Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Live Issues Publish 9: Secrets of the Force PT II

nolan007
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:26 am
#157



Thunderheart / JustG:


In regards to Jedi TEF:



If you bring back Jedi TEF, the following MUST happen at the same time:



  • Crafted Lightsabers stats have to be around 50% higher for theirMax / Min damage.All crystals and pearls should have a max of +75/+75 as opposed to +50.

    As it stands now, Jedi areweak offensively in PvP.

    We don't do enough damage when you consider intimidate and theuber profession templates.

    Jedi should be able to handle themselves when fightingaTEF mob (that often spend their entire game sessionlooking for a Jedi to TEF attack). Ideally, Jedi should be able to handle themselves witha 12 on 1 encounter.This isStar Wars. Jedi should be the king of the Star Wars universe as far as combat... like it or not.

    Without that kind of combat power for Jedi, it's pointless to even have Jedi in the game.



  • Jedi XP loss at PvP death should be 75k with a cap of -1 million.



  • Combat medics need to be balanced.





Sidenote: Let's not forget that school's out for summer. The forums have shown this due to endless whining, crying,threats, and nerf calls over the last month or so.







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Star Wars vs. Star Wars Galaxies
(Revised 07.07.05)

( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

Daker-Naritus
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:31 am
#158







Thunderheart wrote:


Weapon and Armor Switching/Combat Cue: This is currently not appearing in the combat cue.We are working to see how difficult this is to add it to the cue.When that is known, we’ll know how to prioritize it.I know many ofdon’t like it, but the delay is going to stay for the time being.I have asked the devs to you look for alternative solutions.







Ok....question.....


Why are you asking for this to be inserted into the combat queue, when MOST (not just many) of us hate this change and want it immediately removed?


Doesn't having the developers spend valuable time programming this into the combat queue just make it less likely that the change will ever be reversed?


Doesn't that just just put another nail in the coffin that we are trying to fight our way out of?


I think that considering player desires on this issue, asking for this to be placed in the combat queue is the LAST thing we should ever be asking for. If you are really and truely going to represent our interests, I encourage you to fight this as well as the delay itself.



(NOTE: "Cue" is a prompt to do something...."Queue" is a waiting line.)










12) Jedi Robes not providing enough protection


Lingering Jedi Issue – we are discussing the possibilities.





That is correct. This issue is HUGE because this is the ONLY reason the armor delay nerf was implemented in the first place.


Jedi robes erroneously provide no protection to the wearer, giving Jedi players an incentive to wear conventional armor and macro-switch.


You REALLY need to do the right thing here: Recommend that (1) Jedi Robes be upgraded to have armor resistances that are balanced with the developer views of how powerful Jedi should be; (2) prohibit jedi padawans and above from wearing conventional armor; and (3) Get rid of the armor delay for the 33 classes that have no unbalancing effect from instantaneous armor equipping.


The jedi forums are FILLED with Jedi saying "my robes are so worthless that I never wear them." If you add armor resistances liek the jedi are asking for, the jedi will have no incentive to wear conventional armor, and the developers will have no reason to nerf armor with a equip delay.
Jeren_Sehn
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:32 am
#159







Issue: N.B. Just to be clear, I am not saying that Graul Marauder spawns rates should be increased...though the CSR's constantly misinterpret my description of the bug to mean that. What I am reporting on is a bug that effects all spawns generally, that just happens to apply to Graul Marauders too.


Dantooine spawns are screwed up...unless spawns are intended to work differently there than they do on every other planet. This issue is not solely Jedi related; however, because spawns generally don't work on Dant, finding a Graul Marauder is all but impossible for people who have 9 to 5 (or later) employment.



More specifically, the issue is that spawns seem to work well in the morning after server startup, but by late afternoon the planet is almost devoid of all non-player life. On most planets, if a player kills a spawn, another witll appear to replace it somewhere within a reasonable period of time. On Dantooine, the "new spawn" mechanism has been bugged since launch. As a result, the planet has the max number of spawns at server retsart, and that number dwindles throughout the day, rather than remainling relatively constant. By 5-6 p.m. EST, the planet has almost no natural spawns.


The unfairness of this is that it makes Dantooine unplayable for those of us with regular jobs. Unless you run missions, you can't find enough spawns to make the PvE there useful, unless you can play between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m., at least.


