Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
Thunderheart, I do not envy you. In reading your posts and knowing you were a player before you got this job (and a promotion) I am pretty sure this must have been very hard for you to post. Your response to your bosses was probably something like "YOU WANT ME TO TELL THEM THIS? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR FREAKIN' MINDS? THEY ARE GOING TO GO BESERK !!!!!"
I also understand that you are just doing your job and can only tell us what they tell you, and what the allow you to tell us. I could not do your job (I was actually thinking about sending you my resume) I would be fired within the week for telling someone they were insane.
I am looking forward to JTL. I am not canceling my accounts. But I have to play devils advocate here.
Thunderheart wrote:
Thorolfsk wrote:
Thunderheart can you please respond to these questions:
- Can the development team please provide the community with a valid reason for pushing back the combat revamp?
The most important reasons are:
- I understand that there are many people against having Jedi in the game, but it is part of the game. En masse, the community was adamant that we change the holocron/professions system and that time is now. Given the effort that went in to publish 9, we needed to clear the schedule and make room for publish 10 to do a better job on it. The Jedi system needed to be changed because it was effecting everyone. That is why it had the shceudling priority that it has.
The Jedi system needed to be changed, yes. But that was not the reason people were grinding Jedi. The people who unlocked first were the people who really wanted Jedi (not the people who truely deserve to be Jedi) the Power Gamers. Everyone after that unlocked not necessarilly because they wanted Jedi as much as that that was the only thing worth doing in the game. Why? Because Combat is unbalanced and the GCW is worthless and non existant. Even if the Combat wasn't touched (Except CM's of course, that definitlly needed fixing) and just the GCW was fixed to work atleast a little, and make it worth while then alot if not all of the people who have unlocked over the last few months (including myself) would not have. I was perfectlly happy being a Colonel in the Empire, only problem was there is no Empire, there is no Rebellion, all there was to achieve was Jedi in the game. So that is what we did.
Now the Jedi Revamp was done, and will be finished in Publish 10, but it has put yet another nail in the coffin of the GCW and Normal Professions. The Hunted have become the Hunters. Now, instead of people Hunting Jedi to keep the population in check, as was originally intended, the Jedi are now Hunting all the normal professions for their FRS. No one wants to go overt any more, no one wants to PvP (except Jedi) because wheather it is just hanging out in a cityor going on a Raid the Jedi will nowshow up when ever they hear about itto kill you because you are now their only grinding tool. They need to kill you all day every day just to advance in the new FRS. So most are not even bothering to go overt so they are not Jedi Fodder.
- The Combat Balance is a huge publish and will have as much code in it as a console game. Its huge. We need the expertise and the manpower to do it correctly
I understand that even the smallest change in something of this magnitude is a big deal, and the Combat Rebalance and the GCW Revamp must be astronomical. But that doesn't explain why it is not the top prority in a game that is supposed to be based on the GCW and PvP. It keeps getting pushed back for things that we could live without if the GCW and PvP were working and worth doing. There is no long term purpose for the game right now, and the DWB, Corellian Corvette, Racetracks, JTL, or any other fluff on the surface that is put in will not change that. The core game is "FUBAR" and should be and should have always been the first priority.
With all due respect, why release a expansion pack before fixing problems already existing within the game?
I would start with "With all due respect", but you used it =P, soin short and with respect, this isn't "just an expansion". This is Space. Space is something that everyone wanted at launch and Space is needed to create the Star Wars experience.
Yes, Space is a big part of Star Wars, but it is not what the game is or was originally based on, which was the GCW. Fixing the GCW would also create a more Star Wars Experience, giving it meaning and purpose, that should be the priority. Like I said I am looking forward to JTL, but I can play X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter if I want that experience right now, but I can not be involved in the GCW in SWG because it is pointless and has no meaning or purpose.
The other side of that is that JTL has been in production since January. We can't delaysix and half months of work for something that really makes Star Wars what it is.
I understand that alot of money and time has been put into JTL by SOE and Lucas Arts. But this statement is a slap in the face to all of the people (including myself) who have been playing since launch, waiting for it to have some meaning and purpose. We have been waiting a year for that, but it has once again been put on the back burner until the latest fluff has been added. If JTL was what really makes Star Wars what it is, then is should have and would have been in the game at launch. It adds to the Star Wars Experience, no doubt, but it is not necessary. Like I said, if it was necessary then it would have been in the game from the begining. The Core game was developed arround the GCW, not Space, and even in Space there will (hopefully) be a GCW as well, so it is starting with a problem already, because the GCW has not been fixed first.
Assuming theexpansion will have a few problems, wouldn't that just create alarger backlog for you guys, and take time away from other problems?
Those integration problems are being accounted for and that's why we needed more scheduling time. Publish 10 and taking the extra time to make integration with the ground game smoother is the time from the schedule that was needed. All in all, they were very difficult decisions to make.
I am sure that all of the Dev's are doing their best to make JTL the best it can be, but we all know there are going to be problems, no matter how much time is put into it. It is a fact of life. Not every variable can be accounted for in testing. Every publish and patch that has gone in since launch is proof of that. There will be problems that need to be addressed along with all of the continued problems that there are now. That is the point.
The Devs have fixed alot of problems, but there are still alot of them that have yet to be fixed and keep being put off, adding new things to the game before fixing the current problems is only making things worse. It doesn't matter how cool and pretty a house is, if the foundation is crappy, it is not going to last long. The foundation of the game needs to be fixed, so it can last a long time to come.
Seriously, every aspect of the game is broken.
