Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Force Ranking System Feedback...

nolan007
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:15 am
#118



JustG:



A couple of thoughts from playingquite a lotlast night:




  • What will preventfairly organized and determined playersfrom throwing the FRS in their favor (or buddies favor)?


  • What will prevent a group of players from black-balling people they do not like for one reason oranother?This new system might turn into the fraternity ranking system?



  • The FRS number may beVERY confusing to players. Many players may be confused with the FRS numbers such as: What does 1103 mean? Is that good? I'm at 1114 nowis that better? Or is that worse? Perhaps that rating should be evaluted so that it's meaning is more clear to players?








~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Star Wars vs. Star Wars Galaxies
(Revised 07.07.05)

( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

IdrisTycho
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:15 am
#119

How about adding a feature to the consider command that will tell ranked jedi the FRS exp lost/gained for losing or winning the battle. Also maybe the pvp rank lost or gained could be shown. For example:


/consider DarthBumbleBee


DarthBumbleBee looks like an even match.

You will gain 200 FRS points and 20 PVP points for a win.

You will lose 200 FRS points and 20 PVP points for a loss.



This might help us do the testing on this kind of stuff faster. Since it will mean we can report anomalies in gains and losses without actually fighting eachother for 20-30 minutes. Also, can the /consider "star thingies" that change color (red, yellow, white, blue, green) update based on the rank disparity. That way if a Light Jedi of rank 0 runs into a Dark Jediof rank 9with no title displayed, he will get some sort of idea what he is up against.

PuntaSur
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:33 am
#120






RedDragon133 wrote:
It might be a very much better idea to make two new factions, light and dark.
From what I saw today on TC2 normal roleplay wont be possible anymore. hordes of players, in theed rebels, somewhere else imperials for sure, ganking and clonecamping if possible any player of opposing faction.
I believe, if this goes live like this, SWG will became sort of shooter game. log in kill, get killed, log out.

so many good thoughts in this publsh, it has the capasity to be great.

why should "normal" player be allowed to participate in a conflict between Jedi and Jedi? Believe me, this is going to be bad the way it is. On TC2 mainly BHs can group with the Jedi and rampage throug cities, but what when CM, rifler and all the other will join in?

pls go, take a look tonight in theed and plsthink it over again.

yours




It has already been shown that BHs will have the ability (due to game mechanics) to completely camp all shrines and clone centers. This is pure insanity in a PvP design, and only enables and encourages griefing!


There should be a "cooldown" timer after dying. Make it 5 minutes to 30 minutes (test it, tune it, and get it in THIS game) where after dying a player can't engage in PvP for that period of time. The player can't attack others or be attacked by others for this period of time. Benefits from this? It stops the conveyor belt of returning combatants during a large battle and forces only the "champions" to remain engaged and not worry about recently defeated enemy participants from returning quickly and "flanking". It also protects those recently killed from the clone camping griefers and provides a means for them to at least finish loading into the game again and a shot at escaping to recover and prepare to defend themselves.





PuntaSur - MBH/Ranger and Jedi of 2003
EMC2

Ackehece
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:47 am
#121




This still need to be balanced. I need feedback to make those changes. FRS Jedi gain experience by killing players from the opposing faction. The amount of experience gained is based on the power level of the target (non-Jedi aren’t worth as much as Jedi). FRS Jedi loose experience by being killed by players from the other faction. The more powerful the Jedi is in relation to the player that made the kill, the more experience is lost.


The penalty is harsh - it probably should be lowered for the jedi padawan who are trying to get into the FRS. I know many who are floundering with negative xp totals... Otoh losing 1000 FR points seems fair if you loss to a BH or a Jedi who is not in the FRS (saw that happen as well) - If you snooze you lose!


The feedback I need is how easy/difficult is it to gain FR experience. Are you able to make enough to qualify a new rank? Can you maintain the experience that you earn, or is it lost too quickly in pvp, etc.


After two days of solid pvp (where all my targets run away!) I have finally attained enough FR experience to challange for a rank - 2 days is not that bad (Only fought opposite faction and BH'rs though) probably could have do it faster kiling my own kind in the enclave.


Do the daily experience costs and costs for missing a vote seem reasonable? Keep in mind that TC is running the maintenance cycle at an accelerated rate. The true value is once per day.


Hard to be there for all the votes at the acclerated rates (we do have to sleep ^_^) But it will allow me to challange more often this way.


If you lose too much experience, you lose a rank. Do the thresholds feel okay? Is the demotion setting up everything properly (your skills are correct, the enclave shows you at the proper rank)? Does the demotion work even if you aren’t on-line?


