Development Cycle Archive
Thread: In-Concept Open Discussion (6-28-04)
Neige
Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:21 am
#144
Proactive way to discourage dabbling
Make the Master skill box GIVE skill points instead of COSTING some. Those master skill points can only be used to related tree.
For example:
On Mastering the brawler profession, one "gains" say 3 master skill points, wich can be used on any Fencer, Swordman, Pikeman or Teras Kasi skill box.
On mastering the fencer profession, gains another 3 master point, wich can be used on Brawler (if not mastered), Swordman, Pikeman or Teras Kasi.
Rationale:
By mastering a profession, one gets general insight into similar professions and can use what he learned to progress more in some related field.
Same can be applied to medical, crafting, entertainment profession.
Potential problem:
This would maybe cause more stacking of defenses. But i read that the stacking topic will be adressed in combat rebalance, so this could not really be a problem.
Zangorag
Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:16 am
#145
I would love to see landspeeders be able to hold 2 players like in the Star Wars movies.
ArmageddonHarbinger
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:13 am
#146
What SWG needs!(?)
What I see as the problem:
Much focus lies on the current and obvious problems of SWG and the coming JTL expansion. The number one issue being the combat balance and the revamp of the Jedi and GCW systems.
But I can't help imagening just past that.
The combat balance and GCW updates are when you look at them merly fixes on a broke system and the Jedi changes only basically a revision.
The JTL expansion could also turn out to be nothing more then another combat engine unless serious effort is placed on a good space based quest/adventure system.
The last statement is what I think lies at the core of SWG's issues and one of the main reasons many players abandon the game with the comment 'It had a lot of potential but never fulfilled it'
Players of MMORPGs need to adventure together and solve/beat challenges as a social experience. This is what lies at the hart of these games and decides if the game has lasting appeal.
And this is what SWG is truly missing. Large amounts of readily accessible quests/adventures for player teams to undertake.
Many people say that high end pvp is the true elder game of SWG and that the combat balance and Jedi/GCW revisions will set things right.
But I only partly agree with this. Yes, pvp is an integral part of SWG and should remain so, but if it is eventually the only activity vailable in its current form (level up, get the uber equipment and kill other players ad infiniyu), then the game is in serious trouble.
Some of you might now be saying ' but we have the DWB, Geo lab, corvette, the POIs, badges and the coming JTL'
In my opinion that is sadly hardly enough and the quest/mission/POI system we now have is a poor shade of what could have been a good and involving adventure system.
The Corvette and DWB are in my opinion travesties of adventure sites ( will use 'site' instead of 'dungeon' for the rest of this post), withe the Geo Lab and Warren coming closest to being decent cites.
The enjoyment players get from the first two is basically from having 'been there, done that, got badge', and not experiencing the challenge in it self as a team. These sites do nothing more then frustrate players for little or no reward.
Even with a good adventure system in JTL, the core part of the game and the worlds that eventually follow later in JTL space will be void of proper adventure.
The POI system is in it self laughable. Open your datapad to get a wp for a special spot and go there and camp in hope of good loot. It does not convey much in the sense of achievment and player immersion in the world.
Mission terminals with random missions hold exactly the same problems as the POI system. It's just rinse and repeat for xp and cash.
Wierd thing is that some of the more enjoyable group moments I've had have been on group mission hunts. This is because we did them as a cooperating team with commmon goals. Level up.
Now this post may up to this point seem like nothing more then a moan and whine at the awsome work the devs have done.
That is not my intent. I still think this is a game with great potential and all the past and coming changes are great pieces of work going in the right direction.
Congratulations to the devs on their work so far.
The reason I write this post is that the 'broke' parts of the game get all the creative attention and the core future issues of lacking content and immersive adventure get little mention or is barly discussed.
I was actually quite surprised to find the JTL expansion being pushed before adding a good and immersive adventure/quest system to the existing worlds in the game. And Im now worried that we will be left with a good combat system, revised Jedi/GCW system and new starfighters to fly, but still have nothing more to do then kill each other at random.
Basically having a good set of game mechanics and systems to play around with but little or nothing to do with them : (
This is what I think should be done:
When the combat balance is in place and Jedi and GCW revisions are done, the main game should be treated to an extensive range of publishes/updates along the theme 'Worlds Rebuilt' either before, after or during JTL implementation.
This development should aim for reworking the entire POI/mission/quest/site system and seek to create a huge, immersive, rewarding and accessible adventure system as possibly can be done.
What I see as the problem:
Much focus lies on the current and obvious problems of SWG and the coming JTL expansion. The number one issue being the combat balance and the revamp of the Jedi and GCW systems.
But I can't help imagening just past that.
The combat balance and GCW updates are when you look at them merly fixes on a broke system and the Jedi changes only basically a revision.
The JTL expansion could also turn out to be nothing more then another combat engine unless serious effort is placed on a good space based quest/adventure system.
The last statement is what I think lies at the core of SWG's issues and one of the main reasons many players abandon the game with the comment 'It had a lot of potential but never fulfilled it'
Players of MMORPGs need to adventure together and solve/beat challenges as a social experience. This is what lies at the hart of these games and decides if the game has lasting appeal.
