Development Cycle Archive
Thread: In Concept 1-1: Combat Roles; Bounty Hunter
Here is at least one addtion the the Bounty Hunter really needs I think... make that Bounty Hunter back pack into a Jet Pack... Maybe only a Master Bounty Hunter knows how to use this too... it'd work very much like a Vehicle does now... only... it's always there for use... so... a way of working the Jet Pack Decay would have to be figure out... maybe an on off switch something like... You wear it like a Back Pack... but to use it for a Jet Pack... you call it as you would a normal Vehicle. That might be a tricky one to do since the Jet Pack remains in game while not in use. But an Idea to start working with at least.
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
What defines theBounty Hunterrole in combat?
The Bopunty Hunter does one thing. He is a solo predator meant to hunt down a specific target and eliminate it quickly and eficiently. Not waiting at the shuttle port so they can send a droid to do his work fro him.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Stealth, speed, an arsenal of weapons suited to stealh, and quck death dealing weapons.
What offensive abilities?
Poisons, cripling attacks (dizzies, knockdowns, setfire, blinding). A one hit death dealing attack that takes about 30 seconds to recover from and has unbeatable accuracy.
What defensive abilities?
Little to none except for escape. When a bounty hunter is fighing an opponent who is expecting him, he usually loses (IG-88 (once by dash rendar and once by Boba Fett), Greedo, and the beloved Jango Fett).
What unique abilities?
Poisons, actual investigatin abilities. Mask radar signature. Suprise attacks. Camoflage that works against thing other than animals. Traps meant for people.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
None. The BH should be a solo profession
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should be able to criple theur special advantages when they supprise them, but in a fair fight they should always be the one running.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
BHs should be more like Ninjas. The sneak in, strike quickly, and dissapear before anone knw what happened. Right now they are a specialzed commando mixed with a pistoleer who enjoys causing pain.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
NOT taking over bases. That is just stupid. Whan a large amount of PvP combat goes on, daths should be recorded. When a player achieves a very high kill to death ratio ie: 100kills per death, a player bounty from the opposite faction should be generated at BH mission terminals, and athat BH who takes the mission should have a TEF until one of the two is eliminated.
rYsyn wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
What defines theBounty Hunterrole in combat?
- This is a long post, but sums up the Bounty Hunter VERY WELL:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=101236
- Knowledgable in multiple weapon types
- Not Overpowering but has the Abililty to CONTROL the target
- Via Specials
- Via Posture Changing Weapons
- Cunning and agile
- Very formitable in ONE on ONE combat
What basic combat elements should they possess?
- Tracking Skills
- Multiple Weapon Certs and Types
What offensive abilities?
- Knockdown shots (multiple types and versons with each weapon type)
- Blinding Shots
- Delay Shots
- Intimidate
- STEALTH, evade radar detection for shot periods of time
What defensive abilities?
- Ranged Combat
- Defense verse KnockDown (due to agility)
- Defense verse Dizzy (due to cunningness)
What unique abilities?
- Player Bounties!
- Read this post:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=134326
- PvP & PvE Gadgets
- Tangle Gun - Shots cord that trips target (delay of 5 - 10 sec)
- Flash Gun - Shots an explosive that blinds anything within 15 meters of it (PvP must retarget, PvE 10 sec delay)
- Poison Dart - Bleed Shot that will Incap a target once you take the down, allows you to take them in alive
- Ability to HACK Travel and Banking and Mission Terminals
- All these allow the Bounty Hunter (with a R2 Unit or Palm Pilot) to track thier prey. No more Spynet guys, Tracking driods, PURE BOUNTY HUNTER! The Bounty Hunter has to find thier target, THEMSELF!
- Travel terminals to get last 5 ticket purchases with timestamps
- Bank to see last 5 purchase on that planet with timestamps
- Mission terminals to what missions, if any, they have taken
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
- Very Little to none, a Bounty Hunter is a One on One combat killer
How could/should they interact with other professions?
- Very Little
- Other Professions should fear them as Bounty Hunters would kill anyone for money
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
- None, Bounty Hunters should be loners
- NO DABBLING SHOULD BE ALLOWED. Selecting Novice Bounty Hunter prevents you from Dabbling in other Professions.
- Other then buy Weapons and Armor, none
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
- None, Bounty Hunters should not be allowed in the GCW
- Other then Killing High Ranking Members of each side via a Bounty
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Thank you for asking, I hope you all really read and try and impliment.
What defines theBounty Hunterrole in combat?
