm
#179

Please excuse me if this subject was already touched on, but I could not read this entire thread.


I feel there is a great problem with Riflemen. I am sure the devs meant to make them powerful, but not at close range. Why is it as a Pistoleer, I am the one that suffers at close range combat and not the Rifleman. I am getting sick and tired of bein 6-10 meters from a Rifleman and getting smacked with 2 sniper shots. SHouldnt the Rifleman not be as accurate or not be able to hit someone when you are that close in? This game has turned into a game where people just pick the same professions. Everyone gets Fencer for the Dodge and def Mods and Rifleman because basically, they are unstoppable.


Riflemen should be deadly, but deadly at a distance, not at 10 meters. The professions are not balanced as long as this remains the way it is. Shouldnt' it be a Rifleman is deadly at far range, yet a TKA or other Melee would have a field day with him? I should not have to become a Rifleman just to keep up with everyone else in PvP. On my server, if you dont do the Fencer profession and Rifle profession and get Charge Shot in the Carbineer tree then you are at a disadvantage in PvP. I'm sure I am not the only one that feels that this is not the way a game should be. The professions should be balanced with each class able to crush another class yet able to be crushed by yet another class.


Am I wrong?






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~KaYGee~

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ThePirateKing
Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:37 pm
#180

No, not at all. The accuracy during combat should be very strict. Right now the range modifer is additive, at least very leneant, for example (20m, a30) (25m, a35). It should be like this,say 20m would be the max for a class so their accuracy would be at 37, when they move to 22m the accuracy should drop like a cliff to almost 0. That should solve most of the problem.


As for the differnt gun ideas, i would have to agree with Owain1. I especially like the Assualt Idea, Rifleman would finally be able to move while in combat without being reduced to blind monkeys and it is our own PVP weapon.





-Lazarro Tormes
-Captain of SMH
-Former General of BoM
Orrzz
Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:33 pm
#181


What defines the RIfleman in combat?

The rifleman's game is chess, not checkers. Precision, and careful planning, rather than just rushing in to blow things up. High offensive power, low defense which is offset by careful setup and cover ablilities as well as the longest range.


What combat elements should they posess?

Threeideas i read that i really like are the ability to "surgical strike" any element of the HAM pool, hence finishing off enemies at their weak point. Also some sort of setup command that takes time but provides heavy bonuses to range, dmg, and hit%,and makes you harder to detect, this should also take time to pack things back up so that you can move again, this may breed a new type of heavy rifle that needs setup. Also an ability to hide from other players so that riflemen are able to retain some use in PvP. Riflemen should have abilities to help them detect enemy riflemen that are concealed, making it more dangerous to try to snipe at a group that also has a rifleman of their own.


Weaknesses

If after all that setup they happen to be spotted, and an enemy closes on them, their effectiveness...0%. They should be next to useless in close range combat.


Unique Role

Something that would be really cool is Rifleman missions. Snipe a high ranking imp/reb officer or aggitator, that is under heavy guard. Protecting units should be extremely tough so that if stealth is not used the support units will smash you like a bug, or if you are detected the mission is a failure
SWG-Skemo
Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:55 pm
#182

Rifleman should have a role of a mainstay ranged profession. A profession that is incredibly powerful at ranged, but gets utterly destroyed in melee combat. Any speed cap of any sort will kill this profession. The lack of adequate defensive bonuses and their inability to combat melee assault, equally balances their ranged power and speed. Creative new concepts could help define this class from any other ranged profession. To help with the sniper role, it'd be great to be able to "take cover" and be invisible on the radar. This idea would help by making the Rifleman more of a sniper, than a gunner. I hope you realize the implication of a speed cap for this profession, it'd truely ruin what we have, and demote us to the punching bag of PvP.



Morven

Proprietor of Morven's Culinary Creations - Brenn (-3083, 3252)

Master Chef - Master Rifleman

"Cooking up death, one headshot at a time."
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