Development Cycle Archive

Shriss of the Sands, fantastic ideas! I also like your concept of the Bounty Hunter professions "role" in SWG.

Ok, so i know this really seems like i'm crying nerf a little, but i'm not. really. i'm justthinking with some reason...so here goes.

Although i have heard that BH's are no good in PvP, bla bla bla, "need all the power we can get"...bla, bla, bla... really i would suggest that you remove fire KD from the tree, or rather the "fire" part from it. I have no real objection to the dmg it does (after all if you are really kd, you're dead anyway, right?), but i just don't see how you can light someone up by hitting them with a crabine. To me it just seems like it would be too wierd. If it makes the hardcore BH's out there feel any better, i would have no objection to an extra-powerful bleed or something that does DoT if you are really attached to it...i just find the "fire" part too wierd for someone who does almost no dmg involving actual fire...now, if the bh's had a flamethrower...but that's commando so srry guys.

Grozurr its obvious that you dont know anything about the bounty hunter profesison.

Which situation are you talking about? You want the bounty hunters nerfed beacuse a bounty heater has beaten you once?

Thats sounds not like the reasonable arguments we need in this concept threads. I would really like to see moderators remove such unimportant useless posts as Grozurrs and my reply to Grozurr.

If you are not an adult why dont you let your parents make the forum post for you ? It would really make process easier and would fasten up concept process.

YOU ARE DESTRUCTIVE!

Grozurr, fireknockdown doesn't apply the "on fire" state and never has. You can use Ctrl-S and read the description. It sometimes knocks the target down and sometimes causes a dizzy state, but neither one is consistent.

We do have one special that applies a fire state and that is torso shot in the bh pistol tree. Many of us add that in once we've dizzied and knocked down, because it's one more thing an opponent has to worry about. If he's on fire and he's also getting shot in the eye, then he needs to heal himself, but he can't afford the mind, so he has to decide quickly and correctly, which adds one more facet to the fight.

On second thought, forget it.

After announcing yet another failure ofa publish, you can just figure it out for yourselves. You're doing that anyway.

Thunderheart, give me a buzz when you get around to looking at the real numbers, and stop living in dreamland.

Maybe in April, when you are faced with armies of Jedi overrunning servers?

Pfft, maybe not.

other posters have more than adequately addressed the bulk of the questions. i would suggest, however, that bh's are sadly lacking in defense. a fair and balanced remedy is to have rather high defenses to a single targetted npc or player and no defenses to to others. in this way, the bh is a master at one on one, but easily defeated by groups of 2 or more.

I want to say how I view BH in SWG compared to how you see them in the Star Wars films. When you watch the bh in the films, they're always extremely defensive, creative and fast in their responses. How can this translate to the game? Fairly simply really, we don't necessarily have to be heavy damage dealers (not saying take away the LLC but I wouldn't make a point of upgrading it to fix the problem), we should easily be able to avoid getting hit...period. Most of the problems they get into, they get out of almost completely unscathed...read this as DEFENSES, something bh in swg have none of. Another thing that's extremely common with BH in the movies is they all wear armor, want to upgrade our abilities slightly to meet other professions? Give the BH class something that fits the class and the style of the movies, give BH a skill that lowers the encumberance of armor even if only by a small margin to encourage the use of armor and make up for the lack of defenses we have. They all wear armor in the films, it should be encouraged, and that ability will give a slight increase in regeneration, slight reduction in HAM costs for specials (and given the horrid costs for carbine and LLC specials, this won't be that great in and of itself) as well as the ability to use those additional points to increase our own HAM even if only slightly. Unfortunately, we should not be so defensive capable that we can tank, in a nutshell...LOTS of ranged defensive skill and moderate melee defense and/or the armor encumberance reduction skill.

As far as benifits to a group, sadly from a rp'ing perspective, BH always seem to be solo with exception to using each other to get information. The ability to track down a jedi (whenever that gets fixed...oh please please please fix normal missions first, I'm so sick of spending 45 minutes to find the jerk stuck in a wall in some cantina or not spawned at all or unattackable or -insert your bugged BH mission here-) is pretty much the only group benifiting ability that makes much sense.

