Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-12: Combat Roles; Rifleman
sk8punk wrote:
The rifle needs much more range...64m isn't even a football field!! In PvP against gunfighters of equal ability they don't stand even the slightest of chances.Even with the first shot!!!The rifleman should be a long range death machine, able to kill things that can't even see him at the distance he's at. We currently in real life have snipers that can kill from up to two miles, thats approx. 3.5 km or 3500m in game terms. There's an edge. All would fear the quick death a sniper could bring.
Ya, and you wouldn't see a single person as anyone other then a sniper anymore...Increase the range on rifles and then everyone becomes a riflemen, why choose to limit yourself in range by being a crappy pistoleer or carbineer or BH or commando when you could be a riflemen and fight with impunity? lol..also, if they give riflemen more range they'd have to make the turrets have more range, which is another reason why no one would want to be anything other then a riflemen...Can anyone point me to the thread asking for riflemen to be turned into gods, I know it's around here somewhere...
Snowloc wrote:
Ok I have thought on this and did some research. People have brought up that rifleman are machine gunners and sniper. When I here machine gunner I think of a guy with a 50 caliber machine gun holding a position with supperation fire. When I hear sniper I think of a lone person with a high caliber single shot rifle with a powerful scope adjusted to give max accaurcy at max range. As you notice the weapons I speak of are two different things.
1. What defines a rifleman in combat?
I think of a rifleman as a sniper. He looks for leaders and other trouble makers from concealment and cover. ( There is a difference between cover and concealment. ) A rifleman then takes the target out.
2. What basic combat elements should they possess?
The rifleman needs to have a good rifle, the ability to find cover, and capability to conceal them selfs from detection. Rifleman also need to move with stealth.
3. What offensive abilities?
The rifleman needs the ablity to do great amount of damage in a short amount of time. Reason for this is time is the enemy for a sniper. It allows an enemy to find and take out the sniper.
4. What defensive abilities?
The rifleman need the ability to find cover and consealment. Cover is how much of you is out in the open. Consealment is how well you blend in with your enviroment. These are need as cover makes it harder to hit and consealment makes you harder to see.( reduction in damage taken and reduction to hit)
5. What unique abilities?
The riflman ( sniper ) usually hit the head or heart of the victim. The ability to not show up on radar if covered and concealed. Plus not automatically be targeted on the first shot.
6. Should add what abilities or asset in a group combat?
With the above the sniper can help take down key personal in group combat.
7. How could/should they interact with other professions?
The rifleman would need the weaponsmith and rangers plus the other support classes. weaponsmiths for good rifles, ranger for the camo that they make. The other support class are just as easy to figure out.
8. What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
This is already covered with the above.
9. What should be thier unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
The same role snipers in past wars to take out key personnel.
As you can see I do not see the rifleman as a mechine gunner that should be left to the cabineers. Marksman is your grunt range and brawler is you grunt close combat. Those two skills togetherwould equal the average soldier in any army. Give the cabineer the counter sniper abilitys and give rifleman the ability to use the ranger camo skill ( not the ability to make the camo).
I know alot of the above abilities are in the riflemans profession. I just gave my apinion and how I saw the class.
thank you
Snowloc
What defines theRiflemanrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Rifleman was a very long and hard road compared to my other profession, Master CH. It was less than exciting to complete, but the rewards once I reached Master were highly impressive.
What offensive abilities?
Offensive abilities (special moves) seem to be somewhat limited for the Master Sharpshooter, but I would like to see a flushingshot3 added for Masters. I use flushingshot2 almost exclusively in battle. In fact, I would trade it for Strafeshot2. Strafe does nothing for me in either npc or PvP combat. The snipershot is right on-point however, and is highly effective in PvP and prevents anyone fighting alongside you for getting credit for someone YOU incapped.
What defensive abilities?
Defense for the Rifleman is limited, but I cannot say I can complain about it, the character is balanced out DUE to the fact that as Master you can hit effectively from 65m, machine-gun style. Still, if I could wish my way into an improvement, I'd like some kind of defense or counterattack ability against commandos ability to set me on fire.
