Development Cycle Archive
Thread: A sort of state of the game
How to nerf Creature Handler (the number one occupied profession and the one most responsible for the P-o-kee-mon wars syndrome).
Combat droids, better armor, better weapons, poisoned bait that only Chefs can make, hides for Taylors that can only come from Tamed creatures.
Vehicles with blasters that can run circles around creatures or hit them from the air without taking damage in return.
and
PERMADEATH for tamed Pets. Once the kids face up to the fact they will continually have to work to get new pets then they will migrate to a better profession or quit and go back to playing Po-ke-mon.
Ah, hello, Jherek -- I see you're looking to start the "Smash CH!" firestorm over here as well as in Discussion. 
Jerry Cornelius would be proud....
--Flatfingers
Anteraan, I have to apologize in advance for the brevity ofthismessage (or maybe that's a Good Thing!). I'd say more to give yourlastcomments thedetailedresponse they deserve, but I'm caught in a time bind -- regardless, I had to say a word of thanks.
Ultimately I think we're not so far apart on how we react to SWG. I understand completely what you mean about being passionate about this game -- like you, I got it into after hearing about it years ago; I was dreaming up massive design suggestions pre-beta; I've got a lot of personal time and energy invested in it; I really, really want it to succeed, both on its own as well as within and to grow the entire MMOG industry. And so, like you, it makes me a little nuts to see things that appear to be obvious problems not just being created, not just being (apparently) ignored, but actually duplicated to make things worse!
Personal experience orinnate predispositionsmay play a role here, but this is where I think we travel slightly different paths. Despite real irritation over some issues, I'm just not prepared to make it personal. Maybe I've been beaten down by life, or I'm just pragmatic, but whatever the cause, it's hard for me to see how expressing negativefeelings can have a positive result. That's the source of my comments to you.
But that's just my style. If you get results,then I can't reallycriticize, can I? 
Most importantly, I very much appreciate your thoughtful response. I seem to have gotten myself into a little flamefest over in Discussion (you'd have thought I'd said Donovan McNabb wasn't a good quarterback!), so a thoughtful and respectful conversation like this one is a genuine pleasure. Thank you for making it so.
Now about those darn Merchant skills....
--Flatfingers
this is the first time ive posted on one of these boards ....its actually the first time ive played a mmorpg before so i might not know what im talking about but i do notice some glaring problems in this otherwise bueatifl game....and of course the biggest problem is pets. Now i might be new to this but why even have them? why were they put in in the first place. The first thingi noticed about this game was the bueaty and detail of the scenery, it was gorgoues then i walked into a cantina and i could see anything because a gaint hairy monster was in the cantina....i thought to myself whats wrong here this has no place in starwars....ehen i tried pvp wanted to see what it was about so iwent overt and tried to pick off a rebel on the edge of town he didnt hit me once....i died though because once i attcked him two sludge panthers something else and a droid attacked me now the droid i can understand but whats with the animals so i asked around and did some more pvp and i figured out a few things 1) everyone and thier brother has a pet 20 most people use them so the can get easy xp and credits....one guy explained he needed it for when creatures got close....i asked him why not get a sword like i did...he laughed he said his pet was his sword and he never had to get hit....i asked him if he thought that was realistic he said no but said he didnt want to have to work to get rifle xp...i said 'Oh i see' then told him he should just get a sword instead of pulling a full grown 9000 ham creature out of his pocket. He also told my though my weapon decays and wears down his pet never dies just gets knocked out....i said so i guess theres no point in the melee classes he said yup....i felt bad but decided to stick to the sword instead of getting an undying killing machine.....then i tfought this wookie (there seems to be a lot of wookies....one told me he chose the race withh the best ham scores...i said that explains it) he had a flamethrower that hit me for over 1000 damage, i was well into the elite sword class using a good weapon i hit him for 110 or so.....i died then someone ran by and healed my did he die yes he did the wookie pulled something ( a large hairy monster similar to the ones found in starports, medcenters, and catinas all over the universe....because where else would they be?) out of his POCKET....i thought hmm thats odd that woiokie must have a extrademensional backpack on or something....the monster killed the person who was helping me then proceeded to kill me...the wookie laughed and told my he was the man and had the flamethrower and pet to prove it. i thought to myself why should i even try being anything then a commando with a pet, or a creature handler, then i saw a bounty hunter in pvp action, shooting peoples eyes, etc. and said well i could be that....i looked at my carbine and