And this is what SWG is truly missing. Large amounts of readily accessible quests/adventures for player teams to undertake.
Many people say that high end pvp is the true elder game of SWG and that the combat balance and Jedi/GCW revisions will set things right.
But I only partly agree with this. Yes, pvp is an integral part of SWG and should remain so, but if it is eventually the only activity vailable in its current form (level up, get the uber equipment and kill other players ad infiniyu), then the game is in serious trouble.
Some of you might now be saying ' but we have the DWB, Geo lab, corvette, the POIs, badges and the coming JTL'
In my opinion that is sadly hardly enough and the quest/mission/POI system we now have is a poor shade of what could have been a good and involving adventure system.
The Corvette and DWB are in my opinion travesties of adventure sites ( will use 'site' instead of 'dungeon' for the rest of this post), withe the Geo Lab and Warren coming closest to being decent cites.
The enjoyment players get from the first two is basically from having 'been there, done that, got badge', and not experiencing the challenge in it self as a team. These sites do nothing more then frustrate players for little or no reward.
Even with a good adventure system in JTL, the core part of the game and the worlds that eventually follow later in JTL space will be void of proper adventure.
The POI system is in it self laughable. Open your datapad to get a wp for a special spot and go there and camp in hope of good loot. It does not convey much in the sense of achievment and player immersion in the world.
Mission terminals with random missions hold exactly the same problems as the POI system. It's just rinse and repeat for xp and cash.
Wierd thing is that some of the more enjoyable group moments I've had have been on group mission hunts. This is because we did them as a cooperating team with commmon goals. Level up.
Now this post may up to this point seem like nothing more then a moan and whine at the awsome work the devs have done.
That is not my intent. I still think this is a game with great potential and all the past and coming changes are great pieces of work going in the right direction.
Congratulations to the devs on their work so far.
The reason I write this post is that the 'broke' parts of the game get all the creative attention and the core future issues of lacking content and immersive adventure get little mention or is barly discussed.
I was actually quite surprised to find the JTL expansion being pushed before adding a good and immersive adventure/quest system to the existing worlds in the game. And Im now worried that we will be left with a good combat system, revised Jedi/GCW system and new starfighters to fly, but still have nothing more to do then kill each other at random.
Basically having a good set of game mechanics and systems to play around with but little or nothing to do with them : (
This is what I think should be done:
When the combat balance is in place and Jedi and GCW revisions are done, the main game should be treated to an extensive range of publishes/updates along the theme 'Worlds Rebuilt' either before, after or during JTL implementation.
This development should aim for reworking the entire POI/mission/quest/site system and seek to create a huge, immersive, rewarding and accessible adventure system as possibly can be done.
Here are my specific suggestions for the adventure system:
Create a tree of hundreds of quests with adventure sites branching from the beginner worlds and out to the tougher ones and the worlds to come. The root beginning quests should be from the beginning NPC cities and lead to a central trunk of quests in the mid range worlds and then branching off to the tough worlds. Potentially a player could go back to all the beginner root cities and have easy access to all the beginner quests if he wants to do them all or postpone the really hard challenges. Large amounts of adventure to be easily found according to player taste or play time available! Or just do one beginning root and follow the central trunk and specific later branches if you wish to focus on the more demanding, rewarding and time consuming challenges!
No extensive random searching should be needed to find these quests. In example have the first quests the players find and fill the prerequisites for, located in the Cantinas of the beginning player cities. As players adventure through quests their travels should lead them to other cities and sites (parts of cities, outdoor adventure areas, indoor sites or combinations) that with natural exploration required by the active quest reveal more quests. Completing a quest should also lead/give wps to other areas where new quests could be found. This way follow up quests and new quests could introduced easily. Eventually the thread/branch of quests lead to tougher worlds and new quest starter points for that world.
Remove the entire POI system. The adventure/quest system should be entirely driven through NPC interaction and storytelling.NPC’s that can give quests should always be properly marked. A gold marker above the head could mean he/she has a quest that you meet the prerequisites for and can accept, and a silver marker represents a quest that you either must have a bigger party to do, have more skills or access to the right professions yourself or in your team in order to be granted the quest. If the marker is removed then you have completed the quest.When you find and talk to these NPC’s their location and quest status should be automatically recorded in your data pad. (as quest ‘available, active, need skills, need profession, need bigger party, need faction membership, need overt status or/and need a certain standing within a NPC faction).The NPC given random missions that exist today should be removed and restricted to terminals to avoid confusion.
Quest threads/branches should also be heavily linked to the other NPC factions in the game and the availability of quests should depend on your standing with these factions. Doing a long series of linked Hutt quests should result in corresponding faction standing changes and lawful quests should become unavailable and the law coming gunning for you! After doing much work for a specific NPC faction the player should receive special benefits from that faction but also hostile attention from opposing factions.A great way for setting your characters place and role in the world!Beginner quests should not require much in faction standing, so that people who want to change their faction standings can slowly work their way up to a new position.
Quests could have multiple profession requirements for completion, giving roles and adventure purpose to all professions. For example in order to open the door to get into an underground combat site a pass code is required. Only a smuggler can slice the sec systems and enter the code. The code is held initially by a NPC that needs to be fast talked out of the code by a politician. The NPC also has hostile guards that need to be soothed by an entertainer before the NPC is willing to speak etc, etc, etc. Adventure purpose and group roles for all!!