What unique abilities?
As stated above, flushingshot3. The dizzy ability is effective most of the time, as is the flushingshot2, as well as the snipershot. I would love to be able to have some kind of blinding attack, but maybe that's wishing for too much.
Also, the Suppression Fire is very limited in its effectiveness. I would like to see its effectiveness improved.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Since Rifleman can have a long range attack, they can obviously 'see' better than most close-range combatants. The other day, I was stalked and attacked by a Nightsister Ranger, and the HUD notified me "You are choking!". How about an ability to 'detect' when you are being targeted, so that you can react faster to something (or someone) agroing on you?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Riflemen are completely dependent upon slicers and weaponsmiths, because once you become Master, your gun nerfs itself MUCH more quickly. I would like to see an improvement on the weapons somewhat, I would think that someone that Masters a skill knows how to use a weapon with less effort than someone who is still a Novice. I have to keep 5 T21s and two Advanced Lasers on hand at all times in case one of them starts to go bad in group hunts or PvP situations. And one last thing on my wish list concerning weapons....please change the weapon crafting system to allow the slicers to CHOOSE what they can upgrade on your gun! The slicers can charge different rates for different upgrades, and more people may become slicers as a result of this.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
This is where my biggest gripe comes in. This 'detect' ability I spoke of would be highly effective in PvP against the Commando who has a bit of CM knowledge and likes to poison and disease you while setting you on fire simultaneously.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
2. High accuracy against stationary targets, high accuracy at longer ranges.
3. High damage output should be the offensive capability of a rifleman. I am a fan of the gunner aspect of rifle, so feel free to take our headshot, our snipershot, our conceal shot, but keep the high speed/high damage area attacks of the master rifle.
4. Cover should work, and it should be our main defense. We should loose our mele defense, and keep a high ranged defense. The 2.5x mele modifier should be put back in.
5. High damage cone shots, as well as a high damage single target random ham shot. The 5x damage shot should belong only to riflemen.
6. In a group, riflemen should be the damage dealers. That is their primary role. The pets and H2H folks tank, the carbineers KD, the pistols pistol, and the riflemen do the damage.
7. Riflemen should be the damage dealers while everyone else worries about keeping the baddie off the riflemen.
8. Same as 7.
9. Riflemen and Carbineers should be the main ranged combatants in the GCW. Pistols should be for enhancing H2H folks, giving them a ranged option. Fencer having pistol accuray mods that went along with its fencer trees for example. Carbines should have a lot more "tricks" while rifles are purely concerned with dishing out damage. Cover should have a much bigger effect on PvP. Range mods should be incrreased so that they are greater than +/-50. This would make range actually mean something. At master, riflemen usually hit at point blank, and pistoleers usually hit at 64m. Changing this would make it so that the short/long roles would be much better defined.
PyscoJuggalo wrote:Waste, is'nt the only real difference between a carbine and rifle in real life barrel length?
I'm not too sure thats why I ask.
Yes, barrel lenght is a factor, but there is more than that. Shorter barrel length and a colapsable stock allow for faster movement of the carbine over a rifle. A rifle is made for accuracy over distance, 100-400m IRL, while a carbine is intended for ranges as low as point blank.
Also, the M4 carbine is not the ideal carbine. A better carbine is something like the MP5. It shoots the 9mm bullet, a pistol round. The 9mm slug delivers more knock down power than the 5.56mm round from a m16/m4. This is a importand factor when dealing with the close quaters combat that carbines are used for.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should rely on other players to keep their targets still, as they can't hit a moving target very well.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
The damage penalty means that the Rifleman needs a close combat profession to keep a target away from them.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They specialize in silent killing without notice, so they should have a big role in assasination.
KozakMamalyga wrote:Hi guys I am mostly mastered my rifleman (300K more exp). I like it as is, except 1 thing which looks very strange for me. Who is sniper - person who makes VERY high damage at the range to a single target! In SWG even pistoleer with his FAN shot is more sniper than rifleman. Rifleman instead has useless Startle shot 2. Why don't make it similar to FAN shot?I like this idea, what about you?
