Dancer Archive
Thread: An end to the plague but-
picklesSW wrote:
Ok, we're getting somewhere. Is it now your opinion that forced interaction is fine so long as there are a few choices? I.E. it's ok to have to rely on other players to get your BF healed, so long as it's not just a single profession or mechanic that does it? So a similar thing to wounds, such as a camp or medical center slowly healing it as well as an entertainer, is sufficient?
From my perspective, that's always been my opinion on that topic.
BUT
Today, no such facility exists. Will one exist before the looping macros are gone?
AND, that is but one problem with removing looping macros. There are numerous others that also need to be addressed BEFORE LOOPING MACROS GO AWAY.
picklesSW wrote:
Ok, we're getting somewhere. Is it now your opinion that forced interaction is fine so long as there are a few choices? I.E. it's ok to have to rely on other players to get your BF healed, so long as it's not just a single profession or mechanic that does it? So a similar thing to wounds, such as a camp or medical center slowly healing it as well as an entertainer, is sufficient?
Absolutely. I believe it was Warryyr I was discussing this with yesterday, when I said I would completely support the change if something was done about BF. It's the only thing in this game that forces you to track down another person in order to continue playing. Right now the only other option is the "Bot", simply because of the numbers available.
Right. We're going around in circles at this point. I agree with you there. If you read what the devs are saying, I think they agree with you too. People are all up in a panic and the devs haven't had a chance to announce how they intend to accomplish this change, nor what other changes are to be wrapped up in it. What I'm fighting against is the knee-jerk reaction that the majority of the player base is experiencing. Rather than calmly point out "Ok, but this part of the game will really suffer, here's some ideas you may want to consider", you're coming here, yelling at entertainers and crying out about a perceived nerf that may or may not be real.
Give them a chance to do the right thing before you slam em. And perhaps just as important, please lighten up on entertainers. There's no question that this will benefit the social player, and we're perhaps the most vocal people supporting it, but they did not decide to do this solely because of us.
There's already some discussions underway about this very thing. Witness the thread about camps right on this forum, started by our own correspondent. I don't think they're turning a deaf ear here.
picklesSW wrote:
"AND, that is but one problem with removing looping macros. There are numerous others that also need to be addressed BEFORE LOOPING MACROS GO AWAY."
Right. We're going around in circles at this point. I agree with you there. If you read what the devs are saying, I think they agree with you too. People are all up in a panic and the devs haven't had a chance to announce how they intend to accomplish this change, nor what other changes are to be wrapped up in it. What I'm fighting against is the knee-jerk reaction that the majority of the player base is experiencing. Rather than calmly point out "Ok, but this part of the game will really suffer, here's some ideas you may want to consider", you're coming here, yelling at entertainers and crying out about a perceived nerf that may or may not be real.
Give them a chance to do the right thing before you slam em. And perhaps just as important, please lighten up on entertainers. There's no question that this will benefit the social player, and we're perhaps the most vocal people supporting it, but they did not decide to do this solely because of us.
I hope they do fix things.
My main concern is that you usually put up the net before going out on the high wire.. not after you've started falling. 
And to be honest.. The reaction of the entertainer classes has exactly been, "Great.. Now what will you do to help those negatively impacted by this?". In fact, some of the reactions to the original post (which I thought was great btw) were downright nasty.
picklesSW wrote:
"Absolutely. I believe it was Warryyr I was discussing this with yesterday, when I said I would completely support the change if something was done about BF."
There's already some discussions underway about this very thing. Witness the thread about camps right on this forum, started by our own correspondent. I don't think they're turning a deaf ear here.
Dreamland wrote:
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Dreamland wrote:
Your wasting your time even replying to this person javier, your talking to a brick wall made of ignorance.
Hey, I'm the guy who'll go out of his way to fight against changes that benefit me personally but screw over the community at large.
YOU'RE the person arguing for changes that enhance your gameplay but at the same time screw everyone else over.
Call me ignorant all you want. To me, you're looking pretty selfish and stubborn. /shrug
How do you know what im arguing for? you dont know anything about me. The only thing ive argued in any of my posts is that I want to see unatended play removed. This enhances everyones play as they dont have to deal with spammers, afk combat players parked in the middle of a spawn, and yes afk entertainers and buffbots.
Did you also know that i have combat characters as well? DId you know that i have crafting characters as well? Did you know i've done almost every combat profession in the game and am currently doing bounty hunter on another server? The most battle fatigue ive ever had is about 600, which came after about 3 hours of working on TKand taking a heavy beating from creatures the whole time in armor. You know what id have absolutely no problem flying back toa populated planetto heal that BFif there wasn't an entertainer on the planet i was on.
