Dancer Archive
Thread: Reactions from the other correspondents?
NewJedi wrote:
Tanks, if you're still reading,I'm in the WoW beta too. Yes, it's a different game from SWG, but not fundamentally so.A major component of SWG, like WoW, is fighting bad guys to gain skill.That's true of virtually every MMORPG, andnone of them permit this process to be automated except SWG. I think it's pathetic that people masterBrawler or TKA while AFK. This simply doesn't happen in WoW, EQ, AC, DAoC, Lineage II (with exceptions that have led to banning), AO, Eve Online, Jumpgate, you name it.
Sure, SWG has a more involved crafting system than WoW. I've mastered a crafting profession (Bio-Engineer, not to mention Combat Medic), and I know the looping macro helps make the grind a little more tolerable. But wouldn't a better solution be to improve the SWG crafting interface? Or, even better, to make crafting more like combat, as EQ2 plans? The looping macro is a lazy way out. It gives the devs an excuse not to fix the game. We deserve better.
Sigrun wrote:
Huh? AC is the KING of 3rd party programs, including some pretty sophisticated ones that can figure out when to heal you, what's the best thing to attack, and what to loot / destroy. You can *completely* automate that game through 3rd party programs.
About 1.5 years ago or sothe CoC of the AC franchises was changed to forbid unattended gameplay. The reasoning behind this change in policy was because of the damage done to game balance by unattended play. Macro usage is still allowed but if a character is found to begaining experience while unattended it will be suspended from the game. This policy was put into effect while Microsoft was owner of the AC games and is still upheld by Turbine.
There are still buffbots in AC and it is still the opinion of many players that they disturb game balance.
Message Edited by Esharra on 08-04-2004 04:08 PM
Panthu said:
This was never an Entertainer Proposal of any kind from me, NewJedi, or Tiaga. All three of us have different feelings on the subject and always have, if you would actually read our replies you would see this.
Smuggler Caylin said:
I'll pop back in and affirm that I never saw this proposed by any correspondent.
The devs came out of the blue to ask about removing recursive macros, no correspondent I know was asking for this.
Tanks wrote:
The just devs chose the easiest approach to fix the AFK issue. (This statement I can agree with, they took the easy way out on fixing multiple game issues)
However, this (in my opinion) had to do with all of the entertainer correspondants bringing up the anti-AFK viewpoints over and over just about every week as the most critical problem with with Entertainer professions, coupled with the flame wars going on in the Entertainer profession related forums. (This statement is complete malicious crap. The entertainer correspondents have campaigned for many things, a little bit of content would be one of the main ones. And yes in the early days the AFK ents were the issue but it quickly went beyond that and the real issue was the bot issue. The small amount of content the ents had was being stolen from them by bots and this is what they wanted fixed.)
However, this (in my opinion) had to do with all of the entertainer correspondants bringing up the anti-AFK viewpoints over and over just about every week as the most critical problem with with Entertainer professions, coupled with the flame wars going on in the Entertainer profession related forums. (This statement is complete malicious crap. The entertainer correspondents have campaigned for many things, a little bit of content would be one of the main ones. And yes in the early days the AFK ents were the issue but it quickly went beyond that and the real issue was the bot issue. The small amount of content the ents had was being stolen from them by bots and this is what they wanted fixed.)
You haven't seen the posts on the Corr. forum, so you are in no position to judge. From what I had read my impression was that this was THE issue for the entertainment community. I wouldn't blame the devs for thinking the same way. If you have 10 posts on AFK bots and1-2 posts on other issues what would your impression would be?
Now, Panthu had some great suggestions on improving the profession in a way that people would seek the ATK entertainers instead of the AFK ones, but devs chose a different approach.
Tanks wrote:
However, this (in my opinion) had to do with all of the entertainer correspondants bringing up the anti-AFK viewpoints over and over just about every week as the most critical problem with with Entertainer professions, coupled with the flame wars going on in the Entertainer profession related forums. (This statement is complete malicious crap. The entertainer correspondents have campaigned for many things, a little bit of content would be one of the main ones. And yes in the early days the AFK ents were the issue but it quickly went beyond that and the real issue was the bot issue. The small amount of content the ents had was being stolen from them by bots and this is what they wanted fixed.)
You haven't seen the posts on the Corr. forum, so you are in no position to judge. From what I had read my impression was that this was THE issue for the entertainment community. I wouldn't blame the devs for thinking the same way. If you have 10 posts on AFK bots and1-2 posts on other issues what would your impression would be?
Now, Panthu had some great suggestions on improving the profession in a way that people would seek the ATK entertainers instead of the AFK ones, but devs chose a different approach.
It looks like you both agree here...as do I, as it seems like the ent corrs did. Bots are the biggest issue. And, the devs made a decision on it that a lot of people don't like.
Tanks wrote:However, this (in my opinion) had to do with all of the entertainer correspondants bringing up the anti-AFK viewpoints over and over just about every week as the most critical problem with with Entertainer professions, coupled with the flame wars going on in the Entertainer profession related forums.