Strafe2
It bothers me when people ask for the "complete package" I think we should be the heavy gunners....the mow-em down heavy machine gun nest types. Best damage and armor piecing but less mobility and defenses.
1)What defines theRiflemanrole in combat?
Heavygunner Support. ie Artillery or "Mage-like" in nature
2) What basic combat elements should they possess?
Heavy dmg and Armor piercing
3) What offensive abilities?
Best ranged dmg and armor piercing.
4) What defensive abilities?
Minimal defense. Wielding such heavy arms limits mobility making it difficult to defend.
5) What unique abilities?
Same as current riflemen. AP, Mind Damage, Heavy AOE Damage.
6) Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Good damage against heavily armored, well fortified targets.
7) How could/should they interact with other professions?
Riflemen should be highest dmg dealers but require support from other Combat profs due to their lack of defense
8) What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
see # 7
9) What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Punching holes in all things armored both robo commando and ATAT alike
In SWG the 64m limit would be perfect for the assault rifle type weapons (which don't exist yet as far as I can see, unless you count the spraystick which seems to spray toothpicks or maybe mild insults). The sniper range should obviously be a lot larger, but would be limited by the fact that we have no sniper-scopes (yet, but we can ask santa claus for next year) and so would not be able to see a target over something like 128m (which would be fine for me, and fits with the base-8 number system they seem to have for range and radar).
If the above were actually implemented, the rifleman would still not be "uber" or god-like in battle. We would still have the exorbitant ham costs that get us killed so often when a durni gets in a head-shot from 30m. Everyone would still not rush to become riflemen, as there are so many who think a flame thrower is god's personal dispatcher and still more who can't stand missing a loot opportunity. Not to mention the Zorro, Bruce Lee and Dirty Harry types out there who just prefer close quarter melee madness to lying in the dirt for 10 minutes while your own weapon slowly kills you. And don't forget that pets effectively eliminate range anyway.
Just balance the sniper/assaulter ham costs with weapons. HAM cost directly proportional to range and damage indirectly proportional to speed. Then you can balance weapons accordingly: high speed, lower damage assault rifles with shorter range and low speed, higher damage sniper rifles with longer range. The overall fun of the profession would be dramatically increased without really changing the effectiveness of a rifleman. Just the versatility which we should already have.
S_O
I'd like to echo an early poster on one particular subject -- Melee Defense.
For those of you that have never been through infantry combat training (especially Marine), a rifleman with a decently sturdy assault rifle is not at all helpless in hand-to-hand combat. While not necessarily a martial arts expert, and not expecting the bayonet to carry over into SW, a rifle is a handy implement for clubbing an opponent into submission, AND blocking potentially deadly blows against yourself. I would submit that we should have some significant melee defense when holding a rifle, perhaps not as good as a hand-to-hand specialist, but potentially good enough to block all but the most sophisticated physical blows.
What defines theRiflemanrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
they should be the most feared profession in ranged combat- a huge rifle makes a big diff
What offensive abilities?
they should be able to accuratly and persicely hit enemys where we want, such as an attack to the legs could disable some one, a sniper could easily hit there after training with shooting at smaller targets
What defensive abilities?
rifleman BLOCK? how? can some one really tell me how?
they should have abilites that throw the person into a paniced state sorta like panic shot- bein shot at a sniper aint fun
What unique abilities?
riflemen are snipers- they should have a longer range that 64m, (IMO)
they should be able to hide in bushes unseen in PVP AND PvE
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
awwesome support for meleeists (suppression,ect)
How could/should they interact with other professions?
rifleman is a double edged sword , they are the bane of meelists, but meleeists are the bane of them.
working togheter with a meleeists works good, or with a pistoleer
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Rifleman should be a support class, along with carbineer, pistoleer etc. Either machinegunner or sniper works i imagine. Although it seems that commando would fit the profile of heavy gunner more.
As it stands now, i think all is fine, except that a Rifleman can counterbalance his close range weakness with TKA abilities, maybe there should be some sort of delay or the defensive skills dont necessarily apply when wielding a ranged weapon?