In the past CSR's have told me that I should "just run missions" if I want XP...and I did, butthe bugmeans that Graul Marauders are an "ultra rare" spawnon a planet where any spawnis rare. At present, looking for Graul Maraduers therefore becomes more of a pain than I think the programmers intended.


Some say this issue is too many player cities and not enough server capacity and others (including a CSR on Ahazi) have said its just a bug, but it's an annoying one.Correllia is more dangerous than Dantooine after 5 p.m. and that is a starter planet.



Server: Chilastra, but I hear reports of the same bug on many other servers...and never heard anyone say "not on my server."

Planet: Dantooine


Location (x,y): everywhere except the caves...which seem to spawn correctly



Your profession: Jedi



Instructionson how to recreate the bug: Go to Dantooine after, say 8 p.m. and look for spawns lol.









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wookgunner
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:37 am
#160


Here a couple quotes from the Star Wars official website about jedi to reinforce why they should not be a common site:


When the Empire came to power, the Jedi order was exterminated by Emperor Palpatine, and his Sith Lord apprentice Darth Vader. During the time of the Galactic Civil War, the Jedi were all but extinct.


When the Republic began to decay and the Senate was rife with corruption, the Jedi Bendu took it upon themselves to purge the injustices sweeping the galaxy. Instead, they were branded traitors and executed. Thus the Empire was born.


Led by a young Padawan named Darklighter, who had succumbed to the temptations of the dark side, the evil Sith pirates becamethe emperor's bodyguards and hunted down the remaining Jedi.


Would be interesting to see NPC Sith Pirates hunting jedi that do not join their ranks.




Nagamitsu: Wookiee Master WS/AS/DE
Triston: Master Swordsman/Rifleman Force sensitive, but will never be a Jedi
Medreka: Master Tailor/architect
Builder of Dar'Xun City, Tatooine and Sierra, Dantooine
gaundi
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:47 am
#161

4) Weapon and Armor Switching/Combat Cue: This is currently not appearing in the combat cue.We are working to see how difficult this is to add it to the cue.When that is known, we’ll know how to prioritize it.I know many of you don’t like it, but the delay is going to stay for the time being.I have asked the devs to look for alternative solutions


Suggestions and Fix's:


1. Make it so jedi cannot wear armor..They have robes now that are supposed to do the same thing.


2. Poisons.. Make it so that players/jedi can only be poisoned/diseased/fire every 4 OR 5 seconds.. This will clear the problem with CM's being able to stack poisons 1 /sec. This will also fix the problem with weapons switching. Take the delay off please.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darkoria [SWORD]
S - Spirit W - Will O - Obedience R - Respect D - Devotion

(Former Raid Coordinator and Military leader in STORM) /salute STORM

Daker-Naritus
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:48 am
#162






Seomon wrote:

The Weapon Switch delay has got to go. I understand the armor switch delay because you don't want Jedi macro'ing armor on and off, and I think everyone can deal with that. Making a delay to switch weapons kills the whole point of having other weapons w/ specials to go along with it.








Ahhhhhhh....yeah. Speak for yourself, because I can't.


There is NO reason whatsoever to punish 33 character classes just because it is unbalancing for 1 (jedi) to macro switch armor.

Akinoor
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:08 am
#163


Issue: Locking all Endgame content into one class


Server: All


Planet: All


Location (x,y): x


Your profession: 32/33 classes in SWG


Instructions on how to recreate the bug:

I wouldn't call it a bug, more of an extreme design flaw that as far as I can tell will only grow bigger.


(This is not hostile vs Jedis)


It's no secret that SWG does not have much of an endgame. It's much too easy to master a profession here. It takes a hardcore player 1-3 days to get Master in any profession except Bounty Hunter which may take a week.


This has made SWG very non-elite so far. I've always figured this is the intention with the design and together with the name Star Wars and non-combat friendly environment, this had drawn numerous people who wouldn't have played another MMOG to it.


The difference between players are not in levels or experience (playing time) like many other MMOGs, instead inbalanced classes and equipment is what decides how powerful a character is. Individual skills do matter but only to an extent. Some combat classes cannot compete in PvP while others take less skills to be very powerful.