Stil rank zero so no way to test this... today I shall rise.


The experience mechanics, including the demotions, are designed to work anywhere in the game. Test this out by doing battle on a server different from the where the Enclave exists. It is possible that certain problems could arise only if the player is not on the same server as the Enclave.


On the different planets i have received messages saying i have qualified to challange for rank and i have seen my point total rise on every planet i have fought on.


FRS Advancement Mechanics –


The promotion/demotion systems need a good workout. Are you getting the skills that you should get? Is the data on your character staying in sync with the enclave data (the rank you have as shown by your FR skill tree should equate to your position as displayed with /showCouncilRank).


so far no real advantage to higher rank - hopefully that is fixed today


Make sure the petition/voting/acceptance logic is working as intended. Try to do wacky things to break it.


what sort of wacky things. It kinda forces you to do what it wants you to do corretly (idiot proofed) OTOH: i have tried to give the terminal items (goofy idea) and of course it rejected them.


One problem with the recover jedi command - some people have gotten up to 5 robes from it


Check out the Dark Jedi challenge system. Are you getting the correct TEFs? Can you find any way to "cheat" in order to give yourself an unfair advantage or to avoid the battle. Do the challenge acceptance requirements seem reasonable?


well Tef is interesting for us dark jedi - yesterday we had the infectous TEF. If someone fought a Dark Jedi Enclave Guard they gained a tef about 50% of the time. If that happened all the jedi who were not grouped with him suddenly turned red to them (and vice versa) if you hit a person with the TEF you could the infection and were tefed as well. - interesting but nasty when everyone is using aoe attacks.


Also (and hopefully fixed today) Non FRS jedi who are neutral near knights with healing can heal overt knights and not pick up a TEF - very irritating as I tried to kill Rebel Jedi Scum. They would be healed and I could do nothing about it.




"And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only
Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise"
Rifleman Correspondent | Galactic Senator from Naboo
Ackehece - Eclipse | Tife - TestCenter




[--Riflewoman are all about sex drugs and rock and roll --]
Encoded as per Garva




IdrisTycho
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:49 am
#122

Please see this thread for issues with Light Jedi and the FRS.


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=398868
Ackehece
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:54 am
#123






Everseeker wrote:

OK, to comment, let me lay a simple framework: Let us say there are only 5 ranks... 1 to 5. 1 is the highest, 5 the lowest. If you do something "bad", you go down... Good, you can get voted to go up.


OK, I am #1. I do something bad.


I am demoted to #2... But there's already someone THERE... What happens to that person? do they get promoted to #1 "automaticly"?


Actually if you lose your rank you drop all the way to zero again and start climbing again . so there is no conflict ^_^ (other then having to kill your way to the top again!)





"And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only
Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise"
Rifleman Correspondent | Galactic Senator from Naboo
Ackehece - Eclipse | Tife - TestCenter




[--Riflewoman are all about sex drugs and rock and roll --]
Encoded as per Garva




Aerius
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:26 am
#124

Please tell me that XP gained from killing non-jedi characters will be like 1% of what you would get from a Jedi. Even allowing this is going to lead to so much grief it isnt funny, AH is going to be perma camped and ditto with the other imperial outposts. You are going to have elite power-gamer jedi gank newbies just trying buy their faction pet or whatever. Fun for the jedi, not fun for the casual player.






Aerius - DS
DS Armory: Home of 39/67 Stun Armor and 20k 48% Stun PSGs / -500, -4123 Senia, Naboo
Now buying Premium rated Crystals/Pearls - contact me ingame

AgreaAtodlie
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:43 am
#125








have 1 day to vote on their selection. Open petitioning is the phase of voting during which players interested in advancing, “put their names into the hat”. After the petitioning phase, voting starts. Voting simply consists of indicating which player you think should get the spot. There are no “against” votes, only “for” votes. Think “tick marks”. Votes within the rank of advancement count double. The player with the most votes is given 1 day to accept the promotion via the voting terminal. If he does not accept within the one day, his win is nullified and a new round of petitioning begins. In the advent of ties, the winner is randomly selected. If there is more than one seat open at the close of voting, the top vote getters each receive a chance to accept the promotion. In the advent that no seats are available at the voting close (someone was demoted into that slot), the highest vote getter is recorded. Once a slot is freed, he may immediately accept the promotion without further voting provided that he still meets eligibility for the new rank.






