Development Cycle Archive

I want to be asst. community manager! I have about 1400 posts!! All I do is scan these boards and comment on things... and the vast majority of posts are actually constructive! Where do I send my application?

Actually, I do want this job, but I know I'm likely not qualified enough compared to the people who must be applying for this, especially since they think they've already found their guy/gal. I don't have enough of the experience they are looking for, and I don't want to drive all the way down to San Diego, and my wife doesn't want to move to Austin (I'm not sure which of the 2 positions that are available he is referring to specifically).

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Holocron wrote:

Are the TEF issues a concern of yours? Do you plan to implement any changes?

Yes, a huge concern, but we don't yet have a solution.

Could we please have a forum area for new content ideas that comes from players?

I am unsure if we can legally do that.

canyou let us know what the Dev Teams' collective take is on the fact that so many view the current incarnation of SWG as 'Pet Wars'?

Well, basically, the feeling is "this is going to be hard to fix."

Our first thought is to enhance droids so that it can at least become Droid Wars, which is Star Warsier.

OK, I probably won't be back to reply to this thread (just setting expectations here)... just wanted to address the top things I saw mentioned.

See you at the chat tonight!

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These are the things I wanted to comment on.

On TEF, and Pet/Droid Wars, an idea (or few):

I can understand TEF's for covert support personnel (like medics). You take a directed action to assist an Overt factioneer, then you make yourself a target. There is still no reason that we cannot get a sysmsg telling us that we are TEF'd though. If stored on a different player, it still 'flags' your char's name, so I would think that the system could easily send that char a sysmsg letting them know that they are TEF. I think there is no reason someone should get TEF'd if they are trading with an Overt Factioneer, though. Now, that is just the normal TEF, not the Revenge Flag.

On the Revenge Flag, I read the only Dev post I could find on this topic that said basically that the TEF is stored on the living character, not the dying one. Unfortunately, it did not explain why we have this at all. I could not surmise whether or not this was the case for the other (non-revenge) TEF's. The Dev did say that as a result of this, the reprog of it is in the works, but that it was difficult, and not a high priority (he cited fixing professions as higher, I can't disagree). I can't understand though, why they dont just simply get rid of the Revenge TEF. It is not necessary, and it is not conducive to an honourable fighting environment... or even to an enjoyable playing experience for all involved (particularly with AT-ST's and Flaming Commandos).

My suggestion is simple, and I'd like those who agree to please /sign below and post your choice of the 3 possibilities I suggest here:

1- Overt dies. Goes to Clone Ctr and spawns Overt. Clone Ctr and 50m surrounding it one cannot initiate (or be initiated into) combat (different from being a combat-free zone).

2- Overt dies. Clone Ctr Window GIVES THE OPTION to clone Overt or Covert.

3- Overt dies. Char clones Covert. 30sec to 1min after cloning, char gets sysmsg that says, "You are now Overt," and becomes Overt again, automatically. This gives them enough time to get out of Dodge, so to speak (usually).

4- Overt dies. Clone window gives the option to clone covert or overt. If Overt is chosen, character clones Covert, then 30sec to 1min timer until he becomes Overt (gets sysmsg as above). (This is the combination of the 2 above ideas, btw.)

5- Overt dies. Clone as Covert. No TEF, no option to be Overt.

Pets:

CH pets fight as normal. Faction pets return to the Datapad upon your death. Problem with this is Suicide Pet Saving.

Solution is to allow living Faction Pets the ability to be cloned (like insurance), and then they can fight on without having to be stored, or saved. The Clone costs X creds per FP sent on the purchase of the pet + 10% of the original FP cost of the pet in faction points again. CH pets should be allowed to be cloned in the same way (50creds/CL). Non-living pets (AT-ST's and Droids) can be insured in the same fashion. Again, the AT-ST insurance would also have a 10% FP cost, from whatever it's original FP price was, in addition to the credit cost. When a pet spawns from a clone, it still sustains a 5pt vitality loss too. This also creates a money sink.

Additionally, I think it would be better if everything needs to be recloned EVERY time it dies. If it dies, and you don't reclone it, then it dies again, it is GONE (permadeath), characters suffer the normal penalties for not recloning. (Again, greater money sink, and makes more business for the medics in the Med Ctrs.)

