Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Publish 9 Feedback: Secrets of the Force
SBK7
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:40 am
#157
Well I think thats it /cancel accounts
The no death buffer got me I hit wrong weapon in hotkey and with the delay got killed for yep -200k xp now I'm in the hole and now i dont even want to keep playing I mean where is the fun in gringing out of the Hole huh,Thunderheart really maybe you should try it out yourself for a week huh, yea come to my server and give it a try.Let me tell you it sucks.
And i cant be alone in this ?
lehime
Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:23 pm
#158
BOOOO!!!
this has to be the worst patch yet. vader had better be popping out of the woodwork and killing some of these jedi that are not adhering to the jedi code. they should be hiding in the shadows, not rampantly exposing themselves.
now the devs are going to delay the combat rebalance that would give a group of 20 bh's a fighting chance at killing a knight.
fix the game sony, or you will be losing a bunch of subscribers.
AntiNerfSuperstar
Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:53 pm
#159
New to the boards, veteran to the game (two days after release).
BH missions vs. PC Jedi Padawan and xp loss associated with Jedi death and cloning is not a form of population control. As it stands currently, it's a spit in the face to veteran players who had the dedication and tenacity to unlock their FSCS prior to Pub 9, but didn't make 4444 Guardian. The death penalty is too great, and the frequency of appearing on the BH terminals,even if one hunts far from civilization, is too high. Good job making the game enjoyable and rewarding for your veteran players
/spit SOE
Sorry for the rudeness, but I'll take that back when changes are made to this system and hours of hunting aren't unavoidably wasted in a matter of seconds, and with such frequency.
Dedori
Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:46 pm
#160
I'm not sure if this is a result of the latest patch or not but there's definitely something wrong with jedi balance in PvE atm.
I was killing rancor on Dathomir and a jedi ran in and slaugteredthe whole spawn of a half-dozenI was working, killing them all at the same timein under ten seconds and with no risk to himself.He then ran off so fast I couldn't even target him to tell him WOW! Very impressive but hardly balanced in any way shape or form.
He returned a few minutes later and did it again so it's no fluke. I surmised he was working several spawns in the same manner.I like a game where a character is heroically powerfull but wowzers, killing dozens of rancors per minute just seems a bit over the top even to me. I suppose this will be addressed in your combat balance patch which should appear sometime in the next few years but that's a long time to leave a game broken, even with SWG's track record of doing things at a snail's pace.
I also think the decision to cut off FS access while your pathetically slow development team plods away at thenext patch was the worst decision you've made since you decided to release the game unfinished and charge your players for continuing to beta test your product for twelve months.
Dedori
Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:13 pm
#161
I must say that this thread is a hoot to read through. Watching a bunch of players who completely overpower the entire game in every way complain about the oneinconsequential balancing aspect of the class the developers put as a nod to the need for SOME sort of balancing drawback to such an unbalanced class. Too bad SWG didn't have the huevos to stick with meaniingful limitations once there were sufficiently many jedi players to dent their revenue stream if they didn't bend over for them. I think the jedi can count on even the minimal drawbacks they experience now (-200K works out to four minutes to earn back the penalty at 3M xp per hour) being relaxed if they continue to buck them.
Dedori
Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:19 pm
#162
Oops. My bad. That's 3M per day not per hour at 300K per hour.
I guess that works out to about a WHOLE 40 minutes to earn back the death penalty. Well I can see how THAT'S definitely worth quitting over then.
hahaha
ParnellOfBria
Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:28 pm
#163
Ok deo, for one... killing tons of rancors fast is easy for several classes... including rifleman and swordsman... without the temploiting at all. A good set of armor, good buffs, and good food... anyone can kill rancors fast. (well except maybe TKA or anything that uses kinetic). Anyhow, about your -200k from a BH kill... and 300k per hour... and 3mil per day, god who plays for 10 hours a day??!? well thats ridiculous....lower level jedi can barely muster 50k per hour... the jedi you are referring to (making 300k per hour) are the high level, nearly knight, jedi, that have nothing to fear from BH's anyhow.
Unfortunately for these lower level jedi they're plagued by griefers and exploiters. People who kill them over and over pushing them far below negative 1million exp. Which for a lower level jedi this could be months of work to regain (even for some who consider themselves powergamers). I've heard of some people going negative 500k in a single day. Low level jedi have nothing they can even do to a temploiting BH. The only option is to just die, and the chances of getting a revive from anyone is slim to none since the BH would just kill you and the doc again anyhow. Then on top of that, each time a bounty hunter fights you, and you use your powers against them... it raises your visibility even more. It's a vicious cycle, that once you get on the boards you won't ever get off them. Jedi definitely do a LOT more damage than any other profession right now... in pve... but in pvp, they still can't hit the average temploiter, and unless they have force run 2 or 3 they can't even get away from BH's (which have always been the JOKE of pvp'rs abroad).