I would say that in this case, the entertainer correspondents would be doing their job, as least NewJedi. As often as he explained to us that his polling of us suggested that there were various issues, not just the bot one, I can attest that over the past couple months (at least), the Musician forum has had about 98% of the threads on the first page dedicated to the bot/afk issue, or general mistrust that the devs cared about us at all. As someone designed to represent what we want to say, I would have expected him to be bringing up the issue a lot.
NewJedi: What fabulous news! I've been lobbying for this almost as long as I've been Correspondent. Heh, I never thought they'd actually listen. Wheeeee!
I didn't see you pipe in when Smuggler Caylin was talking about what they had NOT said.
Message Edited by Tanks on 08-04-200408:39 PM
Message Edited by Tanks on 08-04-2004 08:39 PM
Tanks wrote:tanks... have you received PERMISSION from the "entertainer corrs" to talk about what they said on the corr forum?I don't see any quotes from corr. forum on my posts. The subjects I am talking about are no secret, the corrs. in question have been keeping their community abreast of what has been going on.The only thing specific I mentioned was Newjedi's post that was from the Dancer forums.I didn't see you pipe in when Smuggler Caylin was talking about what they had NOT said.
So, I suggest you let them speak for themselves.Message Edited by Tanks on 08-04-2004 06:14 PM
tanks, they why not you let them speak for themselves, instead of saying what they have said? it's one thing to say that so-and-so *have* said something, another to say so-and-so *have not*. it's cool that you come onto the forum and state what you think about the changes, but it's not when you generalize what the entertainer corrs have been promoting into "oh, they hate afks and want them gone" in their own forum. the ent corrs have not been "bringing up the anti-AFK viewpoints over and over just about every week as the most critical problem with with Entertainer professions" on their own forums, so please let them tell their own forum what they've said.
"How would your community feel if you had to tie each flourish to a hotkey or the toolbar and had to cycle through them manually every 5secs for musicians and every 10 secs for the dancers?"
I already do that, thanks for your concern.
my viewpoint will remain this: if you need healing RIGHT THIS MOMENT and can't wait for a "professional" entertainer, pick up novice entertainer.
Message Edited by Pappi on 08-04-2004 06:48 PM
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Pappi wrote:
Tanks wrote:
tanks... have you received PERMISSION from the "entertainer corrs" to talk about what they said on the corr forum?
I don't see any quotes from corr. forum on my posts. The subjects I am talking about are no secret, the corrs. in question have been keeping their community abreast of what has been going on.
The only thing specific I mentioned was Newjedi's post that was from the Dancer forums.
I didn't see you pipe in when Smuggler Caylin was talking about what they had NOT said.
So, I suggest you let them speak for themselves.
Message Edited by Tanks on 08-04-2004 06:14 PM
tanks, they why not you let them speak for themselves, instead of saying what they have said? it's one thing to say that so-and-so *have* said something, another to say so-and-so *have not*. it's cool that you come onto the forum and state what you think about the changes, but it's not when you generalize what the entertainer corrs have been promoting into "oh, they hate afks and want them gone" in their own forum. the ent corrs have not been "bringing up the anti-AFK viewpoints over and over just about every week as the most critical problem with with Entertainer professions" on their own forums, so please let them tell their own forum what they've said.
"How would your community feel if you had to tie each flourish to a hotkey or the toolbar and had to cycle through them manually every 5secs for musicians and every 10 secs for the dancers?"
I already do that, thanks for your concern.
my viewpoint will remain this: if you need healing RIGHT THIS MOMENT and can't wait for a "professional" entertainer, pick up novice entertainer.
Message Edited by Pappi on 08-04-2004 06:48 PM
All I can say...is thanks to TANKS, we finally have some honest discussions going on here. When I started saying that I hold the correspondents of the entertainer professions responsible for this change, (and thus the communities they are representing), my statement was not based on a whim.
I have followed this issue closely for a long time...and read forums actively...
I have seen the HATE and VENOM coming from the entertainers for a long time...and in more depth when I recently went up and mastered dancer and musician.
When this post from th hit...I was on it immediately. The posts from corr's for all the entertainers show nothing but support and glee...up untill they started realizing the backlash that their professions now face. Then it became retroactive cries of "this is not what we asked for, and not what we wanted...whine whine whine."
You asked, pleaded, whined and cried enough to get TH and the Dev's to swing the nerf bat...something they've been rather cautious of doing since the BE/CH destructions recently.
Now the nerf bat is swinging...and its gonna affect all of us...and who is to blame?
Don't even think about blaming the afk'rs or the recursive macroers... The dev's already coded in a system to deal with the afk spammers....it comes down to one other primary concern...the afk buff bot.
and Thats been NewJedi's, Panthu's andTiaga's hot topic for months.
Reap what you sow...
Message Edited by hawkbatleader1 on 08-04-2004 08:13 PM