shrugged...why be something else....looking around i saw that just about everybody was a commando or bounty hunter or creature handler, i thought wow thats odd so they make a game with all these cool classes, i spend all this time perfecting my skill witha blade, and it gets down to the fact unless i have a flamethrower or a wholezooo fulll of pets i have no purpose other then craftibg things ....that is the real crime i discovered of these superclasses....i want to participate in the civil war and now it seems that unless i want to "play **edit** " as ive heard people describe it i have no purpose, if i mastered my carbine skill guess how useful id be...yes u got it , not very....so here we have a game with armorers and weaponsmiths and all kinds of cool races and weapons and what does it come down to a battle of pets that get pulled out oif ones pocket...and flamethrowers, and bounty hunters with pistols.....shouldnt all the elite weapon classes at master level be more or lesss equal....how come my pistol shoots as far as my rifle. So much potential, i talked to my friend the other day and he told me powerlevelers with pets are always a big problem in these kinds of games....if everyone knows this why did they put them in in the first place...i mean u cant get rid of the powewrlevelers ...but its very easy to get rid of the pets or at least make them less useful. like i said this is the first time ive played a mmorpg so maybe im wrong but why would the developers want to make all these classes and weapons and skill trees and create this bueatiful universe with all its scenery then reduce combat to flamethrowers vs. rancors vs eyeshots vs someother hairy monster. I cant imaginre they would....and i dont understand why they dont fix it.
oh yeah sorry about the spelling....
Freyal Sno'frey (ranger)
On some servers, armorsmith is probably the least mastered class. On the Tempest server, there was only ONE MAS on the whole the server, the others before retired because they got bored, made more money than they knew what to do with, and were tired of beingswamped for composite (we're talin 2 week waiting lists here, and I am not even joking). That's why I moved to Corbantis, many more MAS's. I feel sorry for those poor guys on tempest, especially the lone MAS (I feel for yah Mizax). It may have gotten better now, but that was the situation about a month ago. It is a very popular class though, and their uses will be indefinate as long as people are taking damage.
I just wish I could say the same for the Bio-Engineers, they have an almost useless class, droid engineers are getting the shaft too, but they're steadily geting worked on now that BH's HAVE to go to them to get their droids. All the brawler spawned classes (including brawler) are getting the shaft too, but for reality reasons, not game mechanics. I don't even know why they have brawlers in this game. The only melee weopon I can recall from the moviesis lightsaber, and the only reason those have plausability in the SW world is because of their effectiveness in dealing with ranged weapons, which is why melee sucks in this game. You may see a few vibro axes or something in the movies, but those were carried by primitave creatures who were usually indoors (Jabba's guards would be an example), but other than that NOTHING. They should just take out melee classes and replace it with some kind of battlefield based class, a class that allows you to effectivley manouver around without getting hit and doing various missions on the battlefield, this way both of commando's sub professions can actually apply to the hybrid profesion.
I know that what I have to say will probably piss a lot of people off, (and i can't blame you) especially those who have taken the time (and money) to advance through these mediocre classes, but you got to look at the big picture, any adjustments made to melee to put it on par with ranged capabilities would be totally farfetched. You people want the brawlers to be able to run faster, well, last i checked, blasters wieghed a LOT less than most melee wepons,and all you have to do is pull the trigger to make a firearm work, whereas those taking a melee approach have to rely on a LOT of skill and precision just to have your attacks have any effect WHATSOEVER. And you say that melee damage should be more than ranged, please guys,an energy blast is realistically going to do muchmore than a sword. Why do you think the evolution ofground basedwarfare has grown into 99%fire power, because guns kill very easily! Duh!When's the last time you've heard of a soldier running into the enemy with his knife brandished, rambo style? Never, because the enemy would just fire a couple of rounds, and the soldier's finished. I also don't think a melee class should come anywhere close tosoloing a, let's say, rancor, kimo, grauler, and any other large creature that would just as soon make players a mid morning snack. I also imagine it would be fairly difficult to barehand creature with thick scales, what are you gonna do, body slam it, give me a break.
Let's face it folks, melee was a mistake that SOE didn't (for some wierd reason) see before implamentation. So, hopefully, when the expansions come out they will fix this mess, because this issue is just WAY to big to be able work on now, along with the dozens of other "what the hell were we thinking" fixes that they need to make to this game.