On AT-ST's in general:

I think the most realistic thing for them to do is allow a lower cost faction pet named the Walker Pilot. This pet can be a normal trooper, with some pretty low stats, and high HAM, but bad pistol (CDEF). Then, if a player has an AT-ST this Walker Pilot can pilot it (until vehicles come out it might be simplest to have the AT-ST e'equip' the ppilot or something). This limits the player to one AT-ST and gives the AT-st the ability to follow orders and act independantly. If it dies, the Walker Pilot dies too. When vehicles come out, the player should also be allowed to pilot one (making it possble for him to own 2), but he gets [1/2 bar wounds, and incapped] if the AT-ST gets taken down, while he's piloting it.

On legality of forum for player content ideas:

Just do the same thing as the the SW.net site does with regard to fanfic. A standard disclaimer that states that all posted content is the sole property of SOE and LucasArts. Heck, you could probably get the disclaimer as it stands from the Lucas group of companies.That should satisfy any legal concerns, but run it by your lawyers first.

Hopefully, though Holo said he won't be posting anymore, he'll still be reading.

Nice work, hawkbatleader1 -- it might be time to start discussingplayer missions again.

One issue that cropped up last time that always has to be addressed is how to prevent players from griefing each other in a player mission system. NPCs (assuming no bugs) can always be counted on to be "fair" -- if you run the mission, you get the promised reward. But how do you insure that behaviorfrom players?

What's to prevent a quest-giver from changing the reward, or simply withholding it? Must the quest-giver actually have the reward in hand (item or money) to award it? What if the quest-giver has the money when the quest is given, but then spends it before the goal is achieved? What's to prevent two players from repeatedlygiving each other simple but lucrativequests (assuming some sort of XP or factionis earned from doing quests)?

I like your player quest proposal. I think player missions,safely implemented, could bemassively fun.SoI encourage you tokeep promoting your concept... butyou need to finish it by looking at the ways it could be abused, and bysuggesting in-game mechanisms that prevent abusive behavior while still allowing the system to be fun to use.

--Flatfingers

I am glad for the post by the devs, but I'd like to point out it is obvious why CH is the most popular class. Their pets DONT DIE like faction pets making the later utterly useless in comparison. So why grind faction when you can train a nvr diminishing population of pets?

Please implement a vitality system for faction pets!!! Not At St's of course because even though i am an imp that would be unfair.

Flatfingers,

Yes, I can be reasonable and rational.

"Peace in the Middle East is not riding on whether CHs are overpowered; making the Merchant profession worth playing will not cure cancer. It seems to me that strong emotion is best reserved for those aspects of human life that deserve it... and a computer game doesn't make the cut."

I agree that there are bigger issues out there. I deal with many of them at work. This game is part of my relaxation, or at least it's supposed to be. Unfortunately, I've been frustrated by certain issues in the gameplay that I feel are being mishandled. Please understand that I tend to be very passionate in the things that I choose to do. That includes work, graduate school, and my relaxation/playtime. From a psychological standpoint, I don't find that emotion is something that you control the level of. What you control is your reaction to that emotion. That said, my reaction wasn't the greatest, I agree. Yet it was honest, and in this case, I feel that it was deserved, to a certain extent. Someone in this thread described the devs as in "a blissful slumber" when it comes to game balance. I agree with this assessment, and I think that a powerfully emotional post like mine may be the only way to wake them up (as distasteful as it may be - but remember thatthey created the situation, and thus have to deal with the fallout).

"UltimatelyI find I get moreof what I want from otherpeople by encouraging them than I doby whacking them on the head with a stick. Positive reinforcement just works better with people, and -- yes -- developers are people, too."

I agree, and in most cases I am extremely positive. I reinforced the devswhen they made the initial decision to lowerpet HAM so that pet classes weren't totally overpowered compared to non-pet classes (this was before non-CH pets, mind you), and I was extremely vocal about it. I endured lots of personal attacks from what I affectionately call "uberniks" because of me defending the devs' decision. At one point, I was even accused of being a fanboi, imagine that. I gave the devscredit for trying to get the game back in balance before it got completely out of hand, all the while rationally explaining that the devs had made a mistake in regards to this profession, and that they were trying to iron it out for the good of the game.

However, as good as positive reinforcement is, what currentbehavior from the devs am I trying to reinforce? "Droid wars?" Hardly. Once again, from a psychological standpoint, when one displays an unwanted behavior, the last thing you want to do is reinforce it. You instead want to extinguish the behavior through punishment. While punishment can take many forms, it is often observed that somepeople only respond to strong stimuli (my rant, in this case)and tend to ignore weak stimuli ("Please, devs, make players more important than pets", for example).I feel, fromthe devs' history, that they fall into this group, at least in regards to this issue. The line that Holo posted that started my rant indicates to me that they are extremely comfortable with the state of the gameplay, and its domination by pets. I find that unacceptable, as do many others. I just provided what could be the loudest voice so far in that respect. As I've stated before, weak stimuli do not appear to be working, so my hand was forced in many ways. If I truly thought that a well-reasoned post could get positive results right now, believe me, I would have much rather opted for that approach. I write those all the time for grad school and work, so that's my comfort zone, really.