Smugglers would with this system be very valuable to an exploring party since they need to have their sliced and other illegal items hidden while they explore cities and other faction NPC heavy areas in order to complete these quests. (Smugglers do of course need to be of more use then this, but this is one way to use their special talents. They can go unmolested where others may not!)
Rework the entire badge system. Badges should only be granted for completed quests.Finding and experiencing special locations should be a part of the quest experience and immersion.
These badges should also serve as player markers for the quest/adventure system. Ie the badge is needed to unlock a new quest or if game development updates or changes a quest or an entire quest thread/branch, players with the old badge get a automated mail stating that the quest has changed and new options are available (offshoot quests) and/or the quest can be redone in its newest version for an up to date badge.
Rework the entire badge system. Badges should only be granted for completed quests.Finding and experiencing special locations should be a part of the quest experience and immersion.
These badges should also serve as player markers for the quest/adventure system. Ie the badge is needed to unlock a new quest or if game development updates or changes a quest or an entire quest thread/branch, players with the old badge get a automated mail stating that the quest has changed and new options are available (offshoot quests) and/or the quest can be redone in its newest version for an up to date badge.
Players with the badge should no longer be able to get the quest or quest specific rewards granted through NPC’s or instanced sites. (Instanced reward system for economic balancing and reduction of camping practices)
Encourages exploring new content and helping other players!
Encourages exploring new content and helping other players!
Use three interlocking quest trees. One Neutral, one Imperial and one Rebel. As long as you meet the prerequisites you can do any quest in any tree.
These trees could in addition to having npc only pve challenges also have opposing goals at the same adventure site and serve as great directed/goal oriented GCW content. For example a quest in the IMP tree could require that a NPC receive escort and protection between certain points at set times. The opposing reb quest could be killing this same NPC in transit. Success in such a mission would mean significant bonuses in faction points and penalties in the same and redoing the quest if you fail.
If no opposing player has the opposing quest within the same time frame you are left with the NPC opposition to handle and can still complete the quest.
Another similar opposed quest for an adventure site could be seize and hold a site for a set duration. If you capture the site and hold it for the time the quest specifies you complete the quest and if you fail to seize or hold the site within the set time you fail the quest and it is reset.
Hundreds of opposed quests could be created with new and varied objectives.
Spreading out opposed quests at all levels of the tree would also allow Imp and Reb players to start their pvp experience at an early level and bring tougher challenges as they get further up the tree, acquire more skills and encounter tougher NPC and player opposition. This would make directed pvp more available and not just an elder sport that all young or mid level players fear or shun.
These trees could in addition to having npc only pve challenges also have opposing goals at the same adventure site and serve as great directed/goal oriented GCW content. For example a quest in the IMP tree could require that a NPC receive escort and protection between certain points at set times. The opposing reb quest could be killing this same NPC in transit. Success in such a mission would mean significant bonuses in faction points and penalties in the same and redoing the quest if you fail.
If no opposing player has the opposing quest within the same time frame you are left with the NPC opposition to handle and can still complete the quest.
Another similar opposed quest for an adventure site could be seize and hold a site for a set duration. If you capture the site and hold it for the time the quest specifies you complete the quest and if you fail to seize or hold the site within the set time you fail the quest and it is reset.
Hundreds of opposed quests could be created with new and varied objectives.
Spreading out opposed quests at all levels of the tree would also allow Imp and Reb players to start their pvp experience at an early level and bring tougher challenges as they get further up the tree, acquire more skills and encounter tougher NPC and player opposition. This would make directed pvp more available and not just an elder sport that all young or mid level players fear or shun.
All NPC city cantina bartenders should on request list the total number of undiscovered Imp, Reb and Neutral quests on that world. In this manner players can keep track of the number of quests that they have completed of the available total and if any new unlinked or thread/branch starter quests have been added to the world.
Make all quests related to one player, even if a team is needed to do the quest. In this manner only the team leader’s quest is active. Active quests belonging to other players in the team become ‘sleepers’ as long as they don’t have lead and are team members. This makes quest and game world interaction easier and if members come and go in the team as the quest progresses or if several play sessions are required to complete it. (This means that squad leader abilities need to function even without team lead).
This would also allow a team to all activate the same quest, and change leader after quest completion in order to rapidly access and play the same site over and over for instant action or have a cooperating team that follows each other through a branch/thread of quests.
This would also allow a team to all activate the same quest, and change leader after quest completion in order to rapidly access and play the same site over and over for instant action or have a cooperating team that follows each other through a branch/thread of quests.
Instanced sites!!!
Make as many as the sites, parts of sites, enemy spawns and/or loot containers instanced as possible.
This eliminates camping problems and gives instant action enjoyment.
