Development Cycle Archive

Thread: In-Concept 3: Entertainer, Dancer and Musician Missions & Quests

PoetDancer
Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:08 pm
#144

Now I know a lot of players have been exploring the possibility of a fame statistic, but tell me, is this really fame? I was a rather prominent dancer on my last server, and I needed no fame statistic to tell me that I was. Will the inclusion of fame as a game mechanic truly reward thoseplayers who are in character, attentive to their patrons, andtruly entertaining to be around? If it doesn't, then you just gave another game mechanics advantage to an unattended playerthat puts no effort in being entertaining to the patrons.


I am pretty sure thatfame cannot ever be included as a game mechanic. I may be wrong, but I simply cannot conceive of a way you can approximate popularity in a coded statistic. Entertainers do become popular and famous already for doing the real work of the entertainer: attentive, witty, and in-character play. If fame is merely a measure of mission completion, then its theoretical that the most famous entertainer on a particular server would be unknown by anyone else on that server. If fame is merely a measure of tallied votes by other players, then you'll see a PA's unattended buffbot be more famous than those who work hard in the game to meet and service players in an attentive way. If there is a significant game mechanics advantage in having high fame, it only magnifies the problems by making players who put no effort into playing having superiority over those entertainers that take great pride in being the most entertaining players they can.



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Xyrdre
Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:38 pm
#145

There are so many great ideas in this thread already... I'll just add a few to the mix under my usual brainstorming 'throw ideas out there... if one out of ten turn out to be golden, that's one more good idea' philosophy.

I really like the idea of some form of Fame. The 'Fame like faction points' concept sounds as if it could be a reasonable starting point, where Fame could be gained through extensive, and progressively prestigous, performance mission accomplishments, whether player or NPC driven, or a combination of the two. I think that some kind of system where invitations to more prestigious gigs can be earned through diligent performance could be content to strive for even beyond Mastery. Finally earning those invitations to dance for Jabba, or at the palace at Theed, or for the Emperor or other SW luminaries after working very hard at my craft would make for some nice content, I think.

The payoff for such Entertainer quests? In the early stages, the kinds of things that have been discussed for standard missions; XP and reasonable pay. For later rewards, I'd personally enjoy the kinds of things that reflect a dedication to performing excellence rather than strict game mechanics. These rewards would have to be visible, tangible 'medals', in a sense, of going to the extra effort to entertain... of value to "true" entertainers, but not worth the effort for those not dedicated to quality entertainment to obtain.

Possible examples:

1) Additional 'prestige' titles based on fame... Diva and Rock Star were suggested. These would denote only an extra effort put forth by those who love to perform, and be of value to those who care about such things.

2) Special badges for successful completion of prestigious gigs, possibly along with some form of congratulatory letter of admiration that could be displayed in the home or guildhall for success in these missions. (Insert character name), The Great and Mighty Jabba wishes to extend his complements on a most invigorating performance... you are truly a credit to your profession..., etc. I know that if I was invited to dance before Jabba (or the Emperor or whatnot) and received a letter of congratulation, it'd be framed and up on the wall for all to see.

3) Unique outfits, instruments, furniture, or other home/cantina/PA hall decor as tokens of appreciation from high-profile admirers.


Poet Dancer is right as well, though, in that there is certainly a measure of fame already in place that simply comes from word of mouth via other players. Entertainers who really entertain are remembered, and talked about. But perhaps this could be worked into the system in some way, if a way could be found that would minimize the possibilites of being exploited for quick Fame gains. Could there be a non-exploitable way of players contributing to that Fame score? I'll just leave that question open.

If the ideas continue to flow, we have to option to keep the good ones and throw out the ones that won't help.





Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...
Amontillado
Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:31 pm
#146






PoetDancer wrote:

Now I know a lot of players have been exploring the possibility of a fame statistic, but tell me, is this really fame? I was a rather prominent dancer on my last server, and I needed no fame statistic to tell me that I was. Will the inclusion of fame as a game mechanic truly reward thoseplayers who are in character, attentive to their patrons, andtruly entertaining to be around? If it doesn't, then you just gave another game mechanics advantage to an unattended playerthat puts no effort in being entertaining to the patrons.


