Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever

Daveydje
Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:21 pm
#1834

It's interesting actually... I read way way back in this thread a comment from a games industy person saying that basically the CRM people (like TH) are seen as irritating little insects that get told anything just to get rid of them... Reading RamhormSWG's post, you really start to see how true that is...


TH has a tough job, as he can really only be as effective as the information he's fed...


Hopefully, some of the outrage show in the posts about the way SOE treat their customers will help them see they needto sort out theircustomer relations. I think, although people are upset about the CB being moved, if we hadn't been lied to in the first place, this wouldn't have been such a huge issue.





• Davel •
• Europe-Infinity •

DarkLordFett
Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:37 pm
#1835

Guess I'll post my 2 credits. Like it'll make any difference to most people.

My first account was activated 4 days into Live. I've seen nearly every update, hot-fix, nerf
and general change. I started into Bounty Hunter before Player Cities and Mounts. I've suffered
the horrors of bugs, game-breakers and failed promises(too bad I'm too lazy to look for the original
press releases about the BH profession). Through my alt/Holo-grinder, I've mastered all but 5
professions, 2 of which I'm working on right now.


You came, you whined, you cancelled. You begged. Pleaded. Threatened. What did it get you?
Nada. Threatening to cancel account's doesn't mean much, let alone work. There are forces
and pressures on the Development team that I'm sure none of us know about. With as many
outstanding issues as are left, I must appluad the Devs for what they've done in the last
year. This game is far and above better than it was. I've still had my fair share of doubts
as to their sanity at times.

Things still need to be changed. Badly. Combat Balance and the general state of the
Galactic Civil War really should be top priorities at this point. The penny-pinchers in the
background probably have the most to do with the push for JTL than anything.

Bottom line: Bolster the subscriber base with JTL; Fix Core game issues; Go on from there.
That's what we're looking at people. Get used to it, or go home and cry to mama.

To TH, JustG, Shug and the rest of you crazy cats at SWG central: /cheers and have one on me.

Just gonna keep on keepin' on and see what happens.

P.S. Flame all you want. Don't bother me none.



Raiso Daketh - Master Bounty Hunter & Pistoleer
Tisal Daketh - Master Creature Handler/Smuggler
??????? - Jedi
Ayu'HA Tahu - Master Armorsmith & Tailor(No shop as yet)

FR33K
Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:49 pm
#1836

^ ^ ^ reallly wants to get into JTL beta



Donmeka
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:26 pm
#1837

id rather have becoming a jedi out of the game then having a revamp. one day 90% will be a jedi then the game will be Fn retarded. If i see a lotmore jedi then i feel necessaryafter pub 10 my cancellation button is looking kinda pretty



Your friendly neighborhood thug
"Give the man a gun, he's superman. Give him 2 and he's God"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SpinningCloud wrote(on jedi using FD):
"Think of it, you drive up to someone and they fall over 'dead' before a shot is fired...sure, like I believe the Jedi died of a heart-attack, lol."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BornEvile
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:28 pm
#1838

lol darlord


first a catastrophic exodus of players has very far reaching effects,any game publisher wil tell you that .meaninf even a very sharp 1-10% exodus is like blood in the water,it firstly effects the day to day budget of that title,think not? think again as soe job is to make money,when sharp declines are noticed heads roll,departments are optimized,ie devs go by by.


second,when that subscriber and developer departure becomes common knowledge,all the intellectual talent starts to do 2 things sweat and look for alternate employment.


third when dapartures become public knowledge thru game sites and mags,it has a domino effect,as m,any chose what to try based on those articles.


SWGhas to step very carefully here lest this start teh process they cant weather,soe wont do swg if its hemoraging money.


So regardless of jtl swg and soe are in a very precarious situation here,1-10k folks leave this game and the callapse will start.


i cant blame soe for wanting jtl,i can blame swg devs for agreeing to it,as they know darn well they cant do both that and the core game needs.


ive cancelled 3 accounts and so have many many others,and you think all those folks talkin to all there friends in other games will go unnoticed?...hardly


no we wont kill the game in short order,but sswg/soe is managing that pretty well,well let them handle that without our hard earned money to throw away
Gunga000
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:34 pm
#1839

Remove Jedi from all servers, get rid of the Force Sensitve Trees. How about you just freaking fix multiple mod skill tapes? How about fixing squad leader? Your race track was broke last night too. How about you just fixing the basics of the game first? This is unreal. How can you mess a game up like this? So much potential and so much of disappointment.




GIGGS
NSPYN

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
Saratoga
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:42 pm
#1840

TH


We are frustrated you keep giving us bad news with no good news. Sure the JTL Beta was announced, but that isnt for quite some time. You announced the Jedi village, but you just dont get it... people are pissed that Jedi took presidence over the combat balance.


You asked us for what quick fixes we want in combat while we wait for unscheduled comprehensive combat balance. Where are the DEV thoughts on what can be done? To many this isnt something that can take a week to think over and a month to develop. This is something we expect to be in game next week.


