Development Cycle Archive
Thread: In-Concept Open Discussion
You know, my biggest thing with "In Concept" Feedback is no one has any idea of the structure of the game mechanics right now. Sure somethings are pretty easy to figure out with the mechanics, the higher your weapon accuracy the more you hit.
What I would really, really, like to see is an old style "Player's Handbook" for this game. Nothing explains the mechanics. I have seen guess's, theorys, stab's in the dark, etc... on the game mechanics, but I cannot find two post's from a DEV on how stuff works. The only ONE post I found, which might I say I am quite gratefull for, is the one I beleive TH posted on the cap's for Skill Tapes.
Can a DEV, or someone in that position, post HOW the all of the modifiers work, what they are "rolled" against, etc. If I were to take a wild stab, I would say that everything is based off a *ahem* D100 roll, but once again I am just guessing.
The main point here is we cannot post something that will actually help without knowing what "balances". A Great example of this is what is going on in the DE forum. Some background information on how stuff works would be great.
That is my 2 cents on the subject, I really hope someone pays attention because this is about the 5th time I have posted this request over various threads...
I am just tickled pink that I was quoted by a Dev 
but just totally astonished 
that the point I was making is without a doubt - missed. 
We are not Combat. If I live with that statement - I have really no comprehension as to how Scouts/Rangers made the cut, You can master both by grouping and never firing a pistol, carbine, rifle or any other weapon.
We are not entertainers. People stopped laughing at my jokes long ago since I still get less than 20% slices 
We aren't artisans or crafters. We don't get to experiment on anything and even if we did - it's one line - spices that is even remotely connected to crafting. I can't make my own AUK's or WUK's (and don't want to) and I don't even make my own laser knifes of mlecular clamps anymore. Since I'm not a crafter I don't have a factory and prefer my stuff in crates. So I buy them from crafters who are also smugglers (note: they are CRAFTERS).
Which leads me to..... well logically let's look at how we get to Smuggler. I must start out as a Marksman (hmmmm - sounds like combat) and also train as a Brawler (hmmmm - more combat). Then after reaching unarmed 4 by killing 1000's of things with my bare hands (is that combat?) and reaching Pistol 4 by shooting 1000's of things with my pistol (dang combat keeps coming up) I may then choose to go to Novice Smuggler - ohhhh - but only after killing 100's of more things with - you got it - a pistol. You know, if it wasn't for all the combat I had to do I might have been an artisan. 
OK - here's a scoop - I get asked to group far more with my Rogue tag up than I do as a Master Creature Handler anymore - since the pet neutering of a month ago. If you ask almost any smuggler - as you can see by reading all of the comments here - we are outraged not to be considered a Hybrid combat class. If we aren't that - you are going to have 1000's of very unhappy smugglers since we love our combat support roles.
We do not understand.
Please have some Developer enlighten us.
If you are going to take away our combat skills, please let me know now so I can go to work on BH (like the game needs another one of those). I like playing hybrid classes - it is so much more rewarding to be able to fight and slice and speak every language in the galaxy (oops - everyone can - ignore that) and if you go to the Smuggler Boards you will see we are a true Botherhood/sisterhood and one of the few this game has.
Don't destroy us.
Give us some direction - as of this moment - you have taken all direction away from us and we are spinning in circles. Soon we will get dizzy - fall down - and die. I know you don't want that burden on your sole.
I will admit this idea is strongly inspired by FFXI's Mission based Storyline. Star Wars Galaxies should also have a storyline. This storyline should strongly follow the story of the Star Wars Trilogy, as well as Shadows of the Empire, and, perhaps, some of the novels revolving around the fledgling New Republic, and it's role reversal with the Empire. The storyline would unfold through players completing specific missions on behalf of their Faction. The story would also unfold for players only so fast and so much as they participate in it. They should start as far back as ANH, right after the destruction of Alderaan, and continue through the end of ESB. Future expansions can do missions in the order of Shadows of the Empire, then RotJ, then any following history they might want to add. As players complete missions, their rank within their faction will rise, allowing them special perks. This will help add a true feel of interaction and importance within not only the GCW, but in the history of the Star Wars Trilogy as well.
