Development Cycle Archive
Thread: SWG Changes Part 3: GCW Occupation System
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Got a couple more answers from the Dev. Team:
Why are Imperial forces attacking Dark Jedi?
The Empire has a campaign against all Jedi. The soldiers of the Empire have no knowledge of what differences there are between Dark & Light Jedi. There is nothing to indicate that the Emperor and Vader want Dark Jedi around.
What is the reasoning for allowing high ranking faction members to avoid scans?
High ranking officers aren’t going to be scanned by their own army, but they will be scanned by the opposing army. This isn’t anything new. We haven’t touched the code or the percentages at all. The only difference is that now, Rebel officers are protected from Rebel scans.
Hmm wait just a second. I am a Dark Jedi I have been one for well over a year now. We have always wanted there to be more of a differance between Dark and Light Jedi. And now you are doing that and the FRS also did it. But here is the problem. It is all one sided to beging a light jedi.
A Ranked Light jedi can heal at 5 sec intervals. Where as a Dark Jedi of the same rank takes longer than normal. We get no bonuses to our saber and only marginal upgrades to force powers. But seeing as how Force Powers are so borked no one bothers using them. Now Dark jedi have to worry about traveling to any planet. And Light jedi can travel freely in Rebel controller areas. I dont know about you but when I check out my bio it says Imperial. Not only that but I am am officer in the Imperial service and have been so for over a year. Now you telling me that all that faction I gained to increase my rank does nothing for me at all. I am a Sith lord then and is vader worried that I am vying for his spot as the second in command? That the FRS does nothing for me at all being on the dark side.
Can you please tell me again why I am on the dark side and not a light jedi? Because not only are we serverly outnumbered as it is now. You just gave a few thousand jedi another reason to go to the light side.
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Why are Imperial forces attacking Dark Jedi?
The Empire has a campaign against all Jedi. The soldiers of the Empire have no knowledge of what differences there are between Dark & Light Jedi. There is nothing to indicate that the Emperor and Vader want Dark Jedi around.
TalusianRogue wrote:
NickHeel wrote:
(snip)
No player shuold have 100% effeciency at doing something without skill points spent. And that applies to anywhere in the Galaxy.
I'll agree with you that leniancy shuold come with rank. But, to an extent. 75%efficiency is pushing it for a Colonel in his own territory. And if he was in enemy territory, he's going to be fired on when he gets seen by the scan team before they even get a chance to scan him. So what's the point of using a Smuggler at all? None. He doesn't need them in his own territory and he won't need them in enemy territory.
Smugglers get a 95% sca evasion. Colonels shouldn't receive that. 75% tops. Leniancy is leniancy. But blatant disrespect and corruption shouldn't be tollerated.
We find ourselves in agreement on your last note, but I still wish to contend that there is a real possibility of smugglers becoming worthwhile in getting High ranking officers across enemy lines safely. Most of the time when I go into a city, it isn't guns blazing. The reason smugglers is pointless at this point in time, is that there are still no consequences whatsoever for being caught with contraband. The question of "Why smuggler?" ought first be answered before we ask "Why high ranking officers too?"
Again, Calandryll this is a fantastic oppurtunity to bring some real life into the smuggler profession - use it wisely.
Arialias wrote:
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Got a couple more answers from the Dev. Team:
Why are Imperial forces attacking Dark Jedi?
The Empire has a campaign against all Jedi. The soldiers of the Empire have no knowledge of what differences there are between Dark & Light Jedi. There is nothing to indicate that the Emperor and Vader want Dark Jedi around.
What is the reasoning for allowing high ranking faction members to avoid scans?
High ranking officers aren’t going to be scanned by their own army, but they will be scanned by the opposing army. This isn’t anything new. We haven’t touched the code or the percentages at all. The only difference is that now, Rebel officers are protected from Rebel scans.
Hmm wait just a second. I am a Dark Jedi I have been one for well over a year now. We have always wanted there to be more of a differance between Dark and Light Jedi. And now you are doing that and the FRS also did it. But here is the problem. It is all one sided to beging a light jedi.
A Ranked Light jedi can heal at 5 sec intervals. Where as a Dark Jedi of the same rank takes longer than normal. We get no bonuses to our saber and only marginal upgrades to force powers. But seeing as how Force Powers are so borked no one bothers using them. Now Dark jedi have to worry about traveling to any planet. And Light jedi can travel freely in Rebel controller areas. I dont know about you but when I check out my bio it says Imperial. Not only that but I am am officer in the Imperial service and have been so for over a year. Now you telling me that all that faction I gained to increase my rank does nothing for me at all. I am a Sith lord then and is vader worried that I am vying for his spot as the second in command? That the FRS does nothing for me at all being on the dark side.
Can you please tell me again why I am on the dark side and not a light jedi? Because not only are we serverly outnumbered as it is now. You just gave a few thousand jedi another reason to go to the light side.
