Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
BidoXP
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:26 pm
#170
Jerry076 wrote:
I like the idea that was suggested earlier, with hidden modifiers in your character that give you access to Force Sensitivity. E.g.
25 Badges- +75 Force Sensitive Skill Points
Hermit Quest- +50 FSSP
PVP rating x- +50 FSSP
X Vendor Sales- +X FSSP
Length of time played- +x points
etc...
This way it would ensure that people are playing the game. It should be something that no one can grind, but that everyone can do. You don't play specifically for a FSCS, your normal playstyle determines whether or not you get it. Then the path from FS to jedi can be long and arduous
yep this is a great idea, no grinding just go out and play the game. not only that it keeps people playing the game over a period of time and people get a chance to go out and explore whats been created. in my eyes this suits everyone as it isnt a grind, it isnt frustrating and people are out thier having fun which is what its all about
DML6589
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:28 pm
#172
I think becoming force sensitive should be a known. A lot of the complaining and arguing within the game stem from the mystery behind discovering what the FS path is. I think if it was spelled out for people- there would be increase in gameplay as well as a better morale between those that already Jedi and those that are trying to go down the Fs path.
josfe
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:29 pm
#173
I think people forget that "Force Sensitivity" in the new system doesn't automatically equate to jedi. By making the system mysterious your going to really "stick it to" the crafting professions. Crafters with force sensative skills are obviously better crafters than others because they have more experimentation and various other abilities. If the system is "mysterious" then you'll get certian crafters on the server who are able to create much better products simply because they've got Force Sensitive skills. This will majorly upset a number of the crafting professions, especially if it's something kept secret by the developers.
Eventually this information is going to be figured out by the players but until then your giving specific crafters a very long "strong hold" on quality items. This is extremely unfair to both the crafters who have to compete, and the buyers who will be charged inflated prices for these higher quality items. So I don't believe that Force Sensitivity should be mysterious.
snyker
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:34 pm
#174
Why pre-holocron failed
You gave us too big of a search space and expected too much effort along one search vector (in order to meet your expectations for how long it would take for someone to unlock).
Why post-holocron failed
You gave us too small of a search space. Once people realized it was within the space of professions, or at least included them, they were willing to grind.
Summary
Mystery might work, as long as you:
You gave us too big of a search space and expected too much effort along one search vector (in order to meet your expectations for how long it would take for someone to unlock).
Why post-holocron failed
You gave us too small of a search space. Once people realized it was within the space of professions, or at least included them, they were willing to grind.
Summary
Mystery might work, as long as you:
- Do not make the search space small enough to be grindable.
- Do not make the search space small enough to get figured out.
- Do not give out hints or feedback that narrows the space to grindable. In fact, I would suggest never giving hints or feedback. Maybe add a random, large play-time padding from last checkbox to notification just to make sure.
- Do not expect players to behave randomly. In other words, don't expect a player to randomly sample all aspects of the game to a significant extent.
- If we are not unlocking as fast as expected, try to reduce the hidden requirements, not the mystery.
Suba
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:35 pm
#175
ArjunThakur wrote:Mysterious and Unknown.Although current Jedi will say Mysterious and Unknown, and non-Jedi will say Known path, so this is a pretty loaded questionMessage Edited by ArjunThakur on 07-10-2004 02:06 PM
This really highlights a big problem with asking. Hes absolutely right. Jedi dont care they are gonna say make it so hard it takes 2 years to unlock for all we care. They have it already they dont give a crap what happens they have it so the harder you want to make it the happier they will be.
It was Said since announcing the chnages coming to the Force that it would be a known system. You also said though it wasnt going to just be a cakewalk either. an Open System is not gonna kill Server economies like Holo grinding and as written below:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:I believe the path should be known, the stories however presenting mysteries to be unraveled or puzzles to be solved.Keeping it a mystery has only encouraged animosity between those who have, and those who do not. The system was known for far too long, to change it now to something 'mysterious' is not going to go well with those of us who made a specific choice not to sacrifice the professions that made our characters who they were.
I Gave up after doing 20 Professions to return to normalcy in the Game. Many Servers are still screwed up and trying to recover from the Mess HoloGrinding caused. You Setup a system so tough and mysterious that it was a big screwup and you had to throw out the mystery etc just so people could unlock cause it wasnt happening. At least if its all quest based sure people will still grind the quests thats unavoidable but you know what? They arent flipping through a new profession every few days ruining the game. They will be using whatever profession they have doing th enew content without hurting the server and its economy.
To have the jedi say "Sure make it harder then hell" is just retarded. What it is now is the jedi like being able to control everything. They got thier little councils all set and locked down. New blood only offers them competition.
And as stated with regard to crafters. The New force sensative skills offer them bonuses to crafting etc. By Hiding it your gonna set up the Uber crafters again who think its alright to charge 300K for a normallycrafter gun but since they are special with thier force skills they feel they deserve the right. The whole point of the force skills were to offer players bonuses and the potential if they pursued it to be a jedi. Not everyone is gonna want to be a jedi. PVP and non stop creature killing isnt everyones favorite thing is this game. I know people who have been dancers or crafters from day one and still are to this day. They do it cause they enjoy it and thats thier playstyle not the You must kill 5 Enraged Dune Kimogila or whatever you want to lay out before people.