- Professions
- Combat
- GCW
- Jedi
- Loot tables
Gam was pushed way to earlier. I can not even comprehend how JTL is being pushed out the door when the base core of the game itself does not work. It is broke on the ground, it will be broke in space. I for one never planned on getting JTL in the first place. I thought it would not be out until THIS game was fixed first.
Seriously TH you need to let the suits that are running this show take a look at this thread. Not just the PR team.
I am sure everyone right now is asking themselves why they are paying for a game that is broken. I am sure alot of the game review companies out there would love to get insight on what is really going on.
What happens when JTL comes out? There is going to be bugs, everyone knows that. That will be 1st priority because it will get new subscribers that don't read reviews. Cool but then what happens to the people that been here for so long, the MAIN MONEY PITS that are keeping this game afloat.
Seriously. Look when the game first came out at all the subscriptions. Now look... give it 2 months then look again. Sinking faster then a fat broad in quicksand.
You say you will be working with the community to fix things for us as if it was a way of saying sorry for the delay, we will fix these things for you.
Sorry but this is supposed to be an ongoing thing when it comes to MMORPG developments. Not something that happens when a update gets delayed as compensation.
Speaking of which, compensation? Do we get any? Do current subscribers get free copies of JTL? A free month or two? I am sure if everyone got a a free month of play for the months that the rebalance is delay, it would come out quicker then you can imagine.
I can tell you right now that alot of the "team" that is working on this game would NOT want it tobe on their resume. I for sure would not.
Message Edited by ratlif on 07-16-2004 02:54 PM
Message Edited by ratlif on 07-16-2004 02:57 PM
Aracon wrote:
In fact, they're more responsible for the crap of this game than this Development team was. In fact, it's the company that made the Devs push this game out before it was ready and it is still the company that's making the Devs push JTL out before they fix this game.
I'm sorry, but I think that's simply not true.
This game was in development for almost four years before launch - FOUR YEARS!
We can talk about how complex coding is, blah blah.
Four years.
Let's see, four years is :
* A Presidential Term
* The length of time the entirety of "World War II" - you know, real life? - was fought and won in that time
* Twice as long as it takes Disney to build a new themepark, from ground-breaking to opening day
* Enough time to shoot roughly 16 feature-length films, or for at least a half-dozen films to go from green-light to final cut
* Long enough for a toddler who was born on the first day to have learned to walk, talk, and go potty all by themselves by the end of the four years
We could go on...I am so tired of hearing how hard it is to code a game. The gaming industry, in particular MMO's, are notorious for this - but in this case I think it was everything simply left to the last minute while the Devs do things like spend the afternoon of their workday playing in the "sandbox" pitting krayts against kimos to settle an office bet as to which one was better.
Really...YOU COULD HAVE GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE in less time than it took them to cobble this game together.
You'd really think we could expect better than that, but it seems like it's just gotten much, much worse.
D.
Message Edited by trabickle on 07-16-2004 01:58 PM
Message Edited by trabickle on 07-16-2004 02:00 PM
Fred_Skinner wrote:
Shiva420 wrote:
Geral_Corasjo wrote:
AMAZING
SIMPLY AMAZING
a hypocrite in action!
31 pages of simple nonsense, hate crap
Tell me please, I am fascinated by human nature....Why do you rant? Does it make you feel any better? Do you think you accomplished something? Did you make a difference here?
ahem... read above... *cough* hypocrite*cough*
i notice you are registered feb./24/04... did you happen to notice that almost 85%+ of people who are saying the are going to quit have beenplayingPAYING for more then 9 months... if you had seen everything they have you would feel the same way.. youll see keep playing and paying... im sure in 6 months youll still think it was $ well spent... psh
Speak for yourself, not him, or me. I'm not leaving and you better take me off that "complaint counter", not all posts here are negitive. You can note MY registered date and post count. He is right, many of you are throwing a tantrum when all they want to do is NOT make the mistake they did a year ago with JtLS. Is this cambat rebuild really that much more important then having the spaceships added? NO it is NOT. Sorry. That is the hard, cold truth.
I know something about schedualing of a big software project and sometimes you can throw all the programers in NASA and JPL with all the capital of theNational GDP behind it and actually make it take LONGER to do. This is the right aproach, had to be done.
In your opinion the combat balance isn't that important, however as far as this thread goes I reckon that's an opinion that is only shared with some 5% -10% of people here.
Logic dictates that if the majority aren't happy with something then there must be something seriously flawed somewhere.
I too have been here since launch, I too am really looking forward to JTL. I don't PvP, infact I really don't do much PvE either but it's clear to see that if 90% of the players stop playing because of what is going to happen then the other 10% won't have a game to play either as SOE won't be able to afford to keep us here.
Of course in reality we know the majority of people will still carry on playing though maybe not as much, somewill not play and carry on payingand most of those that do cancel will come back when JTL launches. SOE know this based on other games and how they have gone, they only have to see the trend in EQ to which they have complete access to judge what will happen.
SOE know they will make money from Jedi and JTL in the long run so that is why they are currently the highest priority.
It's a shame this is happening, I don't agree with it, I was there shouting with the majority of Beta testers bacj in June 03 saying that the game was no where near ready to be released and needed at least another 6 months work on it yet they still went ahead and a year later are still paying for that terrible mistake.
Sure things have improved vastly since launch, I just have a terrible feeling that come October it will be June 03 all over again, there will be a few months of fixing JTL and then it will be time to add new content before they fix other bugs etc etc etc.
Heck, I wouldn't be suprised if they release their next expansion as a GCW and CBrevamp all in one and ask us to pay for it 
Still, i'm gonna hang around and hope that not too many of my friends leave, on average these days only 20 out of my 180 or so friends in my friends list are online. That doesn't bode well IMHO.