Battlefields can be incorporated into this as well. Players may have to converge on battlefields to take part in PVE/PVP combat in order to complete a specific Mission. These would be akin to classic "Boss" Battles. After a player is successful on a Battlefield, that Battlefield is now "Unlocked," and the player can then return to participate in PVE/PVP combat. Player can earn points for kills while on a battlefield that can be turned into their faction for powerful and rare non-tradeable items.
The new action oriented gameplay of SWG will give rise to a new aspect of it's gameplay - PVP as XP combat. Players looking for XP must be flagged by a Factional NPC for PVP combat. This flag will last only until a Player chooses to shut it off, or until they are "killed." They cannot, however, turn it off while in the middle PVP combat. Players can earncombat XPanywhere in the galaxy, though the best places would have to be the Battlefields. This will add another important factor to the battlefields, as well as importance for participating in the story driven GCW. While in PVP combat, any player can be incapped three times. There is no Deathblow ability. After 60 seconds, unless a player who can revives the incapped player, the player will get back up and have a brief moment of invulnerability. After that passes they can then start fighting again. Once they have been incapped three times, they will be sent back to their cloning point with their PVP flag off. However if they are on the Battlefield, they will be sent back to the nearest Battlefield entrance, also with their PVP flag off. There is no item decay on death, nor any other punishment. A player can only gain XP when he wins combat, so losing is bad enough as it is. It also is a blow to ones ego, which one should take into consideration.
Players can also earn another form of combat XP - Mounted XP. This will come from players winning PVP battles while riding landspeeders and Speederbikes/Swoopbikes. As players earn Mounted XP they can learn different maneuvers to use while riding and fighting on a Speeder.
This idea can also be incorporated into the Space expansion, where players would earn Space Combat XP. They to could then learn maneuvers and abilities for their fighters, and also be flagged for different ships and weapons.
SWG shouldimplement a third faction, the Black Sun. Though never overtly seen throughout the films, the criminal syndicate is there. Having a third faction would help balance servers that are either too many Rebels or too many Imperials. The Imperials will always be at war with the Rebels and the Black Sun, Rebels vs. Imps and Black Sun, and Black Sun vs. Rebels and Imps.
Players should also choose their Factions at the point of character creation, and only after many trials will they be able to switch to another faction if they so choose. Faction Points should remain, and should be awarded to players for finishing missions from your Faction as well as killing any players of an opposing faction.
The game should focus more on self-sufficiency in PVP combat on a one for one basis, with an emphasis on a players skill being the over-riding factor of such things as "God" templates. Grouping should come from a need for survivability in a PVP world. SWG's gameplay should not be handled like a traditional MMORPG, i.e. Tank, Support, Healer, Nuker.
--The Melee Archtype
The archtype of warriors and frontline fighters throughout the galaxy. These sturdy professionals are meant to get in close and get the job done. Their abilities rely heavily on the Action Bar.
-Brawler - learns the basic modes of fighting hand to hand and with Melee weapons.
-Knifemaster - Skilled in the realm of knives and daggers for combat use. Has high speed but low damage. Can also dual wield for greater effect.
-Swordsman - Skilled in the realm of 1 and 2 handed swords. Have a medium speed of attack and medium attack damage.
-Pikeman - Skilled with various forms of polearms, staves, scythes, etc. Has a slow rate of attack but high damage output,and can swing their weapons to hit multiple enemies at once for less damage.
-Teras Kasi - learned in the killing arts of Hand to hand combat. Uses the body itself as a weapon. Has a fast hit rate, and medium damage
--The Ranged Archtype
Attacking from a distance, they rely less on physical prowess and more on distance. As such, they are not as strong or sturdy as a melee combatant. Depending on the ability used, they will use either the Action Bar or the Mind Bar.
-Marksman - learned in various ranged weapons combat.
-Carbineer - Skilled in medium range firearms. Medium hit rate, Medium damage. Can burst shot multiple players at once for less damage, or precision shoot a single player for more damage.
-Rifleman - Snipers and Assassins of the game. Deal great damage from a distance, but can be easily defeated if discovered and put into short range combat. Also has a slow rate of fire.
-Commando - master of the heavier ranged weapons of the game. Has a slow rate of fire, can deal medium to high damage to a group of players, but must get into short range to do so.
