Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-12: Combat Roles; Rifleman

PyscoJuggalo
Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:12 am
#131

Way to take me out of context Xytroncore, your the one who wants this to be like real life not me.


If I wanted real life combat I'd go a block south of myold apartmentto 31'st and Halsted at around 1:00 AM. Thanks, butI prefer the game to real life.





I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
Waste93
Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:05 am
#132






Omewiew wrote:


***Line Of Sight****


Rifleman should be able to use the enviorment around him as cover. As long as he can see the target he should be able to shoot the target, provided he is in range. It will be nice to see players shoot from bunkers, behind rocks or using a the side of a house as cover. Also it would help if we were on top of a hill and could see the enemy over a wall, be able to shoot at the enimey.





Line of Sight is a major issue in this game. Shooting thru hills is ok. But I can't hit some guy in a fortification even though I'm much higher than him and looking over the wall? MOBs detect me thru walls/hills/etc?


Adding LoS would be great. It would add a tactical element that is sorely missing at this point. I want to be able to use the terrain to mask my approach or to aid me in breaking contact. But since for the most part there is no LoS, just range this tactical element is sorely lacking.


Just think of the fun. Crawling thru one of the gulleys on Corellia to approach your target unaware. Find your opponent is tougher than you expected and using the terrain to get away. Moving behind hills, entering gullies, etc.


LoS seems to work pretty well where buildings are concerned, but the terrain itself seems to have little to no effect.


The simple rule should be, if you can see it you can shoot it (and it can shoot you). If you can't see it you can't shoot it. No more LoS to a 30foot Piket being blocked by a thin 10foot tree. The Piket is both taller and wider than a tree. But I still get a "can not see target" message. Yet I have no problems at all seeing it. Its right there in front of me.



Colonel Waste - The Wookiee Crusader
Nef01
Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:27 am
#133

This class should have no melee defence, they are long range fighters, they should never be in close fighting, and if they are , they should pay the price, but at the same time, they should have the best ranged defence of all the classes.
JediGohan
Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:55 pm
#134

Then they should make the range even further so we can at least put a couple of good shots before thousands of TKA come in and take us out in ONE hit.



I was thinking that Riflemen should get some sort of camouflage ability. Sort of like mask scent except it would only be for PvP so what you would do is turn on this Camouflage ability and your enemy would not be able to see you on the radar or if they were facing your direction they wouldnt see that little thing that comes on when your being attacked.



Dont cap our speed.


Increase our damage. We need guns to be able to contend with commando and whatnot.


We also need more defense vs dizzy because it's impossible to solo by yourself.



Oh and fix the **edit** Mind cost for our attacks. Head Shot 3 does more dmg to our mind than it does to our enemies whats up with that?


Also whats the point of Startle Shot, and Surprise Shot? The only thing I notice about Surprise Shot is that you see no blaster fire from your gun, but I have no use for Startle Shot.


And as said before, give us better titles. Hunter is already a title for Scout, I dont want people thinking im just some scout with that title why not something like Assassin? That would be cool





pwnd
\
ò


Xian-Thariuz
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:28 am
#135

Others pretty much have it covered so I'll just list points I'd like considered.

Skill : A Rifleman should be able to cover people, at novice rifleman a skill with a better affect than Suppression Fire should be gained to drop enemies down.

Distance : I would like to see the distance for maximum damaged increased, since 100m seems to be a universal limit 90m to 100m should be maximum damage, I would like a little farther than that but 100m will do, a blaster shouldn't be able to hit me when I'm at sniping range.

Damage : give us a little more damage, The T21 doesnt really cut it for what a rifle should do, one shot kills and all; well one shot won't happen but I would have much rathered a slower speed per shot for much much higher damage.

Drain : Although I haven't yet had a problem with it, I've heard some concerns about mind drain when using a rifle, and yes some T21 can take 100+ mind points to use and do as low as 100- mind points in damage, 100 for 100 seems like a recipe for disaster.
Fishtank
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:29 am
#136

In terms of us being able to do damageat close range with a different rifle...why should we have it all? we spend the sameskill points as a melee class...what do they have for long range?I think we should be focused on long range combat and get smoked when someone gets in under 10m. We should be able to defend ourselves at 10m-30m and excel at everything over 40m. But under 10 we should be toast. There are plenty of other skill points to devote to mastering another meleeproffession or pistols or whatever.


I am all for improvement in other areas such asham specific targeting andconcealment, but the dev's won't give everything to us without us giving something up. And I think that it should be close range combat that gets nerfed.