The bounty hunter should be the ultimate solo fighter and be distinctively superior in 1v1or2 combat. He should also be feared and respected when he walks in a room. To this end player bounties must be added to give the profession continuity and make people wonder when a BH walks in thecantina "Is he after me or just here for drink?"
What basic combat elements should they possess?
BHs need the ability to trap humanoid characters (players and NPCs), have a devestating first strike capability, and be able to quickly remove themselves from the battle space. Afterall we are interested in one target, not continuing a fight with there friends.
What offensive abilities?
Humanoid traps, posture changes, and extremely fast and deadly first strike. This first strike capability should exist in the form of specials (at level 4 or master) that has a slow recycle time, but can do 500-1000 HAM damage. BH should not have overall attack speed and more damaging specials than the combat professions for each weapon class, but should be masters of the knockdown shots.
What defensive abilities?
We need to be able to wear the best armor available and be able to get out of trouble as fast as we get in. We don't need defensive capabilities much beyond that master marksman (I do like ranged mitigation though), but we do need the ability to run out of danger faster. BHs are not meant for fighting groups and are focused on one target only....once that is dispatched we should be leaving quickly. Maybe this is added speed to burst run, or maybe make us the only profession that can shoot while on a vehicle (Not while moving though).
What unique abilities?
Traps and Stalking. The thing I most want to do is track down a player bounty and watch him until the best time to strike. To this end I need a stalking capability. This should be a combination of the follow command and something that conceals you from the targets easy view. My suggestion is that when we "/Stalk Target" it starts a follow at 90-100m and removes us from the target's (and his group's) radar screens. He should still be able to see me, if I'm stupid enough to stay standing all the time or walk up too close, however. Humanoid traps would also give the profession a unique feature that makes it feel more real. Here are some suggestions
Investigation 1: The flash bang grenade. Just like a SWAT team uses. Have it burst with light and sound and leave everyone in the area of effect (except the BH who'd know to cover his eyes and ears) stunned and intimidated for a brief period.
Investigation 2: Adhesive Mesh grenades. Works just like the ones we have for scout trapping 4 , but on humanoids.
Investigation 3: Trip Snare. This could be like a mine that the BH sets up prior to his attack or in the known path of the target. It won't go off unless somebody (not necessarily the bounty target) trips it. It would then snare the target very tightly for a significant amount of time. Since this does require some actual thought and tactics from the BH to get the target to set it off, it should be very effective at limiting the targets ability to move and fight back until he can cut himself out.
Investigation 4: Tranquilizer Dart. This should have a long recycle time to balance conflict and take a few seconds to take effect. After a given amount of time this would lead to Dizzy and eventual paralysis. You can take any example from a show on Animal Planet if you need to see it in action.
Master Bounty Hunter: Tranquilizer Dart 2: Just make the effect take faster and apply a DOT.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Very little beyond his basic weapons skills and his ability to bring the LLC to a fight. BH is supposed to be a solo hunter. They should be looking for groups to join in order to help them level up because they can't handle more than 1 or 2 targets at a time. If we get player bounties working, it may actually become hard for a BH to find a group since people will become suspicious of them.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Bounty Hunter should have very little to do with other professions since they are solo players. Most interaction should be with the artisans that make their armor and weapons. You could also make them dependent upon combat medics, smugglers, and chefs for components to their traps if you wanted.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
BH should be dependent on others to hunt pack animals, but should otherwise be a solo player. We have the widest assortment of weapons abilities, but aren't the best at using any specific one (except LLC). Other groups hunting humanoids, such as jedi (player or NPC), should want Bounty Hunters with them for the traps and first strike capability, but the BH should need them for supporting/covering fire if there are multiple targets.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Give me player bounties. Give me factional player bounties. Start putting player targets up on the boards for players that DB so many players from another faction. Make the size of the bounty proportional to how many kills the factional player has dealt out. This may have the effect of making some players less likely to kill another player in the GCW, but if so, then they shouldn't be doing PvP anyhow. It also has the potential to help balance a war that is lopsided right now, by giving Bounty Hunters a reason to go after the Rebels that are outnumbering the Empire and laying waste to Imperial bases and cities everywhere.
After thought: If you do start giving us factional player bounties, at least consider the idea of being able to use factional pets. I'm not saying that is the right answer, since I haven't thougt it through, but it should be considered.
My unsolicted opionion on hunting Jedi.
