Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
BlueHorizion
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:49 pm
#157
Hojo_Hominygrits wrote:
It needs to be known. Stop with the mystery crap. As I said in the other thread, you had your shot at "mystery" and it was a huge failure. You guys need to make the Force accessible for everyone at varying levels. Be it the hardcore powergamer, or the guy with a wife and kids who only gets a few hours a day to play your game, we should all have access. I don't want to be denied because I have to jump through unknown magical hoops for 6 months to a year to become force sensitive. I want to know what I'm doing, and where I stand on my journey to Force sensitivity. And I want to see progress in a reasonable amount of time. That gives me a goal, and it keeps me playing.
It's quite obvious to you I'm sure that Star Wars, in spite of all its many other aspects, will ALWAYS be about Jedi and The Force. Many of us were running around with wiffle-ball bats pretending to be Jedi when we were kids. When we "played" at Star Wars, no one wanted to be anything BUT a Jedi. At least, not any of the kids I played Star Wars with. You're seeing just that in your game. At this point it's the understatement of the century that a lot of people are passionate about Jedi. So why put some limit on it? Make it rare and special on the back end (to quote another poster). Make the fight against the elements in the game (players and non-players) the limiting factor, but don't deny people from at least experiencing it. That's just plain dumb. So give the "mystery" junk a rest and give us our Force.
Message Edited by Hojo_Hominygrits on 07-10-2004 01:13 PM
This has to be the most logical response I've heard. Very flat out blunt, and addesses the problem.
I think you Devs need to each take a nice mile run to clear your heads, take a shower, meet, order take-out and sit down at a nice long table and think this one through into the midnight hours.
Take your time and dont rush, you make too many mistakes that way : D
pcjr
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:50 pm
#158
"Mechanic" is a word I get stuck on. If by "mechanic" you mean stab in the dark grinding, then no, I think mystery will equal frustration.
If mystery involves well placed npcs and story like bread crumbs dropped as hints along the way, then yes, I'm all for mystery!
I don't know. Maybe if you clarified what you mean by "mechanic?"
If mystery involves well placed npcs and story like bread crumbs dropped as hints along the way, then yes, I'm all for mystery!
I don't know. Maybe if you clarified what you mean by "mechanic?"
Suba
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:51 pm
#159
I would honestly think they learned thier lesson the first time. They did the hidden system and it was so bad they had people moments away from unlocking but never unlocking. It got to the Poiint they had to stop hiding the system just to get it going. So why would you want to hide it again? The Player Base is just gonna get negative even worse and Enough people honestly are getting bored of the game and with JTL not out for a few months you risk running people out.
It Should be known. What people dont understand is just cause its known doesnt mean its gonna be a cake walk. For all we know they could have it just as hard as the knight trials. Sure we can know everything but if its as hard as that stuff doesnt matter.
It Should be known. What people dont understand is just cause its known doesnt mean its gonna be a cake walk. For all we know they could have it just as hard as the knight trials. Sure we can know everything but if its as hard as that stuff doesnt matter.
Yosho_Tarien
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:53 pm
#160
I vote for mysterious, but not impossible to figure out.
Which means that different players should have different means of unlocking and they should get "hot/cold" messages appearing. Say you start talking to a random NPC and get a message saying "You feel a strange affinity for %TT." Meaning you should do whatever quests they assign. Or "You feel a need to go north." which directs you to a hidden FS POI. Basically all players are FS, but they need to follow their "intuition" in order to learn how to use it. Make it so that a player has a chance to get one of these random messages within a certain period time.AFKer's probably won't even see the messages until it's too late to act on them, so people who actually play will have an advantage.
Please, no camp/loot fests! Please, please, pretty please!
Kane_Firestalker
Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:57 pm
#161
Nothing you have to camp. Use the dynamic spawning system to spawn the npc's or whatever for that individual player.
It should be something mysterious, but you can't make it impossible, that would be completely unfair to those who haven't unlocked before it was changed 
Number-1-Commando
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:00 pm
#162
pcjr wrote:
"Mechanic" is a word I get stuck on. If by "mechanic" you mean stab in the dark grinding, then no, I think mystery will equal frustration.
If mystery involves well placed npcs and story like bread crumbs dropped as hints along the way, then yes, I'm all for mystery!
I don't know. Maybe if you clarified what you mean by "mechanic?"
Yes! I for one would want this, also make it so we don't know where the NPCs (if any) are, but give us a little bit vague hint of where they could be. Making it known off the bat would make a explosion of the whole player base camping where the FS missions are.
So, simply make it unknown at first, with vague hints to where it is. For example, "There are many wise men across this planet, but only one has a special gift". The answer is Obi-wan. So, you go to Obi-wan's hut and bam! there u go 
. It would make it more of a search quest. And definitely fun for guilds, spreading out to find it 
.
. It would make it more of a search quest. And definitely fun for guilds, spreading out to find it .
Dmarty24
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:12 pm
#163
Unfortunitly, I feel the vote is going to be a little bias'd, the already Jedi's are going to want it unknown and mysterious, so they can make it harder for someone else to join their ranks and less competition for them and the non-Jedi's are going to want it known, so they can be a jedi. (I ain't a jedi) and yes I want it known and I did vote. Everyone should be able to be a jedi not just powergamers. There is no way myself as a casual player could I of done the 32 professions or so, I managed to do 6 of them. I could of done more, mabye 3 more but that would of made the game boring and probably would of quite.
I have a question not about this thread but about the subject? Have the dev's firgured out what compensation the folks that mastered alot of professions but didn't unlock there force prior to publish 9?