This is what I am expecting next week at a minimum:

1. Carbine increased damage, reduced HAM costs, states stick better, more defense, and more speed. Make the elite carbine AP 3 and give it a little more damage.

2. Pistol - increased damage, specials fixed, add more defenses, and make the DL 44 (Han Solo's pistol and iconic weapon) have AP 2 or AP 3 and more damage.

3. Commando - Make the HAR AP2 and add more defenses.

4. at master level all combat professions should have the exact same amount of melee, ranged, and state defenses (need to increase dizzy and KD to stop the KD/dizzy I win button and make the game more of a slug fest) Both ranged and melee mitigation need to be in each profession.

5. stims need to heal mind damage. pet stims can now so the code is already there.

6. Remove SBDs and BDs or nerf them significantly. The vette and bunker should be reduced in difficulty. They will keep us occupied while we wait. Right now only a small % of the population enjoys these slaughter fests. Mandolorian armor should be as "rare" as Jedi in this time period.

7. The E11 carbine and E 11 rifle should be the weapon of choice for carbineers and rifleman. Increase damage and increase to AP2. This is the weapon we saw stormtroopers run with. Easy way to fixthe damage is get rid of the plumbum iron requirement and make it iron or better yet metal.

8. reduce buffs by 20%

9. increase loot. We are like kids... give us more toys and we are happier. You can balance all that in your combat/game balance

10. Allow CHs to have higher level pets. These guys got nerfed hard and they really need a bone.


Have the team concentrate on these changes and any other easy ones Monday - Wednesday, test center on Thursday, and patch on Friday. Even if you cannot get them all it will at least demonstrate the SOE cares about the state of the game and the current customers and isnt entirely concentrating on the profit due to Jedi and JTL.



Triston Jedi Fugitive (retired)
Nagamitsu 12 point WS/AS + arch (retired)
Jengi wookiee ranger (retired)
Medreka Doctor/musician (retired)
Caillech MBH (soon to be retired)
-SanGreal-
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:45 pm
#1841



TechBoss wrote:
Ponder this:
JTL is an expanision to the core game which is accessed through spacecraft. Players will have to acquire a spacecraft before they can enter the space flight sim. This brings up some very key points that a lot of people seem to be missing:
  • Based on the requirements for speeders, anywhere form 4250 to 8000 units of resources, space craft will be the most resource and component intensive craftable items in the game. This translates into craft costing hundreds of thousands of credits, possibly over a million for some models.
  • These credits will need to be obtained through combat ultimately.
  • I bet that the factional craft schematics will have to be bought from recruiters with faction points, again comes down to combat and/or credits.

JTL will only complicate the problems with combat as more people will be looking for the cash cow professions that can join the "solo-groups" to make loads of credits quick. People seem to miss the point that you will have to play the ground game to gain access to the space game.

SOE, fix the ground game before you release JTL.

BTW, 2x accounts will not be renewed.






You start with a ship when you buy JTL.

That being said, what SOE doesnt seem to understand is that JTL's launch will be much like AED. They will get a spike in new and reactivated accounts followed by a steady decline unless it is complimented by a solid ground game. It almost seems as if SOE is abandoning the ground game with the hopes that space will be fun enough to keep everyone occupied long enough for them to get their act together and fix the core issues.



---
Sulaxe -- Kettemoor -- Master Swordsman/Master Brawler
Sangreal -- Chilastra -- Master Tailor/Master Armorsmith
Exalus -- Kettemoor - Master Weaponsmith/Master Smuggler
UID < 500 Club
"Looking forward, we think there are three major systems that we need to address before we launch into Space: Combat Balance, the Jedi System, and the Galactic Civil War." -- Gary Gattis
LooMacklin
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:48 pm
#1842

I wonder how many of you ripped-off smugglers are going to be silencedwith thisLightspeed Beta Test thing.


It's a great way to shut people up who havelegitcomplaints, and really increases the number of cheerleader posts (brown-nosing) hoping that it somehow increases their chances of getting in. Yes, pathetic isn't it?


Smugglers have been ignored sincebefore dayone !


Every month that passes without the promised changes being advanced at all is business done in bad faith as far as I'm concerned. We wanted to play a certain character type, put our money down, and one year later the classremains a complete joke!


Have fun slicing.. slicing and slicing ..


DULL!!!


Kalor_Kast
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:49 pm
#1843

Something also really need to be done about regular players being nothing but high end greif content for FRS Jedi, force run (should not be activated in combat), saber block (needs a counter besides melee), force healing ((should not be able to use with status effects or on their back) and not losing xp on DB <- This is a must you have basically given Jedi zero penalties and the ability to be a super class. For to long you guys have catered to every need of these Jedi, after promising the path would be hard, I for one am sick of it. Fix the real issues.



Kalor Kast - Master Bounty Hunter of Shadowfire

Danid Star - Master Doctor / Teras Kasi of Lowca
Gunga000
Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:52 pm
#1844

Exactly, fix the real issues. Now with the combat balance pushed back, jedi can enjoy this game even more.