Make the the tracking droids work on all player targets. Make them so seeker droids can only find targets that are outside of buildings (optical tracking measures) and Arakyds can find targets anywhere (Thermal / Electronic sensors). Now since the jedi are intuned with the universe (and gonna lose something when they get killed) they should get the ability to sense danger. Basically this should be like an alarm in there head that something is stalking them, be it the droid or the BH. It shouldn't tell them where exactly the droid is, but a visual scan should allow them to see it (unless they are inside a building and an Arakyd is outside). The targets, be it a jedi or other player, should have the ability to target and destroy the droid. If they do this then the BH will just get that ever annoying "target signal lost" message. This option would give bounty hunters the ability to track players without asking stupid questions that only a stupid jedi would answer truthfully, and would give the targets an opportunity to be warned and start running. I personnally like the idea of chasing a runner. I want them to be scared of me. That's why I and many others became Bounty Hunters in the first place.
Bulldog-Six
Bounty Hunter 3/4/4/4 (14 more bounties till Master :fett
Chilastra
jol69 wrote:
How could/should they interact with other professions?To all of those who think that the BH should own all other combat professions 1on 1, you do realize that in the Star Wars Universe the BH spend their time killing smugglers, gambler's who welshed on their bets, thieves, thugs, and other assorted low lifes who as a general rule lack elite combat skills? You do realize this don't you? I know that there are exceptions, but most BHs are little more than interplanetary hitmen. Being a killer is as much about remorselessness and cunning as it is actual combat skills. I'd like to see the BH get some sort of devastating first strike sneak attack against opponents who are UNAWARE of their presence. However, going one on one with a real warrior should result in a dead BH nine times out of ten. Anyone who trots out the 217 skill points argument, keep your mouth open so I can shove a quenker down your piehole. You do realize that some of those of skill points go to tracking your targets down? Not all of those skill points go to combat, you guys did realize this didn't you?
Jol69,
I guess you didn't see the 3rd movie where they clone a BOUNTY HUNTER to be the ultimate army!!!! Master Bounty Hunters Hunt Jedi Masters, they are not lowly hitmen. You do realize this don't you?
Lenwe wrote:
jol69 wrote:
How could/should they interact with other professions?
To all of those who think that the BH should own all other combat professions 1on 1, you do realize that in the Star Wars Universe the BH spend their time killing smugglers, gambler's who welshed on their bets, thieves, thugs, and other assorted low lifes who as a general rule lack elite combat skills? You do realize this don't you? I know that there are exceptions, but most BHs are little more than interplanetary hitmen. Being a killer is as much about remorselessness and cunning as it is actual combat skills. I'd like to see the BH get some sort of devastating first strike sneak attack against opponents who are UNAWARE of their presence. However, going one on one with a real warrior should result in a dead BH nine times out of ten. Anyone who trots out the 217 skill points argument, keep your mouth open so I can shove a quenker down your piehole. You do realize that some of those of skill points go to tracking your targets down? Not all of those skill points go to combat, you guys did realize this didn't you?
Jol69,
I guess you didn't see the 3rd movie where they clone a BOUNTY HUNTER to be the ultimate army!!!! Master Bounty Hunters Hunt Jedi Masters, they are not lowly hitmen. You do realize this don't you?
Actually, Jol69 has a good point, let's not be to quick to jump on him for it. While I do not agree with a Bounty Hunter losing 9/10 times in one on one combat, I think his point that Bounty Hunters are mostly tracking and killing the dregs of society.
I like his suggestion about a "surprise shot" and his point about fighting a Warrior Profession is also valid, while I think it is more representative to say 50/50 win /loss (verse losing 9/10 times) he does bring up a good point that should be factored into the process.
Bounty Hunters should get an "advantage" when tracking a bounty (or in any combat situation) in that they should havea "surprise" attack factor.
- Maybe in the first 20 secs of combat (10 secs for PvP), they have an automatic "Intimidation factor" that negates the marks defense mods.
- After that 20 secs, it goes to normal.
Lenwe, don't forget that Bounty Hunters didn't track down and kill jedi in the moives. The only Bounty Hunter that killed Jedi (that I am aware of) use to be a Jedi (and technically still is one), so that is not a fair comparison to say that ALL Bounty Hunters can kill Jedi and Tracked. Vador took out most of the Jedi. As for the Clone Army, you are correct but also keep in mind that the cloneswere geneticly altered to be superiorto Jango.
All are good points, some are more extreme IMO (losing 9 / 10 times), but valid points none the less.
CJKiernan wrote:
What defines theBounty Hunter'srole in combat?