Theres some things i wanted to post here also:
jedi robes still no where near equal to armor, how are they a replacement for armor!? I MISSWEARING ARMOR. Now every jedi looks the same. 
and even worse we're required to wear robes to keep competive amount of force regeneration.
and even worse we're required to wear robes to keep competive amount of force regeneration.jedi visibility goes up from fighting in front of groupmates (why would your friends report you to the authorities)!
Jedi visibility is hugely bugged right now, once you're on the terminals (which takes maybe killing 1 single thing in front of 1 single other player, even a group-mate), you stay on the terminals indefinitely!
BOUNTY HUNTERS CAN STILL DROP YOUR MISSION AND KEEP PERMANENT TEF ON YOU AND KILL YOU ANYTIME THEY WANT UNTIL YOU INCAP THEM.
the different lightsaber generations vary every-so-slightly in stats (except for the number of crystals they can hold, and the force cost on them)... the ironic thing about the whole deal is that, first generation sabers are actually BETTER to use (in pve)than any of the other sabers UNLESS you have very very good pearls with LOW LOW force cost (or you have channel force and force meditation)
Force regeneration is way too slow, unless you're an enhancer. (maybe won't matter in combat revamp?)
Force armor 1 is NOT working. (drains force while active, but doesn't actually block any damage.Not sure about force armor 2)
Lightsabers can't block melee attacks... laf please. what is the deal with this.
Lightsabers can't shoot ranged attacks back at the attacker. bleeegh 
Temploiter BH's (TKM / BH with center macro) cannot be hit by anything but a master lightsaber user. Makes PVP totally BORKED int he BH vs jedi department (this probably should go under the hit ratio patch forum but i think it applies more to jedi who don't haev a choice about how accurate they are cuz theres no skill attachments for sabers).
NO jedi can hold his own in pvp without master lightsaber and force run 2. period. SO glad we haev so much diversity in the jedi templates.
Wearing jedi robes in pvp actually almost DOUBLES the damage you take from incoming attacks. Tested this out against a teras kasi artist.
In_Disguise
Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:12 am
#164
Jesterstear wrote:
Zen, take your armor off and PVP.Level your profession some without.... Then post your feedback.
Well, Wookiees went long enough without any protection whatsoever (unless you count PSGs). We moaned long and hard and eventually we got our armour. Even then we are still waiting on the next two types which will bring us onto a more level playing field with other races who have had Comp for a long time now (including you and your pre-publish 9 jedi). We went not only without armour but without lightsabers (which your opponents in Comp now cant resist ANYWAY) or healing powers, saber-throws, cures, etc. Be thankful you got where you are now before the Resist-free Robes entered the game and gave you the same resists against other professions that other professions have against yours.
What, they balanced other profs against my Jedi? Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.
If precedant is anything to go by, just keep whining on all you Jedi and eventually robes will get resists, just dont expect it for a few months.
Who'd be a Wookiee Jedi huh? 
Mekmakabis
Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:46 am
#165
New to boards, too...got the game as soon as it hit the shelves. Question is - was that a good idea?
SOE, you have lost a player. Not me, but my 12-year-old son. And contrary to an earlier characterization of 12-year-olds, my son is polite, respectful, intelligent, and completely humiliates me computer-wise. But I digress. Here is how the loss occurred...I will call my son 'David' (not his real name, but quite apt, if you consider SOE's 'Goliath'). Some paraphrasing in the interest of brevity is also included.
David: So, Secrets of the Force is going to give us part-time people a chance to play a Jedi?
Me: Uh, no...we have to wait for Publish 10 for that.
David: What's that one called?
Me: 'Jump To Lightspeed'.
David: Isn't that the one with the starships - where everyone over a certain amount of time gets a ship like Lando's?
Me: That's the one.
David: But I can't get a Jedi in the Force publish...I have to wait until the starship publish to get something relating to the Force...in the starship publish, *not* the Force publish. Is that it?
Me: Pretty much, yes.
David: Is there a point to this?
Me: Well, none I've been able to discern.
David: So - Mom's been doing that brainless holo-grind - the one that even the devs said was a rancid idea - for nothing.
Me: No, she'll still get credit for it.
David: But not until the starship publish.
Me: Right.
David: The one that has nothing to do with the Force.
Me (becoming weary): Right.
David: I see. But you both get free starships?
Me: Yes
David: Are they going to disappear like mounts and vehicles did on TestCenter?
Me: I don't know.
David: But you can play a Jedi then, even if your ships DO disappear.
Me: Is there a point to this?
David: Well, yes. I've been playing for five months...I've mastered a bunch of professions, made lots of credits, explored every planet...Jedi are all that's left. Now I have to wait until the starship publish to play a Force-related character that should have been made available to play in the Force publish, and I have to start from Square 1 because I have school and chores and homeworkand a bunch of stuff I have to do before you let me onto my computer in order to do it, only to be told by people who I don't know that I can't play a Jedi because it isn't available until the starship publish instead of the Force publish where you'd assume the launch of Force-using characters would be, even for us who can't play 24/7.
