Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
JaleouQaes wrote:
What probably angers me the most is the fact that I love this game so much that I won't quit.
You know, you should, really, if it makes you that angry. At the end of the day, this is a game, and if the company that owns the game can't make it so people are enjoying the game, then they should not be rewarded by continued patronage of the game. Especially if the company uses techniques like lies and beta signups when everybody are the most angry.
Its about money, and if a company can give a good product and ethical customer service/support, then good for them, let them make as much money as they can. But when they hurt the customers to make that money, to cover up their mistakes and use deceptive practices to fool the customers, then that is just wrong, plain wrong.
Its funny, I don't even PvP, doesn't interest me at all, but because of the postponement (and the lies given about its status), I'm going to cancel my two accounts as soon as an alternative MMORPG is available for me (this being my first MMORPG ever). But then again, if I was really angry, I would cancel now, but for me personally, its more of a 'honor' thing (or Golden Rule thing, treat me how I treat you) that being truly angry at SOE. More like disappointed.
Rhysati wrote:
MadShade wrote:
Everyone bashes TH and the Devs for lies and misinformation when you don't even realize that they don't have to have this much community interaction. They can't hire tons of people with your 15 bucks a month and even if they did, you can only have so many people working on the same project. Most of the people here are arguing from a position of ignorance. You have no idea what its like to do thier job and you don't know what goes into it. Some others havea sort of a clue and have some well thought out complaints.
No, we are the consumer, therefore I think we're more than qualified to make an arguement. I don't need to know what goes into their jobs or how they do it. I do know that when I'm told something by a corporation, or an agent of that corporation, that I should be able to expect honesty to be at the forefront of everything they say. Have you ever heard of ENRON? Kenneth Lay? I'm not saying SOE is Enron, but I'm not going to be lied to about the process the developers are taking to fix things they themselves have admitted are broken.
As a corporation that's requiring people to pay for their service, which is capitalism at it's best, they have an obligation to the consumer. We agreed to the EULA every time we played the game.I think that what a lot of peopleare saying, whether constructive in your eyes or not, is they aretheir expectations as a paying consumer of a product have been let down. That's alsoAmerica at it's best.That doesn't mean that people act like sheep when things don't go their way. I respect you opinion, while I don't share it. But next time, don't call me or anyone else ignorant.
Dodece wrote:The funny thing will be come monday morning when TH sits down at his desk to check on things, and he sees this forum rivaling the one he tried to hide. Wonder if he will try to sweep it under the rug also.
Actually, I think it'll be even funnier when NCSoft and Blizzard come in on Monday and wonder why their stocks just doubled. Unless, of course, anyone on staff there reads these boards. Then they won't have to wonder.
BLA BLA, CRAP CRAP, WHINE WHINE, CRAP, WHINE, BLA!!
SOE is a company that wants to make money, yes? how do they do that? BY HAVING PEOPLE PLAYING THEIR GAME!! why on earth would they do something against nearly ALL their subscribers if they didn't find it 100% nesesary! THEY WOULDNT!
If SOE thinks that the CR needs to be delayd/pushed a little back, they are probaly right! They know the game better than ANY of you whining sorry sods..
give them a break.. the game is how they make their living, so they probaly want it all working faster, better and smarter than anyone
Flame away.. oh and remeber to breath while typing, or take small pauses to overcome your stupidity!
BlueCelt wrote:
Still think its the worst idea and is a continued trend in misinformation. Refrencing a different post here I'm gonna post what has been said about the combat rebalance.
EDIT# This is not a slam on TH or any CSR type. Not their fault.
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TH
12/8/03
There is content in the works, GCW stuff, the combat revamp...
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TH 12/23/03
I know a bunch of this is in development, but it really is . The combat system is being rebalanced and going forward, its important to get your critical issues to klawlegna so we can act on it. The big bottleneck is communication and after the holidays, a lot of this will be ironed out and smoother.
Instead of "fixing this" and "tweaking" that and ending up with a wobbly 4 legged table because so many number are over-tweaked, we are just revamping the system, but that takes longer.
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TH 12/23/03
The short answer is that these items will be taken care of in the weapons balance. Specials, weapon stratification and the like will all be accounted for
(what ever happened to the weapons balance????)
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TH 12/23/03
I could, but everything is getting revamped. Id be more interested in hearing what you folks have to say on how you WANT it to stack since we are doing the combat balance.
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TH 12/23/03
If its big, its coming in the revamp and the Combat Balance
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TH 1/16/04 (does this one sound familar)
We are going to be revamping PvP, but in the meantime, we have to make some killer fixes to keep what is in live now, fun.