Instancing should be reflexive. This means that if a player has the quest active as team leader, the team has as a whole has access to the instanced content and will enter their own personal game world at the site or parts of it, or the only ones able to trigger special spawns or pick up special loot. If the team leader does not have the appropriate quest, then any adventure site encounterd remains uninstanced and the entire site will be shared by other non quest groups/players and only with the random spawns and loot available. If the team leader is killed, disbands the group or leaves an instanced site, a site specific time limit for team leader return/member return to group should be activated. Teams without the initiating quest site leader or members outside the group should be barred from progressing past specific key points and be kicked out of the instanced version if this time limit is broken.
Completion of certain tasks and recovering certain loot should give the active quest holder invisible electronic markers (temporary incomplete badges) so that the game knows what has been completed/gained by the player. This allows working on quests over time and returning to the point where you stopped last and prevents exploiting by forcing multiple spawns to gain the same loot over and over. This also allows returning to a favourite site as an uninstanced version if you feel like hunting certain random loot or replaying favourite battles/encounters.
Make as many as the sites, parts of sites, enemy spawns and/or loot containers instanced as possible.
This eliminates camping problems and gives instant action enjoyment.
Instancing should be reflexive. This means that if a player has the quest active as team leader, the team has as a whole has access to the instanced content and will enter their own personal game world at the site or parts of it, or the only ones able to trigger special spawns or pick up special loot. If the team leader does not have the appropriate quest, then any adventure site encounterd remains uninstanced and the entire site will be shared by other non quest groups/players and only with the random spawns and loot available. If the team leader is killed, disbands the group or leaves an instanced site, a site specific time limit for team leader return/member return to group should be activated. Teams without the initiating quest site leader or members outside the group should be barred from progressing past specific key points and be kicked out of the instanced version if this time limit is broken.
Completion of certain tasks and recovering certain loot should give the active quest holder invisible electronic markers (temporary incomplete badges) so that the game knows what has been completed/gained by the player. This allows working on quests over time and returning to the point where you stopped last and prevents exploiting by forcing multiple spawns to gain the same loot over and over. This also allows returning to a favourite site as an uninstanced version if you feel like hunting certain random loot or replaying favourite battles/encounters.
Quest holder loot system.
All quest specific items or rewards that are not directly granted to the active quest holder should be marked by a yellow box or similar marker in inventory when they are picked up/looted by team members. Marked quest specific objects of this type can only be carried by other team members but not possible to equip or use. They can only be traded to the quest holder or other members in the same team. If they are traded to the quest holder the marker and limitations disappears and he is free to distribute them as he sees fit. If the carrier of such an item leaves the group/LD’s or the group disbands the item should be auto transferred to the initial quest holder. This prevents loot griefing and the quest becoming bugged/unpassable due to lost items.
Solo players at the site without the quest active should not have access to quest specific rewards, loot and objects. Only the random or set uninstanced content.
Random mission terminals should be made severely less important as a source of combat income. Focus should be shifted over to quest rewards in the form of hard creds and sellable special loot.
This would further increase player enjoyment of quests if rewards from adventuring pay better then the rather boring and unimmersive grind of terminal runs.
As it stands now, sites such as the POIs hold little interest
This would further increase player enjoyment of quests if rewards from adventuring pay better then the rather boring and unimmersive grind of terminal runs.
As it stands now, sites such as the POIs hold little interest
Joukahainen
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:15 am
#147
Heavy_Metal_FaKk2 wrote:This is just a thought... have you guys thought of allowing players to place bounties on other players. I'm sure NPCs and Jedi are not the only things that Bounty Hunters hunted in the original trilogy.
The Dev's will NEVER allow players to place bounties on other players. This brings way too much griefing and I agree. It would be fun... but too many people would cry. Other ways that would work have been brought up many times though. I've posted a few times on creating advanced smuggler missions that if failed would place the smuggler on the BH terms. I think this would add more to both the BH and the smuggler professions.
ArmageddonHarbinger
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:17 am
#148
Here are my suggestions for general game mechanics:
The system for Indoor Sites (dungeons) is in need of severe updating. Many of the maps are now a complete mess. Maps should display in levels with only the uncluttered closest area being displayed. All underground sites should also have unique layouts. Far too many now use the same site with different opponents.
Line of sight and terrain should also set more restrictions on what the radar displays. Few things are so annoying as cycling through all the targets in a huge site to find the right one. All the red blips showing up on the radar also spoils surprises.
Make radar severely restricted and linked to LOS when indoors and when encountering terrain obstacles and buildings. If you have no line of sight, then it does not show up on your radar and can’t be targeted.
Make radar severely restricted and linked to LOS when indoors and when encountering terrain obstacles and buildings. If you have no line of sight, then it does not show up on your radar and can’t be targeted.
Players should also no longer be able to fire their weapons through terrain. Other games manages this and SWG should be able to have this natural restriction s well. Getting rid of firing through the ground will allow players to use more tactics as well, especially if radar is linked to LOS.
Random spawning all creatures types based on player level outside sites and cities should also be dropped. Set certain creature types to specific terrain and regions. The farther away you get from civilized areas the tougher they should become. This makes life easier for new players near cities and encourages exploration and not just having terrain act as a set piece.
Random spawning all creatures types based on player level outside sites and cities should also be dropped. Set certain creature types to specific terrain and regions. The farther away you get from civilized areas the tougher they should become. This makes life easier for new players near cities and encourages exploration and not just having terrain act as a set piece.