If we can try to decide on some of our current advantages to get nerfed, then maybe we can get the other advantages we all seem to be after, and make our riflemen a bit more unique. (plus maybe all the "leet" power-gamer proffession jumpers will leave us alone, if they can't have it all.)
PsychoticChipmunk
Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:10 pm
#137






Fishtank wrote:

In terms of us being able to do damageat close range with a different rifle...why should we have it all? we spend the sameskill points as a melee class...what do they have for long range?I think we should be focused on long range combat and get smoked when someone gets in under 10m. We should be able to defend ourselves at 10m-30m and excel at everything over 40m. But under 10 we should be toast. There are plenty of other skill points to devote to mastering another meleeproffession or pistols or whatever.





Actually that is what I envision with the assault rifle, and assume the same for others. Basically think of it as a T-21 meshed with a spraystick. Or actually the T-21 works just fine as the assault rifle just needs to have the range mods altered as well asdamage and all that good stuff. What we are really asking for with this request is a "sniper rifle" that exemplifies the sniping half of the tree and is more or less useless with the gunner part. That way we can choose to go from sniper to gunner (Of course swapping the rifles to be great at closer ranges would have a penalty. Maybe like7 seconds to switch to the new gun.) instead of working somewhat well at both roles. The skills are fine we just need better weapons. Well that and to get our defenses fixed. Block is broken and melee defense is so high it must be a bug. And if not a bug then it should just be lowered, I think we're even higher then pikemen for goodness sake.



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0000000000000000000000000000000000Decorator, Mayor, Rifleman, Bothan0000000
KozakMamalyga
Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:08 pm
#138

Hi guys I am mostly mastered my rifleman (300K more exp). I like it as is, except 1 thing which looks very strange for me. Who is sniper - person who makes VERY high damage at the range to a single target! In SWG even pistoleer with his FAN shot is more sniper than rifleman. Rifleman instead has useless Startle shot 2. Why don't make it similar to FAN shot?

I like this idea, what about you?
Maulk
Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:12 pm
#139

What do melee have at long range? ever been in pvp with a melee and been kd'd at 30m? yeeeeeah a melee class has HALF the range of the "sniper" class. you know how easy it is to cover 30m? wantto nerf our speedwant us to suck at close range? fine fix ranges melee have a max range of 10m cm's anything thrown say 30m leave the long range to the long range professions. not that 64m is long range.
Sturngard_Blastshield
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:27 pm
#140

What defines theRiflemanrole in combat?


What basic combat elements should they possess?


As currently stated before, they start out as basic infantry men when novice, but evolve into the long rage sniper and heavy gunner. I dont believe noice rifleman should should assume the role as the "common infantry soldier" at any time because "Rifleman is a advanced profession.The "common infantry soldier"roleshould be assumed by played by those whom chose to become master marksmanto save points topick up other non combat professions. Master Marksman are infantry with Rifles and Machine guns and a backup pistol as their backup sidearm.


To this end, the Rifleman, being and advanced profession is for those peoplewho become exceptional with a rifle and inthe military, those people are put in the snipertraining program and NOT in the machine gunner or heavy gunner programs.


Clearly the Riflemanis a person working towardsbecoming a master sniper and should be reorientated to reflect that. The talk of heavy gunner and suppresion fire is unquestionably more related tothe carbine, who is the sub-machine gun carringcousin to the machine gun carrying heavy gunner.


What offensive abilities?


The Riflman needs to have the hightest possible amount of damageoutput per shot to emulate the real world concept of "1 shot, 1kill) To accomplish this, the riffleman needs to be the slowest possible firing class in game. Currenty the riflemans mans weapons fire at a acceptionally fast speed. The Riflemansdamage per shot should be higher that any weapon in the star. People should suffer more damage from a shot to the head than being electricuted by a bounty hunter orengulfed in flames by a commando.Even rocket launcher are not intended to be fired at individuals, butvehicles, so when they are it is blast damage thatthe target should suffer which should be less than theStarwars equivilant of a bullet to the head. So,like everyone who wants the profession they play to be the most powerful,why am I different, because I suggest the drawback/balance of having the most powerful shot in the game is the the riflemans firespeed should be well above 10 or 15, as well as, ungodly penalties forfireing at targets on the move.


What defensive abilities?


If we are snipers, fire in prone possition,and we fire 1 shot every 10-15 seconds, lets us hide our red dot on the radar.


What unique abilities?