Force Sensitive Skills while they dop lead to becoming a Jedi do not automatically make ti so every person is gonna be a jedi. You got alot of people who love the idea of just a 2nd character slot without having to buy another game and have more monthly fees
Message Edited by Suba on 07-10-2004 06:37 PM
GroteMan
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:37 pm
#176
My vote... make it known! This game is about having fun, for those that have not unlocked but want to, the process shouldn't be a frustrating mystery. The whole reason I did not pursue unlocking before was that nothing about the holo grind seemed fun. I thinkthat making the path to force sensitivity an engaging and long series of quests is the right way to go, with the start of the path well known to all.
IMHO if the way to unlock in the future is kept a secret it will lead to another form of holo grinding, where people are out endlessly doing mindless things in the hopes that they will stumble across the solution. Once the solution is found it will be posted on these boards and elsewhere, then the work that went into making the system a mystery wil have been for naught.
For the past three months most of the development time has gone into enhancing the jedi system, it would be a shame to keep that system hidden from a large portion of the player community. Continuity has long since gone the way of the dodo, the game is about having fun at this point. Lets make the system that has received so much attention accessible to all, as fast as they wish to receive it.
The quest should be tailored to the individual so that crafters don't have to become fighters, entertainers don't have to become crafters, ect... The path should have twists and turns in it with perhaps some guess work and luck of the individual coming into play, but the start of the path needs to be well known. There also needs to be in place a system to help those that become "stuck" so that there is always forward progress being made. The quest themselves should be something that can be done by the individual with the help of a small group, to avoid the large powerful guilds from running roughshot over everyone else. After all Luke hade his small group of close friends to help him, Obi Wan to guide him, and Yoda to train him.
To summarize MAKE THE START OF THE PATH WELL KNOWN. Draw from the ideas that have been presented and above all make it fun and engaging.
Gro'tar
BlueHorizion
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:46 pm
#177
JustG wrote:
....Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.....
Heeyyy now...
If I didnt know any better I'd think you were trying to pull a fast one on me here JustG!
Taken from Jedi Archive Number 2...
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Force Sensitivity
Players will have to complete a series of quests in order to enable their Force Sensitive Skills. These quests are for anyone who has not yet completed the existing Jedi path, regardless of how many professions they have mastered. These quests represent Jedi Revamp Part 2: The Jedi Trials which will be live in Publish 10. We will discuss the details in future Jedi Archives as we get closer to that publish.We know there are many of you eager to know how the switch to the new Force sensitivity path will affect you, sowe felt we needed to touch on the key points. Credit will be given to players for the professions they have mastered, and that credit is the ability to rapidly advance through the Force sensitivity path. These are skill boxes that enable small gains towards skills a player will be familiar with. These skill boxes will be "Force enhancements" that will augment their existing professional skills to simulate a fictional "Force sensitivity." For example, a player can purchase a box of Crafting Sensitivity and gain a small bonus to crafting. This simulates their character being more in tune with the Force so they may have slightly better reflexes, insights, etc. All these skills are passive and do not generate "Jedi visibility."
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now if this is going to be another thing changed from what you stated in the Jedi Archives I suggest you take the link to the Archivesoffthe"In Development" page because alot of that info iscompletely obsolete.
No offense to you in any way but this is getting a little rediculous now don't you think?
Are you now hinting that there will be another publish devoted to Jedi after Pub10 that wil deal with how you actually become Force Sensitive?
I believe we were all under the assumption that Pub 10 would introduce the new way of becoming FS and make the old holo-grind obsolete is this true? Or does it only deal with the path to Jedi from FS and there will be yet another publish devoted to the actual unlocking of Force Sensitivity.
To stay on topic, I believe the path to becoming FS should be a good fun, engaging, and non-life-consuming mix of the two.
realvorda
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:47 pm
#178
For me it should be a combination of both..
the mysterious factor should defently be part of it, but I as player want to have the feeling I'm working towards something as well..
ps: lol @ vote: 51-49
the mysterious factor should defently be part of it, but I as player want to have the feeling I'm working towards something as well..
ps: lol @ vote: 51-49
ARC_Casper
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:49 pm
#179
I think it needs to be balanced out to where people know what is expected of them to become FS but not know how close they are from getting it, otherwise you just have people "hologrinding" just without the holocrons. It is a very touchy issue/system i am sure but lets get it right this time and not have to come back to revisit it again.
LgEnder
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:56 pm
#180
Your missing two options.Starts mysterious and fades to known, starts as known thenfades tomysterious.
Thunderheart wrote:
DaHowler wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
I put up a poll, "Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one?" - - go weigh in your vote
Where can you find the poll? I can't seem to locate it?
Thanks
Go to the main forum...
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg
It should be right over the Dev Tracker
LLJK_Griz
Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:01 pm
#181
Does it really matter? It's hard to make anything "mysterious" when all the dialogue in the game is available in unencrypted data files, and the guys on TC seem to be able to figure everything out before it hits Live (hero of tatooine quest, etc).
"Mysterious" probably means "more random tedious crap like holocrons that we can stealth-nerf like we did with holocrons and no one will really notice" so my vote is against that. Not that it really matters, because I'm just a worthless non-jedi peon.
swgmongo
Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:01 pm
#182
a better question: do you want all characters in SWG to be a jedi or not?