Unique abilities, well, this might sound kind of off the wall but professional assasins are known for doing things one way, kill the mark in one shot cleanly. How you can do this in a game without being so overpowered you have BH running around capping overt pc's would be to do someting simliar to the rogue ability assasinate in EQ. Random one-shot ability, say small percent chance that you do a massive amount of damage when using a special. This would fullfill the 'assasin' title of what a BH is about and not be controllable making it exploitable in PVP (or simply remove the skill when the player is in PVP altogether).

Bounty Hunters should have access to a FAR wider range of weapons, both heavy and light. Not for damage purposes, but for role playing purposes. Bounty hunters use the tools at hand and anything (think mcguyver here)lying around to get the job done, this includes rifles. How many hitmen you know use automatic (carbines) weapons? How many hitmen you know use rifles? If you answered most/all for rifles, then there's your answer, heh. As it stands, it's clear that we're really only encouraged to use scatter pistol (and the basic noob pistols from marksman tree), LLC and a carbine (none of which are really all that appealing in my opinion and I only use it as an opening offense to dizzy and kd whatever I'm attacking anyway but that may just simply be me).

Other than the bugginess of various aspects of the investigation tree, droid speed, find, track, the problems with the marks and how/where they spawn...basically all of investigation tree, I'm actually happy with the class. I'd really love to see more defenses happen over any other suggestion though.

Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

What defines theBounty Hunterrole in combat?

A Bounty Hunter's Job is to track and capture/kill their marks. A Bounty Hunter should not belong to either the Rebel or Imperial faction as it goes against the Bounty Hunter idiology of "whatever brings in the most profit." Our role is to take out the most wanted people in the galaxy be it Politicans, Merchants, or Combatants. Our role is not to participate in any type of civil war unless speficially hired by one side or the other.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Bounty Hunter's should possess the ability to control a fight granted they are able to "surprise" their marks. To this extent it is important that Bounty Hunter posture and state attacks be revamped to be effective in conjunction with the defenses of other combat classes.

What offensive abilities?

Bounty Hunter is a purely offensive combat class. The problem is that with the defenses of other classes our offensive capabilities have been nullified. A Bounty Hunter should be able to engage a target with a maximum amount of firepower in a short amount of time. The problem with this is short sightedness on the part of other people and could be remedied by the removal of the BH class from the GCW unless contracted. Everybody bases their assumptions on PvP prowess and so if Bounty Hunter's were allowed to freely PvP in the gcw with the highly powerful attacks they should possess, then ofcourse people are going to ask for removal or degredation of our skills - however if Bounty Hunter's are removed from PvP unless they are pursuing Player Marks or Jedi Bounties then they will not pose a serious griefing problem to the rest of the swg community. Effectivally people would have absolutely nothing to fear from a BH unless they had a bounty on their head and if players are smart they'll never have anything to worry about.

What defensive abilities?

Bounty Hunter's should have only basic defensive capabilities and these should be implemented in an offensive way. Bounty Hunter's should be given attacks to "slow down" other players, and to this extent these attacks could be made todo no harm to the opposing player but rather place them in a "/pause" state allowing the bh to either escape, or buy themselves more time to heal. These attacks could be put on a timer (although it is my feeling kd should not be) so that BH's still wouldn't have the same defensive capabilites of other classes but do have some to make them viable when taking onplayer/jedi marks.

What unique abilities?