However the Jedi class is different. In the beginning the idea behind the Jedi class was effort and (mostly) risk vs. reward. Permadeath proved to be too harsch so this was changed into a deathcount system which was a slight move in the direction of effort vs. reward. Jedi TEF still offered a great risk for the Jedi.


In publish 9 the Jedi design took several steps to lower the risks of playing Jedi (outside the FRS): no Jedi TEF, xp loss instead of skill loss, the real xp loss on cloning and less on death. So now the design behind Jedi has gone from risk vs. reward to effort vs. reward.


This is not necessarly bad. I think a game needs to have a lot of effort vs. reward elements, otherwise it gets stale and you get bored with it unless you're always willing to put your own content in it. Right now you can master a profession in a few days and after that all you need is skilltapes and weapons before you've reached your endgame technically. The game doesn't keep track of your accomplishments in any other way than the loot and credits you earn.


This means that out of 33 designed professions, only one offers a system to keep track of your accomplishments: Jedi. The problem with this is that:

1) Not everyone WANTS to play a Jedi but may still have accomplished as much as anyone who took the Jedi path.

2) A game shouldn't be designed around one profession, that is a huge flaw. The current systems locks all hardcore players who doesn't want to fall behind in power into one profession, one path.


So while the argument that Jedis have earned their relative power with their efforts is true, it also points out the flaw with the current game design. Unless I'm willing to follow the path to FS and then level a Jedi, I have not earned the right to be on par with those who has. Therefor, the more power Jedis are given, the more it forces me to also play one.


How fun is this and how would it be if all took that path? Is this what you really want?


I think that by opening up for effort vs. reward for Jedis, you're forced to choose between two things if you want a fair game:

1) Accept that eventually a majority of the players will have a Jedi or FS char which means you'll have to revamp the FS/Jedi profession again if you don't want a game with 0 diversity. Especially the FS part of it unless you want all people to swing a LS which will certainly kill all immersion.


2) Open up the other professions for an endgame by adding new "ultra elite" professions on top of the existing elite professions. Make the xp requireements as harch as Jedis and add risks like xp-loss etc. Revamp the skillpoint system or work something out so an "ultra elite" profession just like Jedis can manage on their own by adding cures/heals etc to them. Add rewards for accomplishments in PvP.


As it looks now, your plan is to do the first since you'll be revamping the path to FS now and making the main FS. But do you really think the current FS boxes are a sufficient reward for it? Think again!!! The only reason to open up FS with your current FS/Jedi boxes is to play a Jedi which means one has to swing a LS.


Also, with the Combat Balance, it will be harder to level a profession so the effort will be more than today which will in a way lenghten the endgame. However the reward will not change. Most people will not be happy with more effort without reward since we've allready played in this current system. That is a nerf and not a revamp or balance. It will work with new players, but I don't believe all existing players will be happy with it.


Well those are my thoughts. I don't know if I'm jeaolous of the Jedi profession, I don't think so.I think I'm more dissapointed in the development of things. Personally I'm a "hardcore player" that have never wanted a Jedi. I've mastered 25+ profs on different chars and my playingtime/accomplishments would have allowed me to open the FSS a long time ago if I had wanted to.

Message Edited by Akinoor on 07-07-2004 12:11 PM



--
Ingame: Akinor, Erynh: Shop is in Sun City (Tatooine), at 6323 3707
"The older one grows, the more one likes indecency."
Flynn_Nomad
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:11 am
#164






mythronde wrote:

Black Sun are confirmed on every server to not be dropping BH armor on Yavin IV anymore. Normally you could kill around 20 of them and at least get 2-3 pieces of armor, but since Publish 9 has been released I have killed more than 100 and have gotten nothing but locked containers, credits and some disks.









looting and crafting rates were bith f'ed up with pub 9, whatever, we are helpless





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Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've
seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me
believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's
no mystical energy field that controls my destiny.
SimDroid
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:12 am
#165

Just a reminder for anyone who may have forgotten the story behind this time period in Star Wars:


You complain and rant and rave about Jedi having to go to remote planets to level up or else face being discovered and attacked. As I recall there are 4 known jedi (really 3, but I'lll let Yoda slide) during this time period. Both Darth Vader and the Emperor have litteraly millions of stormtroopers at their beckon call, so they can do as they please with no consequences. However they still seclude themselves because to leave the cover of the troops would be certain death. Then the Light Jedi: Where are they again? Obi-Wan is in a remote part of a lightly inhabited outter rim planet. Hiding. He knows what would happen if he were to reveal himself to the public. Where's Yoda? On a completely un-inhabitted planet even further away from civilization than Tattoine. Hiding.