I am pretty sure thatfame cannot ever be included as a game mechanic. I may be wrong, but I simply cannot conceive of a way you can approximate popularity in a coded statistic. Entertainers do become popular and famous already for doing the real work of the entertainer: attentive, witty, and in-character play. If fame is merely a measure of mission completion, then its theoretical that the most famous entertainer on a particular server would be unknown by anyone else on that server. If fame is merely a measure of tallied votes by other players, then you'll see a PA's unattended buffbot be more famous than those who work hard in the game to meet and service players in an attentive way. If there is a significant game mechanics advantage in having high fame, it only magnifies the problems by making players who put no effort into playing having superiority over those entertainers that take great pride in being the most entertaining players they can.







Yes, Fame can be included as a game mechanic. Is it REAL fame..no it isn't. But then experience isn't real either, nor are injuries, wounds, etc. etc. Titles certainly aren't real (You can attain Master Dancer and know next to nothing about the profession). I'm not suggesting that any mechanic should, will, or can replace the real social ties or name recognition that can occur in an MMOG though attentive, kind, and intelligent interaction with other players.


What a fame statistic can offer is a brass ring for entertainers to reach for, a reward that can be of value to them, and an indicator for folks to roleplay off of. Moreover, it will offer a mechanic that allows NPCs to react appropriately to a "famous" character. As it stands, your popular entertainer character is treated exactly the same by all NPCs as any other character would be. For immersion concerns it would be nice for the world to react differently to your character as faction standings cause the world to react differently to various combatant types.


Steps can and should be taken to ensure (as much as is possible) that fame is accrued from actual playing and not afk macroing. In fact it should be tough. Perhaps require attentive reaction to NPC demands for certain tunes or dances. Such a system would not stop folks from advancing in their entertainer professions, xp and skills being attained through the normal means.


I think Fame as a game mechanic can be implemented and can add alot of flavour to the entertainment profession. Can a Fame mechanic represent the character to other player popularity that good roleplay can? No. It can't and it won't. Can it be used to reward people that play entertainers as many of us believe they should be played? I think yes.


Amontillado
Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:33 pm
#147






PoetDancer wrote:

Now I know a lot of players have been exploring the possibility of a fame statistic, but tell me, is this really fame? I was a rather prominent dancer on my last server, and I needed no fame statistic to tell me that I was. Will the inclusion of fame as a game mechanic truly reward thoseplayers who are in character, attentive to their patrons, andtruly entertaining to be around? If it doesn't, then you just gave another game mechanics advantage to an unattended playerthat puts no effort in being entertaining to the patrons.


I am pretty sure thatfame cannot ever be included as a game mechanic. I may be wrong, but I simply cannot conceive of a way you can approximate popularity in a coded statistic. Entertainers do become popular and famous already for doing the real work of the entertainer: attentive, witty, and in-character play. If fame is merely a measure of mission completion, then its theoretical that the most famous entertainer on a particular server would be unknown by anyone else on that server. If fame is merely a measure of tallied votes by other players, then you'll see a PA's unattended buffbot be more famous than those who work hard in the game to meet and service players in an attentive way. If there is a significant game mechanics advantage in having high fame, it only magnifies the problems by making players who put no effort into playing having superiority over those entertainers that take great pride in being the most entertaining players they can.








Yes, Fame can be included as a game mechanic. Is it REAL fame..no it isn't. But then experience isn't real either, nor are injuries, wounds, etc. etc. Titles certainly aren't real (You can attain Master Dancer and know next to nothing about the profession). I'm not suggesting that any mechanic should, will, or can replace the real social ties or name recognition that can occur in an MMOG though attentive, kind, and intelligent interaction with other players.


What a fame statistic can offer is a brass ring for entertainers to reach for, a reward that can be of value to them, and an indicator for folks to roleplay off of. Moreover, it will offer a mechanic that allows NPCs to react appropriately to a "famous" character. As it stands, your popular entertainer character is treated exactly the same by all NPCs as any other character would be. For immersion concerns it would be nice for the world to react differently to your character as faction standings cause the world to react differently to various combatant types.


Steps can and should be taken to ensure (as much as is possible) that fame is accrued from actual playing and not afk macroing. In fact it should be tough. Perhaps require attentive reaction to NPC demands for certain tunes or dances. Such a system would not stop folks from advancing in their entertainer professions, xp and skills being attained through the normal means.


I think Fame as a game mechanic can be implemented and can add alot of flavour to the entertainment profession. Can a Fame mechanic represent the character to other player popularity that good roleplay can? No. It can't and it won't. Can it be used to reward people that play entertainers as many of us believe they should be played? I think yes.