--The Support Archtype
Not versed in the realm of combat, but designed more to supplement the combat archtypes. If chosen as a Primary Archtype, the character will see very little frontline combat. Relies heavily on the Mind Bar.
-Scout - learned in the ways of the wilderness, can track animals and forage, as well as heal the minds and bodies of Comrades.
-Slicer - A sneaky thief who can steal from enemies, slice weapons and computer terminals for personal gain, and can create various forms of narcotics for use as buffs.
-Entertainer - skilled in the arts of song and dance, Entertainers help replenish the Mind stat bar as well as improve the overall combat ability of a party.
-Medic - a master of the healing arts. Uses various medical techniques, as well as medicines made through Bio-Engineering to help heal the mortal wounds of comrades.
-Creature Handler - trainer of animals and aliens from throughout the Galaxy. Uses different animals for different purposes - tracking, foraging, as mountable steeds, and combat. Creatures can not excede certain sizes when in captivity, and cannot be sold to other players.
Should not be handled as a profession, but instead as an aspect of the PVP gameplay of SWG. As players participate in the Galactic Civil War, they begin to earn more recognition from all sides of the battle. Eventually, if a players accumulates enough hate from an opposing side, the game will place a bounty on that characters head. Any player can then accept a mssion to attempt to retrieve the bounty, and if successful, will be rewarded the Credits earned for the kill. Only people who accept the Bounty mission can PK the Bountyhead. If a player can go long periods without being PKed for a Bounty, and they "lay low" from the GCW, the bounty will begin to lower and eventually disperse. The timing on the Bounty is only active when a player is Online, so a player can't just sign off and wait for the bounty to disperse.
Players should be able to form Units of up to 6 players, and then form Raids up to 36 players. The current high number of players to form a single party makes it daunting to try and find a small group of players to group with. Think about it this way - With the exception of Obi Wan, the Millenium Falcon had a Unit of 6 - Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Artoo, and Threepio. They could then join up with the Rebel Alliance for a Raid. But they were still effective on their own.
Should not be handled as a profession; any player should be able to earn leadership XP, as long as they are the leader of a Unit or Raid. As a player's group wins more group vs. group PVP combats he earns more Leadership XP, which will grant him different group related abilities. This would also give players incentive to go out and form groups, since you have to be leader of a successful group to earn Leadership XP.
Tradeskills should be held seperate fromProfessions as Skills, and have an independent rate of growth from them, meaning a character doesn't have to "be" the Tradeskill Profession to earn XP for it.
Also, by making Tradeskills into skills, and not professions, you open the door for more players to become interested in Tradeskilling. This will help break any monopolies held by Tradeskill Only classes. Another good way to promote Tradeskilling is to limit a players Inventory capabilities. If a player cannot horde every item, then they will be forced to sell, drop, or Tradeskill with the item to make room in their inventory.
Every player should start with the jack of all trades Artisan Tradeskill. As a player gains tradeskill XP they can upgrade to the more refined tradeskills.
-Armorsmith - Specializes in higher quality armor for various forms of combat.
-Bio Engineer - Creates medical equipment for Medics to use, and creates feed and genetic supplements to help augment both players and Creature Handler pets for short periods of time.
-Chef - Creates many different foods with varying effects on the player.
-Droid Designer - Manufactures droids for various uses.
-Tailor - Creates various garments for formal, casual, or working occasions. Certain Professions should work better in Tailored clothing then crafted Armor.
-Weaponsmith - Creates the and upgrades many weapons for various combat, from Blasters to Swords.
Should be handled by in-game NPC's instead of as a Profession or Tradeskill. Credit costs from the Image Designer should be in proportion to the degree a change being made to a PC.
Pod Racing
To help balance the economy, the game can implement many credit-burning Money Sinks. For example, Players can have the ability to customize and build Pod Racers, then enter the Racer into a race for an amount of Credits. Pod Racers are only usable in Pod Races, and not for travel. Winning Players can be awarded with Points that can be spent at the Pod Race Track for valuable items that cannot be traded or sold. The Pod Races would be fun and addicting, and offer great items for players as incentive for playing. Racers can also ante Credit vs. each other so Credit earning is a possibility, but only for the best racers. Very little Credits are earned from this game, but as long as its fun players will play and spend their credits. And if they spend their credits, they will have to go tradeskill to earn some more.