Jedi are not to be seen in public, or risk being attacked. It is not guarranteed that they will be attacked if they chose to do so (Obi-wan was still around for a while after flashing his saber around), but anyone who does want to attack them will. It's only Star Wars cannon...



----Appa Kyska --------------------------------
Twi'lek medic, Rebel sympathizer, Roleplayer
Stars' End, Lok - Tempest Server

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ThalenCynelles
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:19 am
#166

PSGs and Lightsaber resistance


TH, I'm sorry but you're wrong here. We were promised this in the notes for Volume III of the Jedi Archives:

__________


What is the new lightsaber damage type?

A new damage type has been created called, "lightsaber damage". All armor is vulnerable to lightsabers, with the exception of Personal Shield Generators. However more to the issue, there really wasn't a new name that fit besides "lightsaber" at the moment. Some of the suggestions by players were "Glowing Beam of light", "lightsaber-energy", "Plasma", "Light" and "Extreme Heat". When considering all of these things, we stuck with a very basic title that everyone could relate to. "Lightsaber" damage is a literal description and describes it as well as we can without creating any form of confusion with existing energy weapons.


___________


::ahem:: Can I assume a hotfix will be made to add lightsaber resistance to PSGs, as it should be?


(Sorry if I'm cross-posting this a bit, but this is an important issue that affects every non-Jedi character)




____Thalen_________________________________________
ANGEL KILLER INDUSTRIES
Caution, Live Crafters!
LiakyK
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:21 am
#167

So will wookiees get any sort of protection from light sabers other then becoming Jedi ourselves?



Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather...
to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming: "WOW - What a ride!"
Jinxx0r
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:27 am
#168

"24) Cannot harvest more than 100 units of a resource from a creature. When this 100 resources is retrieved you can no longer harvest anymore of that resource type (unless you delete the current 100 units). You get a message that the container is full. I get the system message: "You harvested 186 unit(s) of Endorian Leathery Hide. The creature was fat and healthy" but there is not 186 units retrieved.

We still can’t recreate this, though QA is still working on reproducing this problem."


I found a way around this. I was wearing a tech backback with my jedi (and not using the robe). While I had the backpack equipped, I would get this harvesting problem. When I took the backpack off, the problem went away. Hope that helps. Should have followed up on that. I believe if you equip a backpack on a jedi and try to harvest it won't work for you (or it should help you reproduce it). Don't know if the type of backpack makes a difference though.



"I mastered 23 professions and all I got was this lousy force slot..."

Dark Jedi in training...
ThorsAnvil
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:33 am
#169

I just wanted to ring in with one more comment about patch 9.

Allot of people are in hate Jedi mode, in some ways its understandable, we got a whole patch to ourselves, most other prof's got little or no content in this patch.


I don’t RP, I play to PVE, its that simple. I don’t care what my toon looks like, he is nothing more then a killing machine. So I wear my robe.


Sony has decided for me this is my wardrobe, I cant fight with armor, and wearing the robe gives me modifiers, I would be stupid to wear anything else.



So, All along Sony has been preaching the word of how Jedi are reclusive, rare and generally hard to find. How do I know this? Well it gets rammed down my throat in every thread I read.


And like 80%+ of the community we wear what we hunt with, and rarely take it off.
Now patch 9 comes along, and everyone is wearing there robes, why? Because we cant wear anything else.


To all the people screaming for Sabre TEF, just wait a month or 2 till the FRS kicks into high gear. There will be Overt jedi’s to hunt. You can count on it.


Or do you just want the TEF to kill jedi’s who can’t defend themselves?



To Sony, you want jedi to be rare?, you want jedi to be reclusive? Then why the hell did you make the JEDI robe the only thing a jedi can wear?

Might as well made it flash neon green too




Understand JEDI EXP (exp based on normalized kills)

Master Elite Prof 3,891,000 exp / 4200 exp = 926 Rancors for Master Elite anything
Master LightSaber 15,280,000 exp / 1000 exp = 15280 Rancors for Master LS
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