(conceptual idea, nothing I am passionate about like above) As snipers let us target specific parts of the body. Depending on the corrasponding Ham bar, bleed that bar. How about a shot that targets a part of the body and the corrisponding piece of armor takes signifigant damages.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Let us snipe unseen from far away. Since we are not close to the enemy like our mid range carbineer cousins, our short rangepistoleer cousins, and our close range melee cousins, we should not be able to wear full sets of composite armor without additional penalties to that which is already in place. It is unrealistic for a sniper to fight hiden or concealed in composite armor.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


As my views previously stated, I logially think Riflman/Snipers should be able to conceal themselves while wearing armor. This would mean there are possible dependencies that could be created with the tailor rather than with an armorsmith. Heck, the tailor could use it


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


The relationship should be we are extremely vulnerable to all melee, close, and medium range combat in exchange for our abilities to actually conceal our selfs and actually snipe things. The riflman are the commando and bounty hunter killers. Commandos and bounty hunters are the everything else killers. Rifleman/Snipers are experts in the open field, carbineers (submachinegunners) and pistoleers dominate in urban/city environments, and the melee classes dominate in closed environments like buldings, hallways, and rooms.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


The no armor wearing,hiding/concealing, will die in one hit, "One shot one kill", highest damageoutput per shot, and slowest firing guys/gals in the game.


There is just no logical reseaon that a shot to the head would kill someone slower than setting them on fire or electricuting them





Sturngard Blastshield
TFO Military Commander
Executor of TBF‘s Will


ITOAO
Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:53 am
#141

Dont know if this is the right place to bring this up but... Whats with the beam rifle ? It is classified as a rifle yet when i equip it it says i am not qualified to use it. I dont seea qualification anywhere.



VODO FALLS RESIDENT
Dantooine
Proud Winner- Nym's Scavenger hunt.
Only City with an X-wing fighter
AND a fallen AT-AT.



ITOAO
Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:58 am
#142

I have been also reading about the whole machine gunner thing. I don't think machine gunner when i think rifleman. I see that as more if a carbine thing. We should be DEAD close up. Unless we pursue another profession to make up for that.



VODO FALLS RESIDENT
Dantooine
Proud Winner- Nym's Scavenger hunt.
Only City with an X-wing fighter
AND a fallen AT-AT.



Snowloc
Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:10 pm
#143

Ok I have thought on this and did some research. People have brought up that rifleman are machine gunners and sniper. When I here machine gunner I think of a guy with a 50 caliber machine gun holding a position with supperation fire. When I hear sniper I think of a lone person with a high caliber single shot rifle with a powerful scope adjusted to give max accaurcy at max range. As you notice the weapons I speak of are two different things.



1. What defines a rifleman in combat?


I think of a rifleman as a sniper. He looks for leaders and other trouble makers from concealment and cover. ( There is a difference between cover and concealment. ) A rifleman then takes the target out.


2. What basic combat elements should they possess?


The rifleman needs to have a good rifle, the ability to find cover, and capability to conceal them selfs from detection. Rifleman also need to move with stealth.


3. What offensive abilities?


The rifleman needs the ablity to do great amount of damage in a short amount of time. Reason for this is time is the enemy for a sniper. It allows an enemy to find and take out the sniper.


4. What defensive abilities?


The rifleman need the ability to find cover and consealment. Cover is how much of you is out in the open. Consealment is how well you blend in with your enviroment. These are need as cover makes it harder to hit and consealment makes you harder to see.( reduction in damage taken and reduction to hit)


5. What unique abilities?


The riflman ( sniper ) usually hit the head or heart of the victim. The ability to not show up on radar if covered and concealed. Plus not automatically be targeted on the first shot.


6. Should add what abilities or asset in a group combat?


With the above the sniper can help take down key personal in group combat.


7. How could/should they interact with other professions?


The rifleman would need the weaponsmith and rangers plus the other support classes. weaponsmiths for good rifles, ranger for the camo that they make. The other support class are just as easy to figure out.


8. What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


This is already covered with the above.


9. What should be thier unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


The same role snipers in past wars to take out key personnel.



As you can see I do not see the rifleman as a mechine gunner that should be left to the cabineers. Marksman is your grunt range and brawler is you grunt close combat. Those two skills togetherwould equal the average soldier in any army. Give the cabineer the counter sniper abilitys and give rifleman the ability to use the ranger camo skill ( not the ability to make the camo).


I know alot of the above abilities are in the riflemans profession. I just gave my apinion and how I saw the class.


thank you


Snowloc



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