The core beginner worlds should also have more/similar travel routes to the other and tougher planets. This would prevent horrible choke points like Corellia and the depopulation of worlds like Talus and Rori. Players and trade would spread out more evenly, which again would help new players and reduce pressure on quests and sites. Travelling to the other core worlds would be more rewarding.
One or two neutral player factions should also be introduced as a stand alone publish. (Hutt, trade league or similar) These should have faction perks, equipment and bases just as the current Imp and Reb factions. These should also have an overt for pvp option that would make for three sided action or alliances. Neutral faction members could have Imp or Reb faction standing that would decide if Imps or Rebs could have these players as targets. This way a guild of smugglers and bounty hunters could for example contract or ally themselves with the one of the other factions and later commit acts that change their individual faction standing and sending them over to the other side of the GWC battle line. They could either stay fully neutral or fight one or both of the original player factions as they see fit as long as their faction standing allows this. In example a neutral faction member could do quests from the Reb tree and/or kill Imp NPCs. This would eventually lead to gaining within set limitations, enough faction points to become a valid target or able to target Imps/Rebs as a neutral overt. (Only Rebs/Imps should be able to gain higher faction standing that allows access to most of the quests within their tree. Rebs/Imps should have access to some neutral quests and vice versa)
The placing of new adventure sites should have priority over player city/housing that already exists. If placing a new site crashes with player structures already there then these structures should be automatically redeeded and the structure content kept as part of the special deed and the deed being transferred to the player’s inventory.
Players will be frustrated at loosing a favourite location but the new content benefits everybody in the long run. In my opinion 50% of a planet should be available for player housing and the remaining 50% set aside for current or future adventure sites. If more space is needed the planetary map should be expanded. Harvesters of any kind should have expanded placing rights beyond player housing and factories, but should also be removable in the same fashion by the development team.
Adventure sites should also have a surrounding 1500m blockout zone for player housing and cities. We now have entire cities camping certain sites and this renders them near unusable for opposing faction players wishing to enjoy the site.
Players will be frustrated at loosing a favourite location but the new content benefits everybody in the long run. In my opinion 50% of a planet should be available for player housing and the remaining 50% set aside for current or future adventure sites. If more space is needed the planetary map should be expanded. Harvesters of any kind should have expanded placing rights beyond player housing and factories, but should also be removable in the same fashion by the development team.
Adventure sites should also have a surrounding 1500m blockout zone for player housing and cities. We now have entire cities camping certain sites and this renders them near unusable for opposing faction players wishing to enjoy the site.
ArmageddonHarbinger
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:21 am
#149
Here are my suggestions for the combat balance:
All three stat pools should be made equally important and healable by the medic/doc/CM professions (adding a mind stim). Combat professions should still be more dependent on and able to damage certain stat pools, but making all pools healable via stim would force players to adapt more in combat and not just tailor themselves for sapping mind. Professions with combat skills that don’t affect mind to a great extent would also become more viable and enjoyable. Entertainers should remain as the only professions able to heal mind wounds.
Making all the pools equal by introducing a mind stim forces several changes. Healing should be made more complex by splitting up stim’s in the same manner as wound packs. In examble there should be one stim for action, one for health and one for mind. No stim should affect all three pools. As a high level ability the combat medic could have a heal all pools ability. (replacing his/her heal mind special).
A mixed team that damages all the stat pools would thereby cause problems for a med char as all the pools are dropping but he/she can only heal one of them at regular intervals.
Stim B’s should also require more med skill then just novice med. This would seriously reduce healing potential without having made a larger commitment in skill points.
A mixed team that damages all the stat pools would thereby cause problems for a med char as all the pools are dropping but he/she can only heal one of them at regular intervals.
Stim B’s should also require more med skill then just novice med. This would seriously reduce healing potential without having made a larger commitment in skill points.
The medic profession in it self should also be made more desirable as a stand alone profession by not just increasing the skill needed for stim B’s but also giving them weak cures for states, fire blankets and poison. It is very annoying as a new to mid level char not being able to go hunting on the mid level worlds because you needed a doc to come along. Giving a mild poison cure to medics would also balance out the issues that now plague pvp in the form of the CM’s. Medics with this ability would mean that more players would go for higher medic skills and there would be more folk for healing poison and coming on adventures as healers.
Docs would still have the stronger state cures, single stims and buffs, and CMs would have a heal at range/area, heal several pools and their poison/disease ability.
Docs would still have the stronger state cures, single stims and buffs, and CMs would have a heal at range/area, heal several pools and their poison/disease ability.
Players should also gain permanent HAM as they gain skills. This should be a flat gain per skill point spent so that it’s the number of points that you have spent and not the type of skills that you have that decide how much HAM you get. This would make balancing HAM gain much easier.
Most players now always go buffed and you are totally dependent on being buffed. Roughly one third or less are your original stats and two thirds or more come from buffs.
The strength of buffs should at master levels not be more then one third of the stats of an average master character. This would make players more independent and keep buffs as a very important factor. This would also help GCW issues as hordes of unprepared defenders no longer get wiped as easily by small numbers of prepared attackers. Buffed new chars will also no longer be able to potentially annihilate unbuffed masters. Buffs will become a healthy bonus and advantage and not an absolute prerequisite for higher level chars on their adventures.