Bad idea. Real life concerns may prevent an individual logging in on a daily basis. Therefore the system should allow minimum 2 days, maximum 5 days. I know I am unable to get in game everyday and this would be unfair to casual players.


This too is a bad idea. Regardless of idealistic thoughts, this will lead to favortism, the good ol'buddy system, and is frankly altogether stupid. So I can't vote no, lol, I just won't vote, and if I am friends with enough other like minded Jedi, we could make it so they never advance.


Refer to first highlighted message. 1 day is unrealistic.


Also, covert timer for cloning needs to be fixed, as it promotes clone camping again. As proven on tc2...

ElanMak
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:56 am
#126

Two comments:

Force ranking will end up being dominated byone PA. Once a PA gets a foot-hold on a high position in the force rank system, then that PA will graduate its own members up the tree and quickly will control the whole tree. Certainly, some non-PA members will get on the force rank tree now and then, but they will have to struggle and work very hard.People who are in the PA will glide up through the ranks with no trouble. So, the force rank system will become a PA thing, and 99% of the player population will not know or care about it.


Second: The BIGGEST problem withPVP right now is that its nearly impossible get started doing PVP without getting STOMPED on and griefed, just because people think its funny. The PVP population is asmall percentage of the overall population,and this force ranking system does nothing to improve overall PVP experience and continues to support the problem where a small minority of PVP'er can STOMP on everyone else, which makes 99% of the people have no fun, and only 1% are successful.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tree - a very tall Wookiee: Hunter of all things that move.
Stilgar - a FAT blue Rodian: Maker of all things that do not move (* TRADERS NEED LOVE TOO, DEVS! *).
Former Mayor of Artisan Arches and Master Weaponsmith. Recently joined AoF and moved to Edoras. * Tempest Server *
Ragu_TIO
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:18 am
#127

As it is right now, master saber/defender is the winner in all duels that I have seen. Master saber/defender with Enhancer 0/4/4/0 or 0/4/0/4 seems to be the best. They will be the only ones moving up the force ranks to any high lvl. Force Power people lack damage, speed, accuracy, and is too much force cost that makes them bad in duels. (over all sucks, choke is about the best move unless using it againest an enhancer/healer). Now you might be wodering why I'm talking about the skills, not trying to get them nerfed, but to show you that the Exp for when an opposing member is killed should be given to the whole group. A healer is there to heal and defend him/herself, a force user is there to help out just like an enhancer. If they don't get the DB,and most of the time they don't, they never get any exp. Thats why it should be given to the whole group and not just the person who DB's. Also with that Exp, you get people in the group who don't even fight and just have a deathblow macro going to get exp, but never help out. (not a good thing.)


Thats my take on the system so far, could and should be changed to effect the group and not just the deathblower.
DarkShadow1313
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:32 am
#128

Wel I understand the need for Jedi XP loss when killed. The problem is that I have a Jedi on TC2. I dided only like 2 or 3 times and hve almost -60k Jedi Xp. That is a little steep. As for Jedi ranking I haven't done the trials yet so all I can gain or lose rank in "normal" PVP.



So many stupid people are still alive because it is illegal to kill them.
Anyone who says, "Trust Me" can not be trusted.
It is not what you are killing but what you are allowing to live.

Cieboa - Elder Jedi
Danu - Trader (Domestics)
Rachis - Elder Smuggler
Arianrhod - Trader (Structures)
nolan007
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:43 am
#129







Force ranking will end up being dominated byone PA. Once a PA gets a foot-hold on a high position in the force rank system, then that PA will graduate its own members up the tree and quickly will control the whole tree. Certainly, some non-PA members will get on the force rank tree now and then, but they will have to struggle and work very hard.People who are in the PA will glide up through the ranks with no trouble. So, the force rank system will become a PA thing, and 99% of the player population will not know or care about it.







I agree.


This is going to be a problem.


If this is a player controlled system, I suspect 1 or 2 PAs will maintain control over the ranks through rigged matches and black-balling members.


I don't claim to know too much about the FRS; however, this situation needs to be considered.







~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Star Wars vs. Star Wars Galaxies
(Revised 07.07.05)

( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

Huin
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:56 am
#130

I know a guy that lost like 5 times and is at -1 million exp. This is out of hand.



"Men have less hesitation about offending one who makes himself loved than one who makes himself feared, for love is held together by a chain of obligation which, because man is sadly wicked, is broken at every opportunity to serve their self-interest, but fear is maintained by a dread of punishment which never abandons you."
Dark Side Force Master
Dau Ji-Quan
Page 10 of 13