PS: Even though this is a lot of ranting, I do feel that SOE is doing a good job on this game. I also realize that this is a HUGE game and a lot things can go wrong. I'm just trying to point things out AND provide the basis for what I honestly feel is the proper way solving the problem.
Anyhow, if you've read this far, I do wholly thank you, and any feedback (constructive please) would be greatly appreciately. After all, if we all don't bring these issues to the front, they're never going to get fixed.
Here are some of my thoughts:
There should be more droids than pets in the game. Really, its Star Wars and droids are one of the main thing that makes star wars well, star wars. Sure, there should be creature handlers, but they need to be more restricted so it dose not become one of the "overly popular proffessions".
Which brings me to my next point. Fix the classes like commando and creature handler that are overly powerful. Also fix the classes like brawler that are way too underpowed and out done by more popular proffessions. If its not fixed, pretty soon over half the players in the game will all be creature handlers and commandos. It is not as fun without veriaty. My suggestion? Make damage out put and accuracy of commando fall, make creatures less damage and less HAM bars, either get rid of meele, or make them have "agility".
Now to elaborate on my suggestion of agility. This could be a whole branch of brawler, or of meele base elite classes. Agility would let a brawler player run faster than a regular player when in battle, say someone with a blaster. It would also let them have a "dodge" ability. Matrix style! lol. Not really. accually, dodge should let them do kung fu moves like backflips and rolls. Even people with swords. To dodge the lasers from a blaster, they could dodge while they run at them and do things like sumersaults and jumps. This would give the guy with the blaster a huge accuracy penalty, but would take from the brawler's HAM bars. Only the dodge would take HAM though, not the brawler player being able to run faster, there is burst run for that! lol. Ok, and also it would be nice if the brawler did not have an accuracy penalty while running. This would only be fair since a brawler could run faster. But the max range for a brawler should be reduced as a conciquence.
Now,
On to my next rant, i mean suggestion. Make crafting easier. I love crafting as one of my characters is an architect, but i will not bore you with that. Crafting is the main staple of the game. Where would our items come from if it were not for crafters? But then here comes those dang recorce shifts nad harvester problems. The recorce shifts should only happen about once every one or two months, if at all. You get there recorces, then get 5 critical faliures. So why not make it easier to craft, and more crafting for non artistan proffessions, like for scout and medic.
Most of these suggestions are about the proffessions, heck all of them are. Which brings me to my overall point. The main thing wrong with this game is the proffessions are messed up. Fix that, and the bugs, and this game would be nearley flawlwess. I hear people complaining about needing more content, well there are tons of worlds that are huge and takes and hour to traverse the maps. i'd say this game is crammed full of content. good job devs.
However there are many things, some of which i have mentioned above, that need fixed. I hope that the devs read my suggestions and take them into consideration, along with everything everyone else has said. This is a fun game and I know it is going to get even better in the future.
Wow, lots of feedback. This is great. Well, there is my2 centsheh.
Later.
PWT wrote:
What about the Least Popular Advanced Profs and Least Commonly Mastered?
Thanks,
PWT
That's easy.
Image Designer...
Image Designer...
Hello friends,
Point 1. I love the game. I left everquest for it, and I had been playing that game since it came out. What attracted me to SWG was the chance to advance without constant "hack and slash."
Point 2. I am on the server Shadowfire. One of the most recently added servers. There has been an on-going problem of Resource Changes. As I only play on this server, I do not know if it is unique to my server or comman amoung all servers. It seems that there is a nearly, though not quite, a day to day modification and/or a change to resources. This is both organic and inorganic.
Point 2a. These constant changes required the remapping, via new survey's, of inorganic resources. It also requires a sampling of various organic life to determine if a change also took place in meat, hide, or bone. This is sometimes exhuasting to do. Time that should be spent on game play, is instead, devoted to finding out what is what.
Point 2b. As a result of these changes, the following adverse affects are received.
Inventory space becomes an issue. You still have an existing supply of X resource, but at the same time, that supply is not finite. Thus, you have to harvest the Y resource replacing the deleted X resource. This means you double your inventory for each item of resource changed.
Crafting becomes difficult, as one resources had certain values, and not the replacement(if there is one) has a different value. On shadowfire, many crafters are giving up their professions to avoid the constant difficulties the myrid resource changes impose.