Well, while leaving out some minor details, this is the bulk of my idea. I've been toying with it for a while now, and I believe this is it's fullest incarnation. If you enjoy any or all of this idea, please feel free to let me know. I can be reached in-game as Sln Harvest (that's an L in Sln) on the Bloodfin Galaxy.
Sln Harvest, Zabrak of Bloodfin
Hello,
Just a question: why the artisan profession don't have ability to put more than 10 deeds like a simple player???
exemple: when a artisan build a large house (6 slots) 2 or 1 wind or solar generator (1 slot) for energy he stay just 3 or 2slots for ressources
As the SE is being developed, this is my wish list for what I'd like to see:
For the Hardened Space-sim Veteran: Combat styles like the X-wing series of games (X-wing, Tie-Fighter, X-wing Vs. Tie-Fighter) where it's down to pure skill and your ability with a flight-stick.
For the Weekend Fly-boy (or girl): Combat styles like those in Freelancer, where you're essentially left to fend for yourself with a mouse, which would be accessible to all players without the possible extra cost of purchasing a flight-stick.
For the Strategist: Point and click, command based, RTS style, such as found in Eve Online.
Then there's the ships themselves, what tickles your fancy? Is it a run-down frighter, held together by a wing and a prayer, or a sleek interceptor raining down death from above? Then of course there is the Capitol ships. Fancy yourself as the Commander of an Interdictor? But how is it all going to be implemented? Should you be able to customise your ships? And if so, how?
If it were just left strictly to frieghters, transports, fighters, etc it would be simple enough, 2 of the 3 gaming styles above would be ideal. However, you toss Cap ships into the mix, and you start looking more toward style 3. Or do you forsee being able to enter a Cap ship, as if it were another enviornment, say like the space station in the tutorial part of the game? The possibilities are endless, but the practicalities are finite.
I personally would prefer to have the ships flyable via joystick, though I suppose it would be best IF it could be coded so that you had a choice of stick, mouse or KB. Then everyone would be happy, so to speak. Additionally, it would be possible to combine "twitch" with skill, if the skills wereto affect things such as special manouvers, ship operation, and attacks for dog-fighting.
A few examples of manouvers combined with dog-fighting skills would be:
- Countermeasure: to attempt to draw enemy missiles or torpedos from yourself
- Match Speed: a skilled pilot would be able to match his targets speed and therefore destroy it much quicker and easier
- Special Moves: perhaps have a series of offensive/defensive flight manouvers such as rolls and loops that could be used seperately or combined to allow you to escape your attacker and come in behind them or just simply dodge their fire. Think WW2 dogfights.. which is essentially what Lucas had in mind for the space battles in SW
- Specialised Targeting: Allows the pilot to target specific subsystems on a target, ie weapons, engine, wing, etc.
Operational ideas might include:
- Balancing: being able to set your power output to shields (if you have them of course) and weapons to maximise your attack or protection. While this should be allowed early on, perhaps the effectiveness or competence of the pilot would allow for this skill to increase via modifiers
- ECM: to make it more difficult for your ship to be targeted and seen accurately on rader. I could see this being especially important for freight runners who don't want any grief while running their cargo.
- ECCM: to cancel or diminish the effectiveness of your targets ECM
- Repairs: certain basic repairs could be done inflight, either via astromech droid or through some other subsystem.
- Jettison: If you need to drop cargo in order to make a fast get-away, or simply keep yourself from being destroyed
These are just a few ideas, and I'm sure the Devs have their own, but they would be nice to see none the less. Of course there's a whole realm of possibilities, but it will all be dependant on the system that is implemented.
Up until this week I ran a very successful Weaponsmithing business. However, I have recently decided to quit, as it is just not fun. The workload is simply horrendous, and only gets worse the more successful you get, regardless of your bank balance. I've seen many, many Elite Crafters quit recently, so I don't think I'm the only one who has these feelings. But this is by no means meant as a negative post.