Most players now always go buffed and you are totally dependent on being buffed. Roughly one third or less are your original stats and two thirds or more come from buffs.
The strength of buffs should at master levels not be more then one third of the stats of an average master character. This would make players more independent and keep buffs as a very important factor. This would also help GCW issues as hordes of unprepared defenders no longer get wiped as easily by small numbers of prepared attackers. Buffed new chars will also no longer be able to potentially annihilate unbuffed masters. Buffs will become a healthy bonus and advantage and not an absolute prerequisite for higher level chars on their adventures.
Armour should be changed from percentages of damage blocked to set values. This makes it easier to create better weapons, armour and tougher opponents for content added as the game grows. It’s a bit silly that no matter how tough an opponent you introduce at a new adventure site that composite will drop damage by 80% regardless. A set damage point reduction value would allow for greater things to be introduced and there will be no need for silly spawning sites and ridiculous opponents like the DWB content in order to challenge players.
Armour with set values on the other hand require that weapon armour piercing ability can counter this so that some damage is always done. AP should be changed to be a % of the weapons damage potential. An AP 30% 100-300 weapon would do at least 30-90 dmg without a special. A compo chest plate with set reduction of energy 500 points would against the same weapon with a x3 dmg special result in the following damage:
- 250 base damage result x3 special skill is 750 adjusted initial dmg.
- AP 30% means that 225 dmg penetrates unadjusted.
- This leaves 525 (750 – 225) dmg that the armour drops by 500 to 25 dmg.
- Total damage inflicted ends at 225 AP + 25 adjusted for 250 dmg total.
- Shields could affect the total 750 initial damage and food could affect the total 250 end damage resulting in further damage drop and weapon AP only affects the damage that actually hits the armour.
Armour with set values on the other hand require that weapon armour piercing ability can counter this so that some damage is always done. AP should be changed to be a % of the weapons damage potential. An AP 30% 100-300 weapon would do at least 30-90 dmg without a special. A compo chest plate with set reduction of energy 500 points would against the same weapon with a x3 dmg special result in the following damage:
- 250 base damage result x3 special skill is 750 adjusted initial dmg.
- AP 30% means that 225 dmg penetrates unadjusted.
- This leaves 525 (750 – 225) dmg that the armour drops by 500 to 25 dmg.
- Total damage inflicted ends at 225 AP + 25 adjusted for 250 dmg total.
- Shields could affect the total 750 initial damage and food could affect the total 250 end damage resulting in further damage drop and weapon AP only affects the damage that actually hits the armour.
Heavy HAM penalties should continue to be used for armour. This on the other hand should be changed so that you have to fill the prerequisites with your original unbuffed stats. Buffs should not affect what armour you can wear but only be a direct stat bonus. If you have an original secondary stat of 400 and the armour requires 450, then you can’t wear it. Bonuses from buffs are only applied to your values after armour has been subtracted. Armour should also inflict HAM cost on special use and equipping a weapon and shields should also affect your stats as well and have a special cost when specials are used.
This would force players to make more tactical decisions on what equipment they use and a permanent HAM gain for skill points would stop the practice of equipping new chars with uber equipment. Rifles could for example be made heavy in equip cost and pistols low in cost, removing the need for a special damage bonus against riflemen in melee. Their heavy weapons restrict them from using the stronger armour. This would also ensure a varied equipment market since making one uber type product will not cater to new chars and masters with special needs.
In example:
- Full set of armour at total 300 secondary stat cost and 30 special cost
- Rifle at 75 secondary stat cost and 5 special cost
- Shield gen at 75 stat cost and 5 special cost
- Char with secondary stat of 400 + 800 in buffs for a total of 1200
- Total equip cost is 450.
- Stats without buffs is 400. One item cannot be equipped. Here we drop the shield.
- Rifle plus armour is a total stat cost of 375, which results a new total of 25 (400 – 375).
- Buffs are added last and the new total is 825 and the unadjusted cost for each special used is 35 HAM.
This would force players to make more tactical decisions on what equipment they use and a permanent HAM gain for skill points would stop the practice of equipping new chars with uber equipment. Rifles could for example be made heavy in equip cost and pistols low in cost, removing the need for a special damage bonus against riflemen in melee. Their heavy weapons restrict them from using the stronger armour. This would also ensure a varied equipment market since making one uber type product will not cater to new chars and masters with special needs.
In example:
- Full set of armour at total 300 secondary stat cost and 30 special cost
- Rifle at 75 secondary stat cost and 5 special cost
- Shield gen at 75 stat cost and 5 special cost
- Char with secondary stat of 400 + 800 in buffs for a total of 1200
- Total equip cost is 450.
- Stats without buffs is 400. One item cannot be equipped. Here we drop the shield.
- Rifle plus armour is a total stat cost of 375, which results a new total of 25 (400 – 375).
- Buffs are added last and the new total is 825 and the unadjusted cost for each special used is 35 HAM.
The poison ability of the CM also needs serious reworking. Poison should not travel through walls and terrain. Only valid LOS targets should be affectable (See LOS as outlined above). Range should also be restricted to 64m, same as any other ranged weapon.