Number-1-Commando
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:14 pm
#164
Dmarty24 wrote:
Unfortunitly, I feel the vote is going to be a little bias'd, the already Jedi's are going to want it unknown and mysterious, so they can make it harder for someone else to join their ranks and less competition for them and the non-Jedi's are going to want it known, so they can be a jedi. (I ain't a jedi) and yes I want it known and I did vote. Everyone should be able to be a jedi not just powergamers. There is no way myself as a casual player could I of done the 32 professions or so, I managed to do 6 of them. I could of done more, mabye 3 more but that would of made the game boring and probably would of quite.
I have a question not about this thread but about the subject? Have the dev's firgured out what compensation the folks that mastered alot of professions but didn't unlock there force prior to publish 9?
I'm not a jedi, i haven't unlocked yet. However, i still want it somewhat of an unknown.
IgescaStorm
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:15 pm
#165
Thunderheart wrote:
I put up a poll, "Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one?" - - go weigh in your vote
Make a third option: "Both" !!!
If it is known, everybody will grinding FS.
Grinding FS = All the same chars on all servers.
(Like in another thread mentioned: All crafter will be 14 point armor/weapon smiths etc.)
Message Edited by IgescaStorm on 07-10-2004 05:18 PM
Strikke
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:16 pm
#166
If Publish 10 is now "focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi...", which publish is it that will focus on "how you actually become Force Sensitive"? Jedi ArchivesVolume II said it was Publish 10, but you seem to have revised your roadmap a little.
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
Divvur
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:18 pm
#167
Here aremy ideas, simple in practice but quite difficult to explain, but I will try my best.
Everyones path to realising their force sensitivity should be mysterious, random and unique. However, it should not require specific types of skills in order to complete it. Instead the system should encourage you to play your chosen profession as it should be played.
It basically revolves around having a hidden chance revolving around doing things based upon your profession. When your character is created, a random number, between 20-30 (remember all numbers can be tweaked so please don't dismiss the idea because of the example numbers given), is assigned to a player. This is how many Force Sensitive Events people need to become Force Sensitive.
A Force Sensitive Event can be anything, and is based upon the allocation of skillpoints for professions. Basically, when someone does an action involved with their profession, there is a slim random chance that it was a Force Sensitive Event.
For example, when a Brawler kills an NPC in combat, there is a 1 in 100,000 chance that they will have completed a Force Sensitive Event. When this happens, they will get a message saying something like: 'You anticipate your enemiesnext move with a strange certainty and responded to it with reflexes faster than you knew you were capable off, defeating your enemy.' Obviously, the chance will be modified by a certain number of factors, such as how powerful the enemy is, and how many skill points are devoted to such professions. A Novice Brawler killing one of Jabba's Thugs is less likely to cause a Force Sensitive Message to appear than someone who has spent 250 points onCombat professions killing a high end mob at the end of a cave quest. The idea is to challenge yourself in your chosen field.
Obviously the Brawler example cannot be applied to all professions, so here are few ideas for Force Sensitive Events for other professions:
Scouts - Someone who is a Scout or a Ranger would have a chance every time they killed a creature, or perhaps used a trap, getting a similar message saying 'You anticipate the creatures next move with astrange clarity and respond instinctively using your knowledge of the creature'. Obviously killing a high level creature, such as a Krayt Dragon has a greater chance of an event happening.
Artisans - Players invovled in an Artisan profession have a chance every time they craft an object of creating an event. The crafting or rare loot items, such as a Geonosian Pistol or RIS armour would increase the chances.A message such as 'You have an unusual certainty on exactly how you should put this specific item together so it is a good quality item'. Increasing some of the attributes on the specific item when this happens would be a nice touch.
Smuggler - When being searched, a Smuggler has a chance of persuding someone that they are not carrying anything against all odds. A message such as 'The searcher opens a box containing illegal goods. However, they somehow seem to be completely oblivious to the goods and close the box without question' could work. Obviously, being a Hybrid profession Smugglers would also have some chance of causing an event through crafting spices and combat, based on the number of skill points invested in those areas.
Medic - When healing/enhancing another player, you can get a strange feeling about what is wrong with them and how you can cure them. You get a message such as: 'You have an unnatural feeling about exactly what can be done for this patient and use the appropriate medicines to cure them.' Having a bonus to that heal would also be appreciated.
I am sure many more variables for different professions can be worked it in order to create a system that basically encourages you to do your profession to the best of your ability. Once you have had 20-30 of these Force Sensitive Events, you actually learn how to harness this power in some small way, and gain the Force Sensitive Skill Trees.
It also ensures that every path to Force Sensitivity is different, and no doubt many tales will be retold in Cantinas across the Galaxy about the time a Ranger had an unusual instinct that told them exactly how to kill the Rancor they had been tracking, or the time the local Chef managed has a strange urge to add that extra spice to his Sythsteak to make the tastiest in the Galaxy.
Your input into this idea is most welcome.
Smuggler_Caylin
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:21 pm
#168
I believe the path should be known, the stories however presenting mysteries to be unraveled or puzzles to be solved.
Keeping it a mystery has only encouraged animosity between those who have, and those who do not. The system was known for far too long, to change it now to something 'mysterious' is not going to go well with those of us who made a specific choice not to sacrifice the professions that made our characters who they were.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Stakex007
Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:26 pm
#169
Making the path to be Force sensitive unknown will yet again appeal to the power gamers only. It was stated when the game was still in development that the devs wanted to keep the game fair for everyone. The only way this can be done is by letting everyone know how it happens...
If it is unknown power gamers will have many hours a day to work to figure out how to do it... As where it will take the casual gamer much longer in the long run to disscover the system. So it is clear that the only true fair way to do the system would be to make it so everyone knows it.