The economic impact on the server is also a factor. The bazaar can not be reflective of values. Prices are inflated if a resource is deleted or replaced by one of less or suddenly greater quality and such.
Player communites are often built around the harvesting of inorganic resources. There is a obvious logic to this. These communites are now constantly disrupted, often causing the relocation of homes and business.
Harvesters must be moved of course to new locations. This is neither cheap nor easy. You have the cost of(if you want the deed back) paying the price for destruction, and then the cost of maintenance all over again when setting up in the new location.
The bottom line here to all this is: this situation distracts from game play and leads to dis-satifaction of swg in general. This particular problem, again, must be addressed.
Point 3. Is the game SWG or Animal WG. I admitt I have a pet bearded jax, I play a doctor, so is nice when I am in the wastelands of Tatoonie, researching once again for the changed resources, to have a protecter to back me up. Yet, I see now, so many pets that it is overwhelming. Everyone and his brother too has one. I thought honestly, that CH would be the sole owners of pets, and that the droid would be more toward the non Ch player to obtain.
Point 4. I non faction medic, doctor, etc, can not heal an overt faction player. This seems wrong. A doctor such as I heals the injured. In real life, in war, such as in Iraq, our medical military personal took care of injured enemy personal. I would think that would apply in SWG. I realize reality is often not a factor in rpg games, but this point should be looked at.
Point 5. As a doctor I can heal organic pets. I can use any of my stims to do this. Yet, there are Pet stims. Very few use them as the medical side of the house has higher healing stims that are more effective on the upper end pets then a pet stim. It would seem to me, as a Doctor, I am just that. I am not a Vet. I think, and this would perhaps help with the over-population of player pets by non CH, that only a pet stim could heal pets. Add to this, a pet stim is only usable by, again, as an example.. BE or CH. The same would apply to vitality packs. There has to be some control here. Also, it places an added import to the two classes. We all can dable as a novice medic, but to work so hard to fill squares, just to be able to heal a pet, most would not do. The skill points needed would work against that.
I close now. I restate, I love the game. I run a thriving business in the making of B stims and B wound packs, which I sell out of my home. I enjoy what I do, and helping others. Each of us brings to the game their own needs and wants. I have found the game to meet mine quite readily. I have listed, what I consider to be valid points of attention by the SWG DEv and staff. Comments are certainly welcomed on my views.
Respectfully,
Succouro, of the Sisters of Mercy, Shadowfire.
P.S. I am but the muse. Any incorrect use of language, spelling, etc.. is the fault of the scribe.
my 2 cents.....
Instead of having various "battlefield locations" dotted over various planets in out of the way locations (which no one really uses - it may be better to have one or two planets - i dunno a high level and low level "planet" or "asteroid belt" where whoever transports there will be thrown into a battlefield location where ownership of land / areas (with some sort of holy grail) - I hate making comparisons to games but sort of like daoc - but this will focus energies on raids for "gain" - try to put your own SWG spin on it - maybe owning certain spaceport allows Imps / rebs or neutrals access to further foreign planets/asteroids which give access to rare metals/resources - that can only be used in crafted items that are only used in the battlefield planet....this stops potentially high level weapons/critters returning to the typical planet system and stuffing up the percieved balance....
But the current battlefields suck bad....pvp needs some edge and focus
Hehehe CH most popular?!? No way you're kidding right
Popular no it's almost mandatory to even play this game. Reguardless of how many players you get all together to hunt you MUST have a pet or 2 or 3. Otherwise you just all die a quick and nasty death. I read up on the game before it came out and saw what classes were comming. But who whould have thought that you MUST have some CH skills to hunt anything bigger than a Gnort solo.
I liked the idea of eveyone have roughly the same stats but once i saw a CH take down a Fambaa solo (with 2 pets blocking for her) the game was over for me. I had to become a CH to get anywhere. In all the early pics i saw there were player attacking giant beasts and AT-ST's but I didn't see any pets blocking for them. This gave me the idea that I could play the way I WANTED TO PLAY not how I must play in order to survive.
Now I'm not saying to nerf or remove the CH prof. Heck I like being a CH. But it's not the char I wanted to make. In all other MMOG you gained more hitpoints as you leveled but since this is a skil based game I thought that you would be able to dish out more damage and shake off or avoid getting hit as you skilled up.
Nope guess I was wrong again. Getting killed in one or two hits at the "master level" makes you feel not os masterfull.
END OF RANT