I got to thinking what takes up large amounts of crafters time that can be made easier and/or more fun, but in keeping with game dynamics. I had a few thoughts which flowed and expanded into this idea:
A Miner Profession. Analysing resources is the most time consuming and laborious task for most crafters I'd guess. I certainly used to spend 5-10 hours per week planet hopping and sampling, which is very painstaking and boring. So I had a few idea's on what kind of facilities and skills could make this easier and more fun:
Global Surveying tree. This could give the Miner the ability to sample a much wider area for resource concentrations, culminating in being able to view the entire planetary map's concentration levels when reaching the top of the skill tree. This would enable miners to quickly identify general area's of high concentration, which he can travel to and then pinpoint the best mining spots in the same way as is currently possible.
Multiple Sampling tree. This could give the miner the ability to more quickly gather the statistics of a wide range of resource types. In order to analyse resources currently, you need to sample at least one unit of the resource to enter the data onto whatever database/spreadsheet is being used for analysis. This also means you need to find a 10%+ spot for each resource. If you're a Weaponsmith for example, you need to analyse every Mineral and Gas, plus most chemicals and some wood too. To do a full sweep of a planet takes around an hour even using the most efficient methods, and as all weaponsmiths know, you need to keep an eye on more than one planet to stand a chance at becoming successful. I am thinking maybe a specific tool can be used for this, and depending on the skill of the miner, a number of resources get statistics uploaded to said tool. This tool could then replace the laborious method of writing down all the properties to analyse offline, which is how I believe most (if not all) crafters currently calculate requirements. Maybe the miner could also have some way of sharing the data as well, by sending data objects (like Waypoints) to crafters so they can assess the data and match it with their own requirements.
Multiple mine management. Some way of remotely managing mines for maintenance and power, even collecting resources from the hoppers for you. Maybe droids could be used to good effect here. I know certainly at present if you have many mines going on different resources (and maybe different planets) it can be very time consuming to manage.
Obviously this kind of system would provide many shortcuts for crafters, which would enable them to spend more time crafting and running factories. Obviously such shortcuts would need to be balanced, so by all means make the mining profession expensive in both cash and XP terms (giving the Devs another big money sink too). The problem for crafters currently is usually time rather than money. I know I had millions of credits a day coming into my bank account, but no time to run the business properly. I'd have happily paid large sums of money if it had meant making my life easier.
I suppose the crux of it all is that many crafters like myself and quitting when they become successful. Your workload does nothing but increase the more successful you become, and all you have to show for it is a large bank account, which is pretty useless if you've not got the time to enjoy it. In my days of playing on 4-5 servers since the beta, I have seen many excellent crafters become famous and then quit. In a game where player-made items are the best out there, this can only harm the overall enjoyment of the game for everyone and will surely spell doom for the long term future of SW:G unless something is done. I'm sure you can find dozens of posts from crafters such as me who are shutting up shop, I've certainly seen a fair few.
I hope this post is seen in the constructive light it is intended to be, from a soon to be ex-crafter who wants to see this great game reach it's true potential. I also hope some of these idea's are taken into consideration by the Devs, and something is done before the balance of Crafters to Combat classes reaches a ratio where the game becomes unplayable for all.
1: Proper ranges on the weapons - a pistol can shoot as a far as a rifle, but is a littl more inaccurate? This should be changed such that pistols have a max range of 35m, carbines have 64m and rifles 100m (oh and turrets 150m) Pistols inside 20m should be lethal, Carbines should have have an extremely high rate of fire and be less accurate and damaging and Rifles should be practically impossible to hit with inside of 50m, but if they do hit, you'll be lucky to be still standing.
2. Less Creatures in the environment - Star wars is never about attacking rodents etc and just occasionally about the monster attacks. We need more pirates, gangs, outlaws, crazed bounty hunters, crimelords etc. They should all use ranged weaponry and this would turn combat for groups into starwars in seconds. If the best thing on Tatooine to hunt for was a crimelord and his gang (maybe in a fort, or with a turret etc) people would hunt that rather than squills. same goes for Naboo, Dantooine, correllia etc. Endor and Dathomir are fine and have exactly the sort of environment you'd expect for places off the main trade routes, but the mina places need more humanoids and less critters.
3. Trade between planets
Transferring goods from planet to planet should have a trade tax - be they weapons (highest tax) or just copper and iron lowest tax). And smugglers hould have a chance (only a chance) to avoid these taxes if they are willing to upset the local authorities.
as probably requested before...
the GCW needs a 3rd party pirate faction...
drixi c'rrto