"Outbursts about a virtual world just don't serve any useful purpose (other than allowing one to let off steam, but there's no reason why that needs to be published for the world to see). They just make it harder to work constructively to fix the problems."

To a certain degree, I agree with you, but I really haven't seen any desire on the devs part to acknowledge the scope of the issue and a desire to truly fix it, only a flippent answer that, in essence, changes nothing (in a nutshell, the end result appears to be, "We'll change the pet skins to droid skins"). And to say that it doesn't serve any useful purpose - well, I'll have to politely disagree. Your posts agreeing withand expounding upon mymessage (if not the method of delivery) and others' posts in that same regard have occurredas a direct reaction to my outburst/blowup/rant/explosion. The fact that you and I are having a rational discussion that the devs may be reading is worthy in itself. At the very least, they can nowsee that the guy behind the rant and recent criticism of the devs is actually a rational guy with a scientific train of thought.Hopefully, my rantstrikes a chord with some people, and the more that agree (and post to that regard), the more the devs understand that people who do care about the game (and the MMORPG industry as well) think there is a major problem here. Awareness of the problem,particularly the scope thereof, is the first step to solving the problem.

My rant about the process (lack of foresight/analytical skills) followed in the creation of the CH class (and the post by Enix) should shame a couple of people into better work and perhaps a second thought about future processes. There is no way to know if it ever worked, and I'm fine with that. But most anyone with a bit of professionalpride would hate to be called out like that on their own development forum, and would certainly strive for that not to happen again. That, in itself,is apositive result and very constructive.

"I think this forum ought to be the Development forum, not the Criticism forum"

You'l havea hard time getting the former without the latter, sad to say. It's a vital part of the process.

"that means focusing here on suggesting game improvements and enhancements, not on hollering."

Agreed. I'm all about more constructive criticism, if I really believe it will be listened to. At the time I wrote my rant, I didn't believe it would workon this issue.Remember, my reaction was based completely on the history of the devs in regards to this issue. In my mind (and many others, as you look around), they've dug themselvesa huge hole. Until they say something to the effect of, "I really should get rid of this shovel", I'm wasting my breath offering them a rope to get out of the hole. First, they have to stop digging. In this case, they've just decided to use a different implement to keep digging.

"If they take some of those ideas, great; if not, well, no one says we have to keep giving them our money. And life goes on."

Also agreed. I, however, would love to keep giving them my money, and I'm not going to give up without a fight. I see FARtoo much potential for this game to be simply incredible.The player profession/skill system and theoutstandingvariety and replay value it offers is what brought me to this game (ok, that and the fact thatI was7 when Star Wars came out, which automatically made me a big fan). I dream of the day when revenge TEF's are gone, and group PvP means huge blaster and meleefights with player charactersand their chosen skills deciding the outcome. I actually got into one about thefourth week of the game (a huge blaster fight, that is, PvE in nature), and it was by far the most awesome sensory overload I've experienced in a video game. Blaster bolts were flying EVERYWHERE, melees were charging across the battlefield,and it seemed like purechaos. On that day, Iexperienced the fog of war. It was a mind-searing rush, and I want it again.

Continuing with that thought, to be honest, if I didn't care, I wouldn't post. I would have cancelled after my first three months. In fact, that would have beenthe easy way out. But I'll stick it out a bit longer andsee if this issue gets resolved. I'll either fight until it does, or I'll tire of fighting it and just cancel. The determining factor will be progress. The first step of this progresswould be something along the lines ofRaph admitting that pets are overpowered in their current form (relative to players)and that the vision of the dev team is for player characters to become more of a focus than their pets. This is indeed a radical step, and not all will appreciate it. However, many will welcome it.

"we can all go on to morecrucial topics like "When will developers stop tweaking fightersand startaddingmore content for crafters and entertainers?"

My god, man, you already got your own mission terminals! What more do you want???

Great discussing this with you, Flatfingers. I've enjoyed it.

Most popular advanced professions:

1. Creature Handler
   
2. Pistoleer
   
3. Bounty Hunter
   
4. Rifleman
   
5. Merchant

Most commonly mastered advanced professions:

1. Creature Handler
   
2. Architect
   
3. Doctor
   
4. Dancer
   
5. Weaponsmith

Ok only a week or so before it was stated by the devs that commandos and BH were the top of the heap. What happened to that info?