Bounty Hunter's should be able to use player traps. Bounty Hunter's are not solely reliant on projectile weapons in any of the literature I have read. Often times traps are set for or used to snare marks. This would also justify the reason for mastering scout especially since vehicles are out.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Bounty Hunter's do not belong in a group unless speficially hired. The only advantage they should add to the group is the excellent offensive capabilities they possess. There should be consequences for not meeting the requirments of the "contract" such as a death mark.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

Other professions should be able to call on BH's if they have been cheated/exploited/harassed by another player. They should be able to access a special interface in BH terminals for posting bounties including a name and payment. BH's should be able to work with Armorsmiths/Weaponsmiths to purchase BH specific armor (and yes I do think it would be nice for each fighting class to have specific armor tailored to that classes combat role) and BH weapons/traps. And ofcourse BH's should get all their droids from DE's.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

In my opinion other combat classes should have no strong urge to have an encounter with a BH. I see a lot of people saying that bh's should not be as powerfulin a weapon as a player who is solely dependent on that weapon but I disagree. With the current system and the relative amount of skill points expended to master BH as apposed to the single weapons classes I believe that BH's should absolutely be more powerful. The use of weapons and force is our sole means of survival and income as apposed to a pistoleer, carbineer, rifleman, TKA, ect who have enough remaining skill points to master another profession with which they can earn money. In essence for a BH to live he must be the better then anybody else at the admisitration of force -ie he must be able to employ the weapons he uses better then anybody else and if this is not the case then he must rely on his traps to make up for his lack of skills.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Bounty Hunter's should have no role in the GCW unless speficially hired by a side.

I am a Bounty Hunter and have read many posts by many people who are not bounty hunters and who have never been bounty hunters. I can appreciate their concern about us becomming to powerful in PvP but I think they are negelcting to look at all the facets of this issue. I am not trying to make the Bounty Hunter the ultimate PvP template infact quite the opposite. I would like to see Bounty Hunter's almost completely removed from PvP factional battles unless hired at a VERY high price to participate. Bounty Hunter's have no buisness getting caught up in regular military combat and should really only extert their force when being paid to do so. I say give us Bounty Hunter's the firepower and skills to take down any single combat template 1 on 1 but take away the ability to employ our force in an unchecked aggressive nature such as that of an Overt Factional Member. Also to avoid explotation and dabbling in our highly powerful and effective attacks make this inability to join one of the current faction occur at the Novice Bounty Hunter rank and have this setting over ride any other professions untill the skill is surrendered.

BH's should control the population of the Jedi. But that won't happen if you guys remove permadeath for Jedi. Great. Check out my sig, SOE. It's the latest thing for BH's lately.

What defines theBounty Hunter'srole in combat?

Like most others have stated here, the Bounty Hunter should be the ultimate duel or one-on-one combat class in the game. 217 skill points are invested in the profession and its combat power should accurately represent this.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

They should be the master of "state effects" and be given new trade tools that are effective mainly in duels or one-on-one combat. However, they should not remain the only class in the game that has no defensive capabilities whatsoever. As other professions are allowed to diversify and "stack" defensive bonuses, the Bounty Hunter should be given at least a minimal level of ranged/melee defense, state effect defenses, etc.

What offensive abilities?

Bounty Hunters should be the masters of one-on-one combat. Thus, high amounts of damage (but NOT the highest), better accuracy (on par with other Masters), but no Area of Effect damages beyond LLC fire cone. I love the idea that JEST3R and others proposed on adding wrist launchers, poison darts, etc.I believe it could go beyond this, with schematics for many varied weapons being available through a 3rd Faction "Hutt" or "Underworld" or "Bounty Hunter" Guild recruiter. More on a 3rd Faction below.

Thus, it would be the application of state effects and trade tools that makes the Bounty Hunter the ultimate duel/one-on-one class and not just some "I Win" button (ie. not another Eye Shot or Torso Shot.)

What defensive abilities?

A minimal level of defenses, which would still be a great leap from the defenses Bounty Hunters currently (don't) have. I think the key should be to view the Bounty Hunter as the "Light Tank." High amounts of damage, lower amounts of defense. (But a minimal level has to be established first!)

What unique abilities?