Like most others have stated here, the Bounty Hunter should be the ultimate duel or one-on-one combat class in the game. 217 skill points are invested in the profession and its combat power should accurately represent this.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
They should be the master of "state effects" and be given new trade tools that are effective mainly in duels or one-on-one combat. However, they should not remain the only class in the game that has no defensive capabilities whatsoever. As other professions are allowed to diversify and "stack" defensive bonuses, the Bounty Hunter should be given at least a minimal level of ranged/melee defense, state effect defenses, etc.
What offensive abilities?
Bounty Hunters should be the masters of one-on-one combat. Thus, high amounts of damage (but NOT the highest), better accuracy (on par with other Masters), but no Area of Effect damages beyond LLC fire cone. I love the idea that JEST3R and others proposed on adding wrist launchers, poison darts, etc.I believe it could go beyond this, with schematics for many varied weapons being available through a 3rd Faction "Hutt" or "Underworld" or "Bounty Hunter" Guild recruiter. More on a 3rd Faction below.
Thus, it would be the application of state effects and trade tools that makes the Bounty Hunter the ultimate duel/one-on-one class and not just some "I Win" button (ie. not another Eye Shot or Torso Shot.)
What defensive abilities?
A minimal level of defenses, which would still be a great leap from the defenses Bounty Hunters currently (don't) have. I think the key should be to view the Bounty Hunter as the "Light Tank." High amounts of damage, lower amounts of defense. (But a minimal level has to be established first!)
What unique abilities?
Again, I love JEST3R's comments. They should be given special trade tools to make them a truly respectable one-on-one combat class. It would be the reliance on these trade tools that make them effective.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
In group combat they should act as the "Light Tank" as in other MMORPGs. They need to rely on tactics to position themselves to deal out their high amounts of damage, while avoiding taking the brunt of an assault in PvE/PvP.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
This is where I thinka 3rd Faction shouldcome into play. In the linear, two-dimensional conflict between the Empire and the Rebellion (as it is represented in this game) --the gameplay and roleplay aspects of the Bounty Hunterare ignored.
For example, in Player Associations, Bounty Hunters are told not take a certain GCW-aligned mark or they'll get kicked out. Yet Bounty Hunters in Star Wars canon are hired guns who mainly work for the various criminal elements around the galaxy. They are not in the full-time employ of the Empire, as many here would think. To further dispell this myth,some might evenend up working for the Rebellion from time to time, as they mightwork for acriminal syndicate that issympathetic to the Rebellion. Butby their very nature they are entrepreneurs who work mainly for themselves, not as just another soldier. They are private businessmenand women.
What Bounty Hunters as a class need, and what this game needs, is a 3rd "Criminal" Faction. Allow it to still engage in the main content of this game, the GCW, but in a limited, temporary TEF "mercenary" role. Allow Bounty Hunters to purchase schematics in the "Criminal" Faction for their special trade tools, weapons, and armors. Allow Smugglers to join and get Player Bounties put on their heads. It adds dynamics to this game that I really think should be there. This would also help alleviate the problem Bounty Hunters have with Player Associations dictating their career paths.Criminal Faction PAs may spring up, but due to limited membership the 3rd Faction wouldn't detract from what shouldrightly be the main content of the game -- theGalactic Civil War. It just adds a third element to it that I think this game is missing.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Bounty Hunters should be able to do the same amount of damage and have the same speed and accuracy as Master Pistoleers and Master Carbiniers. Where the difference should lay is in the types of specials these classes have. Pistoleers/Carbiniers obviously will have Area of Effect damages and a wider array of specials tochoose fromfor a wide variety of situations,Bounty Hunters will be strictly focused on taking out a single target. I think it should be this way since, again, the skill point investment is so much more in the BH profession where these other classes have the ability to acquire other skills, and not only in combat, to make their character more diverse. Classes that should out-damage a BH should be Rifleman, Commandos, and melee classes.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Bounty Hunters shouldn't be involved in large-scale Galactic Civil War except as "mercenaries" working for the criminal syndicates, who are sometimes contracted by the Rebel Alliance or Empire.
Longago in a Discussion Forum far, far away... I posted this idea for unique Bounty Hunter abilities.
In the basic description of Bounty Hunters, it's pretty clear that they're supposed to be scary. I propose thattheymake scariness the BH's primary advantage over other combat classes.
Tracking down bounties requires face-to-face confrontation. Therefore, the Investigation line should have the following skills:
Inv I: Bounty Intimidate 1
This works just like the Brawler intimidate, except you don't have to blow 15 SP on it.
Inv II: Bounty Prescence 1
Intimidate in a cone out to48 meters. Basically, the hunter's rep and bearing frighteneveryone he's facing.