If they put the Jedi Mind Trick back in, it'd even the playing field with this (the getting scanned thing).
As a sidenote, many powerful and evil dictators made concerted efforts to destroy those who they felt threatened their power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely - and it also brings with it great paranoia. So Emperor cracking down on Dark Jedi *sorta* makes sense in a way...it's unbalanced, but then again Rebel Light Jedis get the crackdown to deal with. Try going for Novice Lightsaber and praying to the SWG gods you don't get scanned, when your Padawan trials send you right smack in the middle of Mos Espa 
DarkSmyth wrote:
Hello!
Lorgara wrote:
hiya jung
DarkSmyth wrote:
Amscu_Edfo wrote:
So, basically if a town has friendly Special Forces standing around, an onleave individual gets scanned and turned Combatant, Special Forces just watch while he shoots all the neighboring guarding NPCs. So theoritically he and his partners have a field day in enemy controlled cities. Great....really great.
_________________________________________________________
Exactly right. If you guys are going to take the TEFs away, then if someone gets scanned in one of these cities and is "outed," then they need to be turned special forces(PvP enabled). Before the argument could be made that they could not participate in the GCW without fear of player retribution. Well in this case they really do have a conscious choice to make, while still being able to participate. Do I carry illegal goods and have a chance to get killed by a player if I get "outed," or abide by the law and avoid PvP? Remember, the ONLY way to get "outed" is to have illegal items, so PvP in this situation is 100% avoidable. And please don't go crying to me that it's not fair that you can't carry sliced stuff now. You want the reward, take the risk. In a case like this no one should have any sympathy for the person who gets "outed" and complains because they did it to themselves.
TEFs going away I don't agree with but will tolerate, but this is inexcusable. Being scanned and caught with illegal goods should flag you attackable by ANY of the opposing faction. A single Imperial outpost in the middle of nowhere being killed by a Rebel PvEer means nothing, but to let PvEers turn whole cities because they go unopposed cannot stand.
People always ask how just letting the PvE players have their fun negatively affects me, well, this is it. I have to stand by and watch as PvE only players eliminate all resistance in a city with impunity, in some cases turning the city from one side to the other. I can't just "ignore" that as some have suggested because it's all part of the same GCW. What they are doing in that city will affect the overall status of the war, so it cannot be allowed.
In giving the PvE only players a pleasurable playing experience, please make sure that you don't eliminate everyone else's.
And if you aren't going to do that, then those had better be some REALLY hard hitting reinforcement NPCs if you expect them to wipe out whole groups of elite players.
Agree 100%
Let the PvE's get their kicks at a PvE base. Or make the NPCs something a l33td00d would really try and avoid.
I agree about making the NPCs something to be feared, but disagree that the PvEers get forced out of the cities because of Area TEFs that they want to avoid and all of that forced pvp stuff. My issue with it is that for PvPers, the content won't go away. How many PvPers go running around the out of the way cities killing NPCs? How many PvPers spend their time doing the PvE content overt in the first place? The PvPers are PvPing, and they will continue to PvP in the new system. The only difference is that there will be some PvEers right there enjoying the content alongside them. Immersiveness is a HUGE issue, and i don't take it lightly, but in this situation wouldn't it be better to be lax to allow people who don't like the PvP playstyle to have some chance at GCW content without being forced to be prepared for that playstyle?
I understand your point completely. But look at it like this...
Say you are in your "Faction Controlled City". Troops marching around protecting the place. Then a member of the enemy faction comes in and starts taking out the troops. You are a "Spec Ops" troop. What would you do? Just sit there and watch while the PvE's have their fun? This would destroy immersiveness for me and I'm not even a PvPer.
Either you need a city Area-TEF (a TEF to all the opposing PC fational enemies in a small radius),or make these patrol units really, really tough so you don't have what you do now in cities like Mos Espa.
I thinkif you fixthis one part most folks will be very cool with it all.
Probably won't end up agreeing on this issue
The TEF argument is a deep rooted one in everyone's minds. I would agree to the Area TEF thing if it were set at certain points... Say each of the cities has a "base of operations" (someone mentioned this before) and by entering it you TEF yourself. That I would think is fine, because it would require both Special Forces AND regular Combatants to clear out a city for take - over.
It doesn't solve the issue of a Special Forces player having no recourse when a Combatant is slaying the NPC patrols in other parts of the city, but this is one issue... repeating myself ... that i think immersiveness can take a backburner to in the name of playstyle. I know a lot of people that really shun doing anything PvE with the GCW atm because it involves the risk of PvP. These people are not going to change any time soon, so with a continued TEF and things of that "forced playstyle" nature, they will miss out on the primary focus of SWG. I guess the summary is that with the current changes in the works, weighing what each "side" on the TEF stand loses... the pure PvEers lose nothing, but gain the ability to enjoy a huge chunk of the game's content. The PvPers and people who like to PvP lose a small chunk of immersiveness. On a scale, i say the latter is not a high price to pay.