The system for combat animations should also be changed. These animations could still be quite lengthy but the player should be able to stop it playing by moving or executing another special. The player should only be ‘locked in action’ for the duration of the special and be able to break from any animation going beyond the time the special uses.
The system for combat animations should also be changed. These animations could still be quite lengthy but the player should be able to stop it playing by moving or executing another special. The player should only be ‘locked in action’ for the duration of the special and be able to break from any animation going beyond the time the special uses.
Since the combat balance is already being done, relative time should also be slowed down in combat. This would make it easier to balance speed caps for master professions and powerful enemies. Combat between low level chars and enemies would play much slower and high level combat could be made more tactical since moves would not be spammed at speed cap but could be in response to what your opponents actually do.
Slowing down relative combat time would also leave room for and allow further advancement and adding of special content later.
Slowing down relative combat time would also leave room for and allow further advancement and adding of special content later.
With the combat balance already underway, it would be a good opportunity to expand upon the professions by adding 2-3 more skill tiers to all the professions. New abilities could be added and the big jumps players now make in abilities could be more evenly distributed.
This combined with substantially increasing the xp needed for all skills would mean that players will spend more time on char development and not just fast grind a profession in a weak.
2-3 tiers with new abilities would mean that the players don’t get cheated and a more even distribution of profession bonuses makes balancing easier between professions.
The new tiers would be the room needed for the new abilities players have been asking for. (In example fencer double wielding)
Players now have their total xp in their skills. With a change like this they would after implementation get skills as allowed by their current xp and loose a number of their skills. But they now will have the ability to take their chars to a higher level by regaining their previous skills at higher cost and finally getting the new tiers!
Character development would become more rewarding, time consuming and a goal in it self. Not just fiddling with templates and getting your masters in a month.
Quests from the suggested neutral tree could be required in order to gain many skills. This would give both combat and non-combat professions additional incentive to experience adventure through profession specific quest branches. Imp or reb branch quests could give faction dependent profession bonuses.
This combined with substantially increasing the xp needed for all skills would mean that players will spend more time on char development and not just fast grind a profession in a weak.
2-3 tiers with new abilities would mean that the players don’t get cheated and a more even distribution of profession bonuses makes balancing easier between professions.
The new tiers would be the room needed for the new abilities players have been asking for. (In example fencer double wielding)
Players now have their total xp in their skills. With a change like this they would after implementation get skills as allowed by their current xp and loose a number of their skills. But they now will have the ability to take their chars to a higher level by regaining their previous skills at higher cost and finally getting the new tiers!
Character development would become more rewarding, time consuming and a goal in it self. Not just fiddling with templates and getting your masters in a month.
Quests from the suggested neutral tree could be required in order to gain many skills. This would give both combat and non-combat professions additional incentive to experience adventure through profession specific quest branches. Imp or reb branch quests could give faction dependent profession bonuses.
Combat professions should also be skill tier balanced. A unarmed 4 and 2-2-2-2 TKA should be balanced with a polearm 4 and 2-2-2-2 Pikeman. Now the professions are mostly balanced at master level. Expanding the professions, evenly distributing abilities and increasing skill xp cost would make this easier.
ArmageddonHarbinger
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:23 am
#150
Here are my suggestions for the GCW:
A lot of direction and purpose could be added to the GCW by implementation of the opposed quests as discussed earlier.
A large number of adventure sites designed for these quests with varied themes and goals would make great battlefields for the players.
Continually expanding quest trees would also direct the most powerful of the opposing faction players against each other with new goals and purposes.
These sites should be designed in such a manner that they make use of the special abilities of the different professions and thereby giving purpose to all players in the GCW beyond just being a good set of abilities to have in a balanced combat team.
The TEF system should also be removed and PvP restricted to overt players. Being killed and cloned should inflict loss of overt status and a time restriction on when you can chose or be forced into overt status again. This would take players out of the battle for a set duration (15 mins or so) and make battles actually winnable and not a constant clone war. Engaging in combat or committing hostile action against opposed faction NPC’s should also require declaring overt status. Scanners and NPC searches should still be able to overt players and Jedi and smugglers should have abilities that enable them to conceal team members’ overt status from NPCs, and thereby making it possible for overt players to travel around unmolested. Overt players should always be able to see other players as overt, but such a Jedi/Smuggler ability should hide overt players from covert players.
A large number of adventure sites designed for these quests with varied themes and goals would make great battlefields for the players.
Continually expanding quest trees would also direct the most powerful of the opposing faction players against each other with new goals and purposes.
These sites should be designed in such a manner that they make use of the special abilities of the different professions and thereby giving purpose to all players in the GCW beyond just being a good set of abilities to have in a balanced combat team.
The TEF system should also be removed and PvP restricted to overt players. Being killed and cloned should inflict loss of overt status and a time restriction on when you can chose or be forced into overt status again. This would take players out of the battle for a set duration (15 mins or so) and make battles actually winnable and not a constant clone war. Engaging in combat or committing hostile action against opposed faction NPC’s should also require declaring overt status. Scanners and NPC searches should still be able to overt players and Jedi and smugglers should have abilities that enable them to conceal team members’ overt status from NPCs, and thereby making it possible for overt players to travel around unmolested. Overt players should always be able to see other players as overt, but such a Jedi/Smuggler ability should hide overt players from covert players.