AurorahandFenyx
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:23 pm
#148


Missions are a huge concern. I havent done them lately, why? there's no point. Payouts are terrible. It costs more to travel than the actual mission payouts. Idea! raise payouts! Another idea. If you are performing for a group as the mission most of the time states, why not give healing xp at theend of the mission. Based on your performance and flourishes you could gain a 500 healing xp bonus in addition to the bonus already given.


An item that doesnt need to be crafted...like clothes. I would love to run a mission for jabba or perform for the mayor of bestine and get a key to the city or a slave outfit from jabba thats ready to be worn... not something i have to hunt for like 3 identical leather pieces etc...


I think player cantinas/ theatresshould have a basement, second storyor "backrooms/dressing rooms" so that you may be able "live and change" in your establishment snce we cant have nig houses and cantinas/theatres.


-Aurorah Danu, Sunrunner




Fenyx Elementis - Sunrunner
Master Tailor
Master Architect

"The only real crime is bad design!"
Plagvreugd
Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:06 am
#149

On Fame. It is certainly possible to make a statistic based on Fame. You could base it on the number of people that tip you, the number of people that vote for you, the number of times you've played, the number of missions you've done et cetera.


However, it will probably be grinded just like the Master titles are grinded now by the holo-crazy bunch. I think making the Fame system so that it tells you who is a popular performer with some accuracy and making it so you can't grind it will be a real challenge. Otherwise don't bother.


Remember, anything that can be abused, will be abused.


Thewt Tabro

Master Musician
Idany
Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:58 pm
#150

I am missing Image design quests. Image design is part ofentertainer. Yet there are no ideas for quests mentoined.


Player missions also for image designers would be nice...Letting someone or a playercity add missions if they want an


image designer. I placed some other quest ideas under the correspondent thread of Image designer.



Furthermore I think it would be nice when the new Image design UI from patch 8 would be used for dancers and musicians too.


A standard amount of fee you can agree to once someone starts to listen/watch you. (Very helpful cos afk players would never get


tip and maybe even no healing XP?)







Masen
Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:22 am
#151

I like the idea for the buffing UI in dancer and such too, (as a side note, let a doctor see stat enhancements in the /diagnose window?) and something to keep afkers from buffing and/or gaining healing xp. Also, player missions for Entertainers. Allow players to post Entertainer missions on the entertainer terminals, like selling items at the bazaar (some rework needed, but alot can use the bazaar code) allowing people to post missions such as 'Dancers wanted at wedding' and such? Cash would be paid to the terminal in advance, and given to the entertainer when the mission was completed? Image Designer missions, Dancer, and Musician would all work with a system like this, and, for example, a hunting party on Lok could put in missions for entertainers at the local cantina while they run missions for a few hours, with whatever reward they think will get entertainers to play? ie 10K per half hour or so. Also, have some way of detecting afk, perhaps like the click boxes in a random screen position every few minutes, so that afkers can't just macro and take the money from people who actually want to make a living as entertainers?



No I don't have a freakin sig. Just make something up and pretend it's here man. woman. umm...Whatever.
Klipshack
Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:05 am
#152

For musicians and dancers:


1. I would like to see a way for NPC's to rate the performance of the player(s). The NPC's could view a player and assign a rating after two minutes of performance on a 1 to 10 scale. Items that would affect would be quality of clothing, variety in flourishes, number of mistakes by performer, timing of hitting the flourish keys and use of light effects. I believe that the NPC should be able to tell if the player is using a macro or not, and use of a macro should lower the rating.


Additionally, this could be stepped up for groups performing together. How well are they in unison? Is it all band flourish, or do they coordinate (something we used to do back in EQ days =)


2. Gig missions would be much more interesting if we were sent to different places then some random hotel or cantina. There is a type of mission on Naboo where you can get a mansion to spawn as the 'lair' for a humaniod group. having places spawn for entertainers doesn't seem too far fetched either.


Also, adding code for doing gig missions as a group with other performers to increase reward would be nice.


3. A huge pleaser for me and likely most entertainers is better venues for performing. The stages in Hotels and Theaters are great, but there is nothing attracing players to them. Abilities to control lighting and have speaker sounds (projection of sounds instead of players clicking on listen) would be great fun to work with.