Forgot one other thing the PvPers might lose... and a bit of PvP content, in that they won't have any TEFed people to kill... but i think it's safe to say most PvP takes place consensually.
Message Edited by Lorgara on 02-08-2005 01:22 PM
Well I disagree with imperials hunting dark jedi ...... but the devs will need to do something to even it out. Like special force powers or something like that to give a reason why they should go dark jedi and not reg jedi. ( For Balance )
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Why are Imperial forces attacking Dark Jedi?
The Empire has a campaign against all Jedi. The soldiers of the Empire have no knowledge of what differences there are between Dark & Light Jedi. There is nothing to indicate that the Emperor and Vader want Dark Jedi around.
Message Edited by jexicredent9669 on 02-08-2005 04:14 PM
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Not sure I understand. The reinforcements are only called if you are a rebel and are scanned in an Imperial controlled city or of you are an Imperial and are scanned in a Rebel controlled city. If you are not a Rebel or an Imperial, reinforcements do not get called on you.
Warryyr wrote:
Ruh wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
Telakyte wrote:
So, basically if a town has friendly Special Forces standing around, an onleave individual gets scanned and turned Combatant, Special Forces just watch while he shoots all the neighboring guarding NPCs. So theoritically he and his partners have a field day in enemy controlled cities. Great....really great.
My thoughts exactly.
What fun is watching some people who got scanned (and their friends) smoke your controlled city of all NPC's? And being totally powerless to do anything about it?
I also think the complete and total LACK of consideration for non-combat players (crafters, entertainers, what have you) to be very shameful. We have no way to defend ourselves from all of this, and it sounds like not only will we be scanned, REINFORCEMENTS show up to give us even LESS of a chance to survive an encounter. I already pity the Armorsmith who makes a vendor run and gets ganked and all his new armor is slightly decayed.
I don't look forward to being a non-combatant in this new system of NPC gankfests. I ended up with negative CorSec faction for going up on the Corellian Corvette once. As it stands now, CorSecs shoot at me every so often, sometimes a few at once. Sounds like I'll get detachments of CorSecs ganking me if I step foot in Coronet Cantina and get scanned. WHAT FUN - can't wait to play some music in there!
What about the non-combatants? Is our new place in this game to just...die for past mistakes before this new system was put in place? Though faction standing was a factor before, it sounds like it's going to be a nightmare now. What a hoot for the non-combatant, and what little fun to have whilejust trying to make a delivery or run your business.
Sorry to rain on the Combat people's parade, but there are lots of us who can barely handle a CDEF pistol. Think what you want of us, but we're not Combat people, and before this change was announced, it seemed like a viable way to play SWG.
I don't mean to come off harsh with this, but if you are not a combatant, dont join the war. I cant remember all of the changes but isnt there the civilian status you can go to, where you wont have to worry about rebel or imperials "ganking" you since you wont get set "overt" (or PvE Combatant I believe) to the npcs.
But my main response to your complain is...if you cant fight in the war, don't join it.
I NEVER JOINED A WAR.
I am neutral. Never once did I mention specificallyI would get ganked by any member of the Rebellion or the Empire. Those are NOT the only 2 factions that will affect these changes...people need to understand this.
I have faction rankings for various NPC's. One visit to the Corellian Corvette has put me at negative CorSec faction. I will therefore be unable to stand anywhere in Coronet once this system goes in, for deliveries, for business, for pleasure, for playing music/buffing in Coronet Cantina, etc. I will be scanned and I will be attacked, and reinforcements will be called on me, all while the only weapon I possess is a freakin' Slitherhorn.
This is not about the war. I want nothing to do with the war. I am just trying to run a business in this game.
This is about factional NPC's ganking me, just as I explained it, and just as Callandryl laid out in the thread. Please re-read and you will see what I mean. This is NOT just Rebel vs. Imperial, this is EVERY single NPC that has a faction attached to it, depending on the controlled city you entered.
This still doesn't answer the question of what happens if you are a full time crafter/entertainer/etc who happens to be supporting the Empire or the Rebellion. Sounds like you're just out of luck and there's no way for you to contribute either way to the GCW. Guess it's time to go civilian instead of 'picking a side'.
TalusianRogue wrote:For Jedi Mind Tricks - Does the Force Persuasion line help that in any way? I was under the impression that it did.
I doubt it... the "automatic" Jedi mind trick hasn't happened since Publish 9, so the skill never got to be applied to it. Persuasion was added when Pub 9 went live, so they missed each other.
And the current "Jedi Mind Trick" just lets me turn a pet against its master. I've used it exactly 0 times, and I don't see how persuasion would help with a pet.
Maybe if they add it back in something will work with Persuasion... or maybe Persuasion will just work with standard scans when these new scans go in. /shrug.
And Calandryll... thank you so much for the response.
Glad to know someone read my post!
Thx