Inv III: Bounty Intimidate 2; intimidation defense +20
Works out to 64m, and with a higher chance for success. The defense modifier appears here to discourage dabbling.
Inv IV: Bounty Prescence 2; intimidation defense +20
64 m. cone with a better chance of working.
Master Bounty Hunter: Bounty Prescense 3, intimidation defense +60
A MBH is effectively impossible to intimidate, and can in turn intimidate all foes in a 64m. CIRCLE. When this ability is used, a system message appears for all affected parties saying "[bounty_hunter_name] is coming for you!"
Great care must be taken with this ability in mob-rich environments, of course.
While this would do nothing to make the BH more effective, itcould make anyone fighting the BH less effective, which is just as good. With these abilities mostlyin the Investigation tree, it would ensure that the most dedicated BH's got thegreatest benefit from the unique skills.
With the Intimidation Defense where it is, even if everyone dabbled up to get Bounty Presence 1, mostdedicated BH's wouldn't be as likelyaffected by it. And masters, of course, would bemostlyimmune. Naturally, low-level BH's wouldn't want to tangle with the high-level ones...
What defines the Bounty Hunter Role in combat?
Bounty Hunters are hired to capture or eliminateHUMANOID targets and I think that the profession needs to represent this better. Bounty Hunters should be able to defeat almost any humanoid target on their own. Also, why should they just be good against single targets? Surely bounties could include a particularly tough swoop gang or a group of Corsec deserters. Fighting against a group of weakerhumanoids should also be possible. Currently they are just 'jack of all trades' combat wise and I don't think that works at all.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Although not ascapable as 'dedicated' weapon based professions, Bounty Hunters should be able to use most ranged weapons to an expert level. They should have solid ranged defence and a high resistance to TEFs as anybody who hunts alone is going to have to be **edit** tough.
What offensive abilities?
As I said above they should be very good with all ranged weapons. I would like to see abilities that only effect humanoid targets replacing the ones we have now, but they should bemuch more powerful and reliable. A BH should not be able to take on Krayt Dragons as well as a Commandobut he should be the best against humanoid targets. I also think theidea of Humanoid effecting traps is superb and as said before makes perfect sense as a follow on from the scout trapping, but what about givinga variety of gadgets and 'surprise' weaponary instead of the LLC? The HAM could then be lowered on BH marks and it would reduce the effectiveness of BH's in the GCW too.
What defensive abilities?
Bounty Hunters should have 'solid' ranged defence abilities. Afterall, any BH who survives for any legth of time is going to have to know how to defend against the inevitable return fire. I think it is important to point out that Bounty Hunters are not assassins, they may have to endure fire fights. I like the idea of improved dodging and counter attack and also a reduction in armour HAM penalties to represent training and quite possibly 'living' in their armour; although as a penalty the armour could decay faster to represent its heavy usage. I agree that in melee they should suffer, the trick being to stop the opponent before they get that close.
What unique abilities?
As I have said earlier,special weaponaryto effect humanoids would be great. Start with simple devices like traps then move on to much nastier things like short range flamethrower bracers, dart launchers with various effects and the like. Also armour HAM reductions and I the 'reputation' idea causing penalties on a targets abilities. Skills that can only effect humanoid targets, but are highly effective as befits their specialist training.
Should add what advantage or asset to group combat?
Bounty Hunter skills are not specifically tailored to a group fight, so they would basically be another 'gun' for the group. The way to stop people from becoming Bounty Hunters to partake in the GCW would be to give all Bounty Hunters a skill reduction when in a group to represent the fact they are not trained to work with others. The larger the group, the bigger the reduction. That includes being grouped with pets too.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Mainly by hunting down and eliminating Players who have managed to get bounties placed on them. I think player bounties should come from the marked players actions; constantly losing faction points with a specific group, killing too many Imperials, angering a player association and other such actions should all give the potential for a bounty to be placed. They also need to interact withcraftsmen to keep themselves well equipped and supplied.
What interaction/dependancies should exist with other combatants?
Almostnone at all. Bounty Hunters should work alone. Using a Ranger to help locate a target in the wilds would not be unreasonable, but again, I think all BH skills should recieve a penalty if the BH is grouped.
What should be thier unique role in the GCW?
Apart from being able to accept bounties on certain high profile and troublesome Rebels, nothing. Bounty Hunters are not assassins, agentsor soldiers.
Ice-Cold wrote:
the only thing I wanna see in BH is for them to beable to hunt normal players.. The BH profession shouldnt be "Super Leet" so no one can kill them, I mean, Greedo was a BH but he got killed with one shot..
If you want to look at it that way anything can die in one shot.