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TH 1/23/04
The combat balance is near and dear to my heart as are all player issues. I just have to juggle time, manpower and scheduling as well. What I do is I keep track of all the issues, label them and sort them. That way when I go to Blair, JustG and Runesabre and say "players need this fixed", its based on how many players are being effected.
The combat balance alone is the single largest player issue. It encompases about 34% of the Correspondent issues and much of the pain combat players are having. Pikemen, carbineers, commando heavy weapons, the cost of specials, HAM costs, all of that will be better when the combat balance is done.
The thing to remember is that because the combat balance touches so many other systems in the game, its going to take a while. The team thats working on this is working very hard and thats the best I can offer.
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TH 2/6/04 (holy cow...the combat revamp is mentioned INFRONT of the jedi revamp)
2. For PvP and Base battle folks, your time is coming. Once we get past the Combat Balance and the Jedi Revamp, the PvP balance is scheduled. Its a multi-publish update (roughly planned atm) where will consider battlefield possibilities, PvP upgrades and so on.
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TH 1/28/04
There are lots of ideas for sure, but right now, the team is focused on the Combat balance, the GCW, the Jedi Revamp, Correspondent/CSR issues, the publish theme, getting the existing professions improved and the dungeons.
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TH 1/19/04 (HAM revamp...assuming this is combat revamp)
The HAM revamp will address all of that. It will repair everyone's specials, it will solve the slow downs in combat and many other things. The challenge is that its a core game system and its going to take a bit because people from many different teams have to be involved.
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TH 2/12/04 (ouch...when I first read this...I thought it might come back to haunt him)
One message that is load and clear is that the combat balance is very important and we all know it is. So that means we have to get the combat balance done and in and polished.
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TH 2/13/04
For the most part, the combat balance is just coding atm
and this
There is much more to the combat balance. The biggest change you will see is in the way the HAM works. It will have more of a regen effect rather than a "diminishing returns" kind of effect. On top of this, defense stacking, specials and all of the combat "components" will be tweaked for more fun and challenging play
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TH 1/21/04
No, the development for the combat balance is being done all along. The develpment time for things like this is longer than most players realize. The "In Concept" cycle for combat roles per se is so that if players have any really great ideas pertaining what defines a profession's combat role, it can be added.
Once the basic design is done and the combat balance moves to the In-Dev phase, things can be tweaked a bit, but no major additions can be included. I thought it was important to get players ideas on combat roles and the dev team agreed.
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TH 2/13/04
I pushed very hard for the combat balance and the team agreed so basically they did the crackdown stuff and then did as much of the Combat Balance as possible. The combat balance items that were selected because they effected creatures so much. The first part of the combat balance was balancing the creature table
AND
I'll be preparing some Combat Balance stuff for next week that will help everyone get on the same page for going forward
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TH 3/3/04
This is something Im checking to see if we can address in the weapon balance part of the larger combat balance, but I don't know what the answer might be. And in any event, concentrating on these minor things before the weapon balance isn't productive. We'll want to look at things when the combat balance is on TC
AND
Actually the game will be easier at the high end because the "invulnerable" templates will be fixed and all professions will be on a level playing field, but in any event, this is something we need to focus on after the HAM revamp goes to TC in Pub 8 and after the Combat Balance goes into effect (tentatively Pub 9 and holding...)
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TH 4/12/04 (time for another meeting???)
We did have a meeting today and I fought hard to get the combat balance put back on the plate. By my reckoning, it represents about 35-40% of the player issues. Would you say thats a wrong direction? I'm always open to ideas that speak to the most players at any given time.
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TH 3/2/04
As far as combat template stacking, this is all part of the combat balance. I mentioned early on that we'd be going through a painful period and this is it. Once the HAM revamp hits the system (keep your fingers cross, it should be in Publish 8) all of these changes will make more sense. It will change the way combat plays and the majority of the discussion points regarding combat will change. Many players are still seeing the way the system was or is, and not as it will be.
The core interaction of combat pools will still work the same, but the way it feels in combat will be different. Once it goes to TC, Im hoping to see all the combat experts get online and play it out so we can tweak it - - it will be a critical period. I know Im anxious to see it
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TH 4/13/04
Atteke wrote:
Thunderheart could you guys put the combat balance on Test Centre in it's current condition like you did with the new HAM system in January? just so we can take a look at it.
-Thanks
Not really. Not for now anyway. You see, if we put it on Test Center, we'd have to push it out in Publish 9 with the the way the process works. Once a clump of code is integrated, "its in there". Thats where the sanbox that we've been talking about comes into play. This sandbox would be like a second Test Center, but configured in a way where it would be insulated from the live code and we would be able to push different versions out much easier without interfering with current process.