4. Advertising droids and wardrobe droids.


Xanamiar
Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:13 am
#153


It was a long hot day on Tatooine, and not much of a time to go out and do any adventuring. I'm a Master Musician who loves to play, and therefore spend most of my time in a Cantina.. Either my own, on Naboo in Rauha.. Or in a Cantina in one of the large cities. But sometimes it get's quite boring. I left Tatooine and went back to Theed, on my way out of the starport I ran into a noble woman who had something to say to me. I was a bit surprised she had heard of me, and she wanted to help me out. I didn't know exactly what she meant, til she said something about needing to learn a new song. I was quite excited, it had been some time since I learned Virtuoso, which is supposedly one of the hardest songs to learn in the Galaxy.


She told me of a man who was taken to a prison on Dathomir, who had more information on this new song. I wasn't sure if I really wanted to run to Dathomir or not, but figured a new song would be worth the chances. Once I reached Dathomir I talked with the man, who informed me of a Master Musician from long ago, who could teach me a song that no one had heard for many years, my heart leapt in joy to learn of such a song in the galaxy. I found it to be quite exciting. He told me that he resides on Endor, a planet that isn't visited by many, and is out in the middle of nowhere, and it may be quite hard to find someone willing to take me out there. "I'll find a way" I replied as I rushed out of the prison and made my way back to the small starport to take a ship back to Corellia, where I would meet up with a couple friends who would accompany me through the wilds of Endor, if needed.


Once on Endor I was given the coordinates of where this "Master Musician" was. My small group traveled through the thick trees of Endor and found him standing in the middle of nowhere.


"Hello Shaina." He said with almost a mystical sound to his voice. "I was told to expect you." I hestitated talking to him, but did. "I was told that you could teach me a new song that is rare in this galaxy." "I can, but first you must do these things for me." After a long list of running around for the man, he deemed me worthy of the song, and started to play it for me, I learned it by listening to him, and then playing it with him. What a joyous song.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________


Okay, that's how I want to see new songs introduced... Master Musician instanced missions for a song, which costs music xp to gain the song. And would love to see many new songs added.. as well as dances...



Time is Everlasting, but our days are numbered.
jrcobar
Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:38 pm
#154

How about a theme park just for the entertainers? There could be 3 different Agents/Managers for ID's, Musicians and Dancers who would hand out their respective quests. I really liked the Reb themepark over the Imp themepark in that to finish it, you had to travel to different planets (Corellia, Lok and Dantooine) to complete the themepark. The entertainer theme parks should be like that, after finishing missions for 3 or so NPC managers, the player gets a referral to go to a manager on another planet.


For the actual quests:


For the Musician and Dancer types, the client that the manager sends them to could have an 'applause-o-meter' radial that pops up to show the dancer if the audience is getting bored. You could pick2 flourishes at random out of the 8 each time before the player performs another flourish--if the player chooses the correct flourish, the applause-o-meter goes up, if theychoose the wrong one, it goesdown.To toughen up the mission, you could have them timed, and the harder the mission, the less time they have to get the applause-o-meter to hit its peak.


For ID's, the manager could send them to an NPCclient who wants a new look. For example, the client could say something like "I want a new hairstyle... something short. And change myhair color." (something like that), then the ID chooses a short hairstyle for the NPC client. If they choose theright one, the NPC says "That's the hair i wanted, but not the hair color i wanted..." They'd have to keep making changes till they get whatever the look the NPC wanted.


Rewards:

Like the other theme parks, players should get money for all the individual quests, but an item whenever they finish a set of quests for a specific NPC. Musicians could get some sort of instruments that can't be crafted, dancers could get some type of clothing that can't be crafted by tailors, i'm not sure what ID's could get as a job-specific reward...


anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Syz
Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:10 pm
#155

I think an interesting thing would be to make use of the theaters. A high level, and high paying, quest would be to get say 20 people to watch or listen to your performance for at least 10 min, and by doing so they get a higher than normal buff. The audience should only be able to enter before the performance starts, and should have to sit in the seats for the buff to work. The performances should always occur at certain intervals and entertainers have to "audition" to perform at the theater. To win the audition other players should vote for who they want to see on stage, the person with the highest votes gets the highest payment. Also different venues should be geared towards different types of entertainment, the theater on Vreni Island would be a nice place for a classical concert, while the best way to get attention (more money) in Coronet would be to do an Exotic dance.
Artistan
Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:09 am
#156

/throw random idea


Maybe Master Musicans/Dancers/ID's could set up casinos in player cities, money won would come out of the buildings new treasury fund, while money lost would go into it. Lugjack, jubilee wheels and maybe some other game....Sabacc? A new tax would be created on these winnings, so player cities could siphon off a portion of the earnings to be used for the betterment of the city.



- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too
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