Most Master CH I know are only holding the class untill they see what comes next.One has told me that if mounts become a Bio Eng item there droping CH flat. I really don't blame her.

There really is not much point in mastering CH unless you just like haveing big pets. Once you get enough to have a Graul mauler or something you may as well use the points to master something else. That is if you are truely wanting to be an Uber charecter.

Forgive this post for being a repost off another thread...

Exploiters putting too much cash into the economy?

I think one of thebetter ways to help correct this situation is to exploit the exploiter. By that, I mean to use their own natural tendencies against them in a way that is voluntary and fair. How is that possible you say? Well the best idea I've seen yet is to drastically improve the quality of non-player owned gambling games offered in hotels and some hutt-controlled cantinas. Improve them in terms of graphics, bells & whistles, ease of use.

Exploiters are of the instant gratifacation mindset, and gambling is an irresistable lure for 90% of them. They will waste away what came easy to them playing games where the odds are stacked against them to lose. Las Vegas exists and propsers because of this basic truth.

How much money would it actually take out of the economy? Consider that your average table game yeilds anywhere from 12-18%, even though the odds are normally between 3.5%-5% in the house's favor. In the US's 10 trillion $ economy, gambling revenues are as high as 625 billion a year. Yea, thats about 6% of our entire economy. I would speculate that the numbers would be actually much higher than 6% for our in-game economy.

Some other solutions may be:

1) Creating a system of taxation on the wealthiest players. This could be introduced from a role play perspective as either The Empire commandeering funds/resources to fight its war if youre an Imperial/Neutral, or "seizure" ofrebel cash assets for the same purpose. For imps this could occur on a regular basis at a regular amount, and for rebs this could occur on a random basis with varying amounts for added role play appeal.

Personally, I oppose any sort of taxation as a solution. But if it would fix more problems then it would create, then im open to almost anything.

2) Create environmental hazards. There is currently zero hazard (intended, not bug) of losing soft or hard credits in game, other than player fraud/theft. Moenia is a pretty rough place, for example. There's a lot of street thugs roaming around. It would make sense if they could actually steal cash from you or mug you if they successfully slay you. Whatever amount they took could be based on your actual % of hard credits on person.

Insurance was a good attempt at creating an environmental cash hazard, but we all know that system is bugged, and will likely remain so indefinately.

Another environmental hazard could be to wipe out and reverse all credits acquired within 10 minutes of your last death. Imho, this would also reduce a good % of whatever mission exploiting is still going on.

3) High priced, collectible items, sold by non-player entities. This was Serra's idea, and its an idea that I think is truely worthy of rementioning. Look around you at people who have far too much money for their own good. What do they do it with? They blow it on expensive toys and overpriced works of "art", or anything else that they can their hands on.

Its about status. People will always buy items they dont need and that cost too much, merely for the status of owning said items. This is a solution that is completely voluntary, fair, and would give people who've been successful in their role-playing careeran unobnoxiousway of expressing that fact.

4) And worthy of re-mentioning is the idea of playable, user-friendly, graphic intensive, user-defined-pace, gambling games. Come on, have you played these things? A text based slot machine? 2 minutes between each roulette spin, and no ball or spinning wheel to watch? I find this about as exciting, but not nearly as creative,as the ASCII version of Star Wars I.

Holocron

I am one of the people you describe. I am working up both BH and Ch. I will master niether. For me, playing any MMORG is about having fun. Atm, playing a CH is way more fun for methan playing a BH. Here is a break down of what I am shooting for with my character. I think you will find its common among many players.

Master Marksman / Master Scout / Novice Medic + First Aid 1 / Novice BH + Pistol 4 + LLC 4 / Novice CH + Training 4 + Taming 4 + Empathy 1 + Management 1

As you can see, I do not intend to master any advanced profession. Why? Because there is no reason to. I have talked with a LOT of BH and they all tell me the same thing: Don't waste skill point son the Investigation or Carbine lines. From what I am hearing, Investigation is just a waste of time and effort. Why go to all that trouble to kill a mark when you can make more money and XPs killing a normal PvE mob? To use the carbine specials for BH you have to use a CDEF Carbine or you die. Don't you think that makes that entire line kind of pointless? If I had enough points I would pickup Master CH but we don't have enough points, so I am mastering as much of it as I can. I am seriously considering dropping some of the BH skills to get farther up the CH line and possibly Master it. I could Master CH and still have Pistol 1 (Bleeding Shot) and LLC 1 (Lightning Strike) in BH.