Faction Bases should become much more formidable installations. These are now being assaulted by huge teams of enemy players and possibly at hours when few defenders are around. Bases should have shields that can be raised for eight hours making them near impossible to destroy but also an expanded vulnerable period of 16 hours for the remainder of a 24 hour period set at times chosen by players with admin rights. Changing this period around should only be possible to do on a weekly basis to avoid exploiting.
The number of defences should also be increased for the bases and the turrets made tougher to kill. A base could for instance have a set number of automated turrets and armoured wall cannons manned by NPCs. These wall cannons would be mountable by players if they choose to and the armour of the cannon giving additional protection to the player/NPC gunner. The automated turrets would be the strongest defences and possible to destroy and replace as before. Wall canons should be near indestructible and the gunner being the damageable weak point. As long as there are NPCs and players to man them, then they keep firing. A base should also hold a large range of medical NPCs that heal defenders effectively. This would allow a small number of defenders to fight a large attacking force. This combined with an expanded vulnerability period would make the bases a tougher challenge for attackers but also more rewarding to attack since if they beat the defenders they will be able to destroy the base.
Well that was my two bits on the game that I love and have high hopes for.
Thx to those that read the entire post and give comments.
I sure hope this gets a discussion started : )
Rrowann
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:26 am
#151
Can there be some sort of Image Designer Force Skill to buy that lets us ID outside a tent and still get tent benefits, pretty please?
Since there are none of these Force Skill Blocks for Entertainers, and I suppose without worrying about the mad amounts of art (currently in development) that would be necessitated by trying to add a new dance or new instruments it would be assumed Musicians and Dancers could have their buffing ability tweaked, it's kind of like getting your buff-ability tweaked (you can do Stat Migrations in the middle of a field just by sensing a person's inner workings and manipulating them around -- ooh that sounds so Dark Side! :emperor
.
Thanks much.
Elitesolider
Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:41 am
#152
Concepts for Planets
Purpose:
- Increase the size of the planets
What kind of changes:
- Increase the size of Planets by:
- Look at planets as a pie:
- One global map would be equal to one piece of the pie
- Each global map is a zone that connects to another global map on the same planet
- Each zone will represent another section of the planet
- One global map would be equal to one piece of the pie
- Add addition Global Map size zones to all planets
- Each planet will have X number of zones to represent it size
- Bigger size planets will have more zones
- Small planets will have less zones
- Bigger size planets will have more zones
- These additional zone can house more dungeons, NPC towns, and others.
- Possibly redsign the size and look of current dungeons and NPC towns (Optional )
- Move dungeons and NPC Towns to other sections of the planet (Optional )
- Possibly redsign the size and look of current dungeons and NPC towns (Optional )
- Look at planets as a pie:
Special Notes:
- Loading to these planets could be done by shuttleport, spaceport, or just by touching any boundry of the global map.
- This will allow players to spread out their towns more distance.
- You could possibly create more features and dungeons in additionwith this concept.
Pros & Cons
Pros:
- Worlds would be more spread out and this would encourage players to spread out.
- In-game cities could move out and revamped to have better features, new looks, additional structures added to them.
- Additional dungeons and other structures could be added on additional sections of the planet.
Cons:
- New sections of a planet could suffer from lag.
- These features may never come out for a while.
- Addtional problems like loading and zoning to new sections of the planets
WookieRebel
Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:42 am
#153
There should be a poll option for these Forums. This would make conducting polls much easier. MEO forums have it, why shouldn't we?
ArkonPhoenix
Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:01 am
#154
You should get some decent CH for you pet attacking a Lair or Base. Period.
Matsubaa
Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:31 pm
#155
As we approach Publish 10 I think we shoudl start thinking about what we would like to see as potential force sensitive enhancements. These are the skills we will have to quest for and accumulate in order to unlock our Jedi slot under the new system.
For Creature Handlers I'd like to see a CL Bonus applied. As we become more in tune with the Force we should become more able to communicate with and control the more difficult creatures.
In particular this is a good opportunity for the Devs to increase the rancors' power. Rancors are supposedly, withone exception,only tameable through use of the Force. If the rancors are rebuilt with the strength they should have, their CL will undoubtedly need to increase. Our limited CL would then make rancors useless and untameable unless there was some way to gain a bonus to this stat. Through the new Force Sensitive system we would gain both a roleplay reason for being able to control rancors as well as a new level of power and incentive to actually participate in the new FSCS without necessarily becoming Jedi.
This will make rancors relatively rare pets but do we want to see them powerful and rare or useless and common? Or worse, useless and rare?
Clamor
Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:39 pm
#156
is there any plan on getting a way to increase Hutt faction? I would very much love to do Jabba's TP again, completed it along time ago, went to re-do the TP after the revamp and after clearing my history for it, was unable to do the TP again because my HUTT faction is too low. CSR in game told me there is NO WAY to get Hutt faction other than doing the Jabba TP (which I can't do).