Again, I love JEST3R's comments. They should be given special trade tools to make them a truly respectable one-on-one combat class. It would be the reliance on these trade tools that make them effective.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

In group combat they should act as the "Light Tank" as in other MMORPGs. They need to rely on tactics to position themselves to deal out their high amounts of damage, while avoiding taking the brunt of an assault in PvE/PvP.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

This is where I thinka 3rd Faction shouldcome into play. In the linear, two-dimensional conflict between the Empire and the Rebellion (as it is represented in this game) --the gameplay and roleplay aspects of the Bounty Hunterare ignored.

For example, in Player Associations, Bounty Hunters are told not take a certain GCW-aligned mark or they'll get kicked out. Yet Bounty Hunters in Star Wars canon are hired guns who mainly work for the various criminal elements around the galaxy. They are not in the full-time employ of the Empire, as many here would think. To further dispell this myth,some might evenend up working for the Rebellion from time to time, as they mightwork for acriminal syndicate that issympathetic to the Rebellion. Butby their very nature they are entrepreneurs who work mainly for themselves, not as just another soldier. They are private businessmenand women.

What Bounty Hunters as a class need, and what this game needs, is a 3rd "Criminal" Faction. Allow it to still engage in the main content of this game, the GCW, but in a limited, temporary TEF "mercenary" role. Allow Bounty Hunters to purchase schematics in the "Criminal" Faction for their special trade tools, weapons, and armors. Allow Smugglers to join and get Player Bounties put on their heads. It adds dynamics to this game that I really think should be there. This would also help alleviate the problem Bounty Hunters have with Player Associations dictating their career paths.Criminal Faction PAs may spring up, but due to limited membership the 3rd Faction wouldn't detract from what shouldrightly be the main content of the game -- theGalactic Civil War. It just adds a third element to it that I think this game is missing.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Bounty Hunters should be able to do the same amount of damage and have the same speed and accuracy as Master Pistoleers and Master Carbiniers. Where the difference should lay is in the types of specials these classes have. Pistoleers/Carbiniers obviously will have Area of Effect damages and a wider array of specials tochoose fromfor a wide variety of situations,Bounty Hunters will be strictly focused on taking out a single target. I think it should be this way since, again, the skill point investment is so much more in the BH profession where these other classes have the ability to acquire other skills, and not only in combat, to make their character more diverse. Classes that should out-damage a BH should be Rifleman, Commandos, and melee classes.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Bounty Hunters shouldn't be involved in large-scale Galactic Civil War except as "mercenaries" working for the criminal syndicates, who are sometimes contracted by the Rebel Alliance or Empire.

Some good ideas here. Just like to mention one thing that brings BH thoughts to my mind- special equipment. Armor and weapons. Bounty Hunters relied on ultimate equipment to deal with their enemies, and cunning. Surprise was one of their main abilities. Some 'conceal' abilities might go over very well, though some enemy classes (Rangers?) should have detection abilities. Every power needs a counter in a well balanced game..

I also believe tracking skills for people, like Rangers have, could be as simple as a /scan ability. I'm surprised bounty hunters tracking feels so limited. Possible some more informative versions of /who.

Weapon wise, I had a lot of fun with Bounty Hunter weapons. They are devastating especially with a good damage slice krayt gun. But that was a couple months ago, not sure how things are now.

The BH LLC's can do a TON of damage, at all ranges. Even 75%+ composite armor cannot stand many 13k hits, especially with a KD/Dizzy opponent. I feel that part of the BH class isn't bad, and the LLC is a good 'BH only' weapon. Pistols are mainly used 'today' for head shots to take out the non-recoverable mind in PvP and one on one duels, but this strikes me as a little odd right now. Actually, stun pistols are starting to become 'the standard' to deal with well armored composite foes. A close ranged stun baton with specials that givea 5 sec delay would be interesting addition.

But what about armor? I was always amazed that Composite was the BH 'main armor', especially given how some of the carbine moves do insane damage to the BH shooting it. What about a 'lighter HAM' but high protect BH armor , even achieved via quests or 'Bounty Hunter points' ?

Ren