I noticed that you lised the classes with the least number of novices as:

I was truly surprised by his. You mean that a melee class is even less popular than Image Designer? In all the time I have been playing SWG (since it was released) I have only met a single Image Designer. Considering that I play on 2 different servers with inactive characters on 2 others, this seems even more remarkable. I guess someone has to be on the bottom but considering that 3 of those 5 are combat classes I think speaks volumnes. Now, as to your list of least popular Mastered Classes:

This list doesn't make sense. 4 of the 5 are also on the least number of novices, that makes sense. Bounty Hunter is among the top 5 list of classes with the most novices and yet its number 1 with the least masters? How is possible for there to be more Master Image Designers than Master Chefs? There are more Novice Chefs than Novice Image Designers yet a higher percentage of Image Designers are going Master than Chefs? I know of several people who are trying to become Master Chefs yetI know no one who wants to be a Master Image Designer. I think your measuring stick is broke. Maybe I am off base here but considering the number of droid shops that I have seen close up I am amazed that DE didn't make both lists.

Now, it could be argued that my experience is unique and not reflective of the rest of the community but several other people thought DE would be among the bottom 5 so I doubt that is the case.

Regarding the fact that CH may be the top profession, I have a few comments about this. Some of us, myself included, have worked very hard to achieve Master Creature Handler status and should totally benefit from it. The fact of the matter is this: It is too easy for non CH's to acquire the relatively few levels needed in the CH tree to gain almost as much power as a Master CH.....this is simply flawed. There are so many people that come up to me, whether they are Bounty Hunters or Commandos, that are now sporting a lovely GSP or other superior pets. It makes me sick that I worked very hard to achieve Master status and anybody can come along and purchase some of the best pets in the game and use them to further overpower themselves. You see, as a Master CH, you can be easily taken down by a skilled commando or BH with their very high powered weapons.....odds are, they will probably take down all of your pets too right after they finish handing your ass to you. Creature Handlers alone are not the problem, it is the wannabe "elites" that pick the best from every profession to have an almighty powerful character that make us pure CH's look like we actually are powerful in PVP. Granted, CH is a big perk in PVE, but stop for a moment and think about it......we go out into the most treacherous lairs (which is the best part of CH) and tame these vicous beasts with the grown animals looking at you and all you can do is wonder if you will be their next snack. Hunting animals and lairs IS OUR PROFESSION!!!! I think that the CH line has been nerfed more than enough and does not need any further adjustments other than to completely re-evaluate the levels required to handle the "elite" animals. I do not believe that someone with Tame and Train1 should even be able to handle a GSP, and for that matter, I really don't think that non-ch's should have ANY animals at all. We are Creature Handlers for a reason and we should not be punished for those that choose to abuse our field to be the most elite players out there by stacking Bounty Hunter, Commando, CH all on top of each other. I am currently Master CH, Master Scout, 0-3-4-3 Pistoleer, Novice Ranger, and novice Medic.....I have zero skill points left and I am perfectly ok with that. If anyone thinks that those skills together make me an "elite class" in PVP, you are so sadly mistaken it is not even funny. Now a Commando or Bounty Hunter with Tame and Train 2, will completely obliterate me any day of the week as well as multiple other enemies while they are at it. This is one reason that I pretty much steer away from PVP anymore. If you are going to cry nerf the animals, try to actually understand some of the Creature Handlers issues before you start spouting off as if you know what you are actually talking about.

My personal opinion on how to remove the "**edit**" from Star Wars:

1) Do not permit any non CH to handle any animal at all.....they didn't work for it....they don't deserve pets.

2) Raise the Master CH creature cap and raise all the other animals levels at the same time. This would more appropriately only permit the dabblers to use a dabblers quality

I think its funny that merchant is in the top 5 professions. I'll bet you a Million credits that if the generic vendor only cost 1cr per hour that merchant as a profession would almost fall completely off your list.

The profession only has one useful thing and thats the major cost savings for selling your goods.

Try this experiment for a month - change the rates for the basic box vendor to 1cr per hour and make the fancy NPC vendors charge a percentage of the value of the things being sold on them and see what happens.

Everyone will put up the basic vendors and then no one would need the merchant class unless the person wanted more then 1 vendor.

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Holocron wrote:

are all the developers having fun? That's the important thing, right?

I don't know, I haven't asked them lately. I imagine the manacles chafe, but sometimes they do sing when we give them their moldy bread and brackish water.

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