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TH 4/19/04
Originally, the Combat Balance was delayed and I worked with the correspondents to get a list of "must haves" from the various profession communities. Since that time, I've have stressed the importance of the combat balance with the team and we are getting it back into the mix, though as you might guess, the schedule is pretty full. Because of logistics, its going to take a couple weeks of information gathering on the technical side before we have a plan to move forward on. We will see the CB soon though.
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TH 4/19/04
We're in the planning stages now. I want to help set expectations as best I can. At this early stage, I would make the following comments:
- The biggest change in the CB that will be a "sensation", and by that I mean something that players will
change them after the CB gets published.
5/04
29/04
What will change is the mechanical balance - - especially with the HAM revamp portion of the CB
We can also further tweak the Smuggler’s combat role in the combat balance
The combat balance will bring elements of both to a Swordsman’s specials with the lions share of focus on re-tweaking the current specials to be more effective
These are two very important melee considerations for the combat balance
1 Answer to rule them all…
In closing, one thing that is very important to keep in mind is realistic expectations.The reality is that there are a huge number of player questions and answers that hang on the combat balance.What I don’t want to see happen is that because many questions revolve around a tight group of answers that the scope of the work gets expectations set so high that they are impossible to meet.We all have high hopes for the combat balance and the certainty that the Combat Balance is very, very important.We are putting a strong focus on special training and hardware to give the effort a leg up and will make this as cool as possible, but I wouldn’t look on it as a magic bullet, but more as an exciting change in direction.
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TH 4/22/04 (OUCH OUCH)
Why is it going to take more than a year post-launch to make this happen?
It's not. We've been talking about things internally a lot. I've stressed the importance of these changes and everyone agrees. We've been going over the implementation details for a couple of weeks now so that we can get this back on track. JustG will be going into more detail in his next State of the Game letter which will be coming out in the next couple of days.
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TH 6/3/04
This is definitely a topic we can discuss further in our upcoming Combat Balance focus threads.
...and this is another great example of something the correspondents and I will want community input on during the testing while the CB sandbox is up.
This is an early answer and is subject to change, but one of our goals for Commandos in the Combat Balance is to change the way Heavy Weapon modifiers work
...but we wont know until the Combat Balance sandbox is live).
When the Combat Balance begins (which will be soon), the correspondents and some players will be brought on to a special Combat Balance server
Lightsabers have been balanced against the system after the combat balance
The most important component to this is to keep giving good, solid feedback to your correspondent so I can bring these opinions to the development team while the CB sandbox is live.
You can look forward to sweeping changes in terms of functionality, speed, etc.But again, I stress, we talk about this topic a great deal in a conceptual form.The rubber is going to meet the road when we bring the correspondents and other players onto the Combat Balance Sandbox server
Again, absolutely.These changes are the types of things we want to address in the Combat Balance
Squad Leader
What is the SL revamp timeframe?. It's still going take place after the combat rebalance, correct?
Its going to be released in the same publish
To answer your question though, this is something we can, and will, talk about during the Combat balance
Yes, Black Sun Razor Knucklers will be back in the game after the combat balance
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TH 6/14/04
Waste93 wrote:
How about some info on the combat revamp. There are lots of rumors floating around on this one. And since the answer to just about every question the combat professions ask is "wait for the rebalance" it would be helpful.
Once we get through the Jedi Revamp, I'll be posting lots of thread. We'll have a lot of focus threads and the like and after P9, I'll start making the weekly roundtable have a CB focus to cover specific issues.
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TH 6/10/04
Weaponsmith
Are stun weapons going to see a major rebalance within the future?
Yes. Stun weapons (particularly stun batons) were never intended to be "the weapon" that everyone wants because it is the most effective. SWG’s weapons were always supposed to have a variety of useful and efficient weapons available, but here again, with all the tweaks and changes over the last 8+ months have caused a series of imbalances. This is definitely something that will be looked at during the combat balance.
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TH 7/15/04: I will be immediately working with the correspondents and the community to develop a list of pre-combat balance fixes
Gary Gattis's State of the Game Letter (around pub 8!): We are cranking on the Combat Balance, and we think development on it will span 2 more publishes.
So...which is it? Were we lied too? mislead? or ???
Message Edited by BlueCelt on 07-16-2004 07:26 PM
This says it all...........
SomaIcarus wrote:
TH, this is an honest question that i'm hoping you'll see...
Why didn't SOE hire more dev's? You guys are obviously stretched thin btwn JTL, Publish 10, the combat rebalance and the Smuggler Revamp... You guys would be at the head of the MMOPRG race if you had the equivalent of 2 full teams working right now. Actually, you wouldn't be in this situation right now if you guys were better staffed.
Sincerely,
Mox Shehalis