GIGGS
NSPYN

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
Gaenjin
Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:27 pm
#1845





Saratoga wrote:


You announced the Jedi village, but you just dont get it... people are pissed that Jedi took presidence over the combat balance.





Jedi is not the first, or the onlyProfession Revamp,that's taken precedence over Combat Balance (CB).


CB was announced during final stages of Cities in December, as a 3 month installment plan beginning after Holidays. At end of January, it was announced it might be delayed because Droid Engineers were getting a revamp, due to a large request of community for a much needed "Star Warsy atmosphere". Not only was there one monthly publish for DE, there were TWO. (like Jedi) They said they'd address CB after. I don't recall anyone blaming Droid Engineers for getting the love over CB.


Then they announced that Image Designers were getting a revamp, because they wanted to make more customization options available to the "social" minded players, and that CB was being delayed indefinite (public outcry) then changed until Summer (no set date). CB was delayed for Image Design... yet no one complained about ID getting the love over CB.


Then they decided that "hmm, hologrinding is ruining the game" (duh) and that they wanted to rework the entire Jedi system in a 2-part publish. Combat Balance was NOT announced as delayed at this time, it was instead actually given a schedule into the Publish 10 release. Jedi = very touchy subject with some players who were frustrated at the difficulty, sothey complained loudly that Jedi should just be removed instead of pre-empting Combat Balance. (forgetting that CB wasfinally placed into a publish schedule at this time)


Jedi class Revamp was completed. Force Sensitive System is now in the development stages, then SOE announces that they are now delaying the CB until after JTLS releases, due to "needing the entire team to accomplish the task of Combat Balance". Their decision has absolutely nothing to do with Jedi... they didn't say that they need everyone working on Publish 10, they said they need to get past JTLS integration with the current game, before dealing with Combat Balance.


But yet I see several posts trying to blame Jedi revamp for the delay. NO, WRONG. This is the 3rd time that CB has been postponed and it's due to JTLS, not anything related to Jedi. Matter offact, it wouldn't matter if nothing was being done with Jedi right now, they would still delay the CB until after JTLS.


So if everyone is going to throw blame, at least throw it accurately. I'm not debating whether or not Jedi is "chronologically correct" with the game's timeline, or whether Dev time would be better spent on fixing some other class that is not waiting on the CB... I am simply pointing out that Jedi has absolutely nothing to do with the delay to CB, in fact the Jedi revamp was designed to be balanced **with** the CB as part of Publish 10, so Jedi are actually more"broken"than the rest of the Combat profs for the next 6 months.


I agree that Jedi should not be in this timeline. But I do recognize the marketability and player desire for Jedi, it's what makes Star Wars, "Star Wars", so I understand why they prefer to place emphasis on the Force portion of the game. SOE is a business out for profits and has accountability to stock share-holders, they are not a non-profit fan club running this game simply for the pleasure and adulation of Star Wars fans. But, I'd still prefer to see them move the timeline ahead to immediately after the Emperor's death, it would make things more accurate all around. (Rebel to Imp ratio, etc.) That's my wish as to what would make this wholegame more "Star Wars" to me, but obviously I'm not going to get that wish. So I take it for what they give me and hope they'll eventually move the timeline forward past all of this "arguable accuracy of the timeline".

mega3113
Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:34 pm
#1846





99% of the people posting here wrote:

BLA BLA, CRAP CRAP, WHINE WHINE, CRAP, WHINE, BLA!!

SOE is a company that wants to make money, yes? how do they do that? BY HAVING PEOPLE PLAYING THEIR GAME!! why on earth would they do something against nearly ALL their subscribers if they didn't find it 100% nesesary! THEY WOULDNT!

If SOE thinks that the CR needs to be delayd/pushed a little back, they are probaly right! They know the game better than ANY of you whining sorry sods..

give them a break.. the game is how they make their living, so they probaly want it all working faster, better and smarter than anyone


Flame away.. oh and remeber to breath while typing, or take small pauses to overcome your stupidity!






Someone who obviously never worked in a corporate environment. Stupidity doesn't begin to describe most decisions made by management. After all the idiocy I've seen working at various companies I swear corporations only make money accidently, in spite of themselves.


Most posts here have been well reasoned. You're the one in a rage. Maybe you might want to take a breath and stop projecting.


It's extremely obvious that the only reason JTL is the focus now is so they can get it out before Christmas. That's it. It's not to make SWG a better game. It's not to make the CB better. It's not to do their best for the community of paying subscribers. It's not because it's 100% necessary. It's to have their expansion out for the Christmas season. In upper management's mind Christmas = $$$. Only it doesn't work that way if your game is fundamentally broken.


It'syour standardupper management short sighted decision that no underling had the balls to question because they are so busy kissing @ss to getpromotion. That, and not your mythical "necessity", is the engine behind this lunacy.


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