Me: One would assume so, yes.
David: Uh-huh. (Quietly inspects the SWG JewelCase and makes sure both disks are there, then slides it, along with all the accompanying literature, into the gamebox, which is very gently placed next to my coffee cup).
Me: What gives?
David (giving my shoulder an almost-patronizing pat): Ask the devs that. Oh, let me know when my copy of *World of Warcraft* comes in, okay Dad?
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Ummmm...SOE? What gives?
TranSabal
Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:31 pm
#166
Mekmakabis wrote:
Me: Uh, no...we have to wait for Publish 10 for that.
David: What's that one called?
Me: 'Jump To Lightspeed'.
Jump to Lightspeed is the expansion. There hasn't been an official release date (that I've seen) but it's due out probably around late October.
Patch 10 (also no set schedule, but they try to do them every 6 weeks) is called The Jedi Trials. It's the Jedi Revamp Part II. The main focus of that release will be the new unlocking method. If I understand it correctly, Patch 10 will be the last major patch before the expansion. They will, however, be doing many "mini-patches" to release things like Wookiee Armor and minor combat revamps.
Message Edited by TranSabal on 07-23-2004 03:38 PM
Mekmakabis
Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:28 am
#167
Ah, I stand corrected. My apologies. Maybe...*maybe* I can tell my son this before he wipes SWG from his computer....
AntiNerfSuperstar
Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:28 pm
#168
I find it interesting that people complain about the rarity of Jedi, espcially post-Pub 9 (even though there were no more post-Pub, than pre-Pub). Granted it isa bitof a storyissue, but the complaints and arguements for heavily limiting the Jedi population have their flaws.
First of all, shouldn't everyone have a chance to become a Jedi? I'm sure the devs ran into this issue when confronting the task of how to work Jedi into the game. Sure, the path to Jedihood should be difficult (difficult in any RPG, MMOs included, being defined more by time spent and a little luck, rather than skill), but it would have been rediculous for the devs to actually say to anyone, "No, you can't, no matter what you do, become a Jedi." Some may give up and not make it (I know a few), and others may just decide not to, but everyone should at least have the opportunity to become a Jedi if they decide to put the effort and dedication forth.
Second, if the Jedi population is actually physically limited in anyway, especially for story reasons, then why should the non-Jedi profession masters not be limited as well? Sure, there were "Master" caliber Bounty Hunters or Teras Kasi Artists during the time frame of SWG, but surely not as many as you see running around now. Why is it that this doesn't detract from the ambiance of the game when one inten players is a Fett quality Bounty Hunter? Boba is now just another face in the crowd much like Obi-wan, but I don't see any complaints about it on the boards.
Not to stand on the mountain, waving my pro-Jedi flag, but every deserves a chance to master a profession they like or become a Jedi if they're willing to put forth the effort, and it wouldn't be right to tell someone that they can't be a Jedi because it would ruin the gaming ambiance for someone else. At the same time, one could argue that it's just as bad to tell someone not to complain about titled, robe wearing Padawan dueling in front of the starport because those people deserve to be Jedi and play the way they'd like, however, this is when much of the game's ambiance and "content" falls on us players. If Jedi, in general, stayed out of populated areas and you only saw one rarely in the wilds of an unpopulated planet, then things would be MUCH better, but that's up to the Jedi. It's unfair to complain to the devs about the population and visibility of Jedi when most of the problem really falls on the players. So much of the atmosphere of the game depends largely on us, the players, rather than the devs.
jball2k
Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:05 pm
#169
Nathanielstarr wrote:
The fact that Luke is the only jedi serving the lightside IS Star Wars. It's the whole freaking story for the original 3 films. The bad guys wiped out the Jedi and this kid named Luke is the only one that can bring them back.
So not only do we have tons of jedi in the game that you see everywhere now but they are muchmore powerful than Luke was even at the end of Return of the Jedi.
I do feel that it's right to not let someone be something that they want to be because it will ruin the ambiance of the game. It's an MMORPG RPG being the key part. Play the role that the setting provides. Ambiance is the most important thing....ambiance is the best part of the game and that is quickly fading. When you first started and you walked into the cantina on Mos Eisley and saw Stormtroopers that was the best part....
It comes down to this. The Dev's feel that letting people be Jedi and giving them the ability to work towards jedi will make them stay and pay in the short term. Long term it's going to ruin the game.
It's just easier for them to make a profession that takes a long time to do then having to be creative and think up so many more interesting quests and storylines.
I wonder why they didn't just set this game in the prequels. Yeah maybe those movies are less popular but by destroying the story of the original films what does it matter? Imagine if they had started it in Episode 1 time and worked their way through to Episode 6 and beyond....the content ideas would've been there and the galaxy would be ever shifting....but that goes beyond the search for a quick buck I guess.
Message Edited by Nathanielstarr on 07-25-2004 07:44 PM
well, there wouldn't be much of a GCW.