And if its 3 am and i can't find one at all for some reason, you know what, thats life its 3 in the morning and i dont expect people to play all night long just so i can finish leveling sooner.It would be EXTREMELY difficult to goget buffs at this point anyway because you know what, its prettyhard to find a master doctor buffing at 3 am too. What if i wanted to buy armor at 3 am and i couldnt find a stocked vendor or an armorsmith to make it for me, i guess id have to wait till tomorrow to do it, thats the nature of this game its designed to have people depending on eachother. When its working corectly without people abusing the macro system to play unatended (which was never an intention of the developers) there are going to be inconveniences. Learn to live with it or go play a FPS.
picklesSW wrote:
Cut us a bit of slack if you can, we're really not bad people here, and at the end of the day, we need you as much as you need us.
...
SmedleyLlama wrote:
First.. You're interacting with the vendor.. not the weaponsmith. Just as when I bought this computer I was interacting with a salesman and not the factory. But back to where we left off....
I have no desire to remove the entertainers from the game. All reliance on entertainers.. Yes. There should be alternatives. Just as there is for the weaponsmith.
Or are you suggesting that the only way to get a weaponshould be totrack down a weaponsmith and wait while he crafts it for you?
Assuming you're talking about buffs here, all reliancemeans that the only way to get a musician or dancer buff would be to visit a dancer or musician. This is true now, be it a player who is at the keyboard, or a buff bot. The original point of this thread is that those of us who are going to continue as musicians and/or dancers need to take up the slack now that the devs have taken a stand against afk bots of all types. This is a huge issuewith a lot of people because, as the original poster said, finding someone to buff you is often a job in itself. Personally, I blame a lot of this problem on afk bots from the start. If entertainers weren't able to set up recursive macros and go afk for hours on end (non-buffbots and grinders), other people wouldn't feel as compelled to make their own toons with recursive macros for the specific purpose of buffing in the first place. Sure, there are lots of people who never used macros to grind out these professions, but there are lots more who have, and it's very easy for them to set it up and walk away. I can't tell you how many times I've been in Theed cantina performing, trying to talk to my "follow performers" in group and/or spatial, and the only response I got was, " "(nothing).
As it stands now, the only way to get a doctor buff is to go visit a doctor, oftenhaving towait in line (up to 30 minutes or more insome cases)for the desired buffs (yes, I know there are also some doctor buffbots out there, but these are more rare for various reasons, required crafted components, harder to write macro etc). There are no alternatives to doctor buffs. You can't just visit a vendor and click the magic buff button and get yourself buffed. What I don't understand is why people feel the need to request this for entertainer buffs.
In my experience, I am at the keyboard more often than not (everyone needs to step away here and there for one reason or another). I have a few groups of regulars that seek me out for buffs. Many times they ask me to come and perform at a base so they can all get buffed to defend it. I am more than happy to do so, and often I bring a friend to help (one of us will dance while the other will play music). What I usually get is a 3 hour quickness buff (for free just for showing up) which lasts 2 hours over the time they need me, and a good sum of money for traveling out and helping them. Other times, they will visit me where I am, I'll get the same quickness buff, and again, a good sum of money. So yes, there are people out there who don't want to have to rely on buffbots to get their mind buffs.
In conclusion, with recursive macros going away, musicians and dancers need to make a presence in the community and be willing to help others. Some will step forward, others will not. Those that do, and do so pleasantly, will have a positive and profitable gaming experience. Those that do, and do so spitefully, will have a negative and unprofitable gaming experience as everyone will go to the former. Those that don't will either just be viewed as part of the original problem causing the desire for bots,and most likelyget bored and leave the profession or leave the game entirely.
Klayton
Master Entertainer/Musician/Dancer
Shadowfire
Message Edited by Sigrun on 08-04-2004 02:01 PM
Sigrun wrote:
There are other alternatives. Alternatives to enhance entertainers that do not negatively impact other professions and that don't amplify the tedium of the game.[...] Why not fight for enhancements for ATK entertainers instead of this, as was being espoused pretty strongly on the thread from which I drew this quote?
Reminder: This change is not being done for the entertainers. Removing recurisve macros is an attempt to stop all unattended play. Buffbots and sample bots and meatlump campers and cave campers and so on. Entertainers are merely the most visible of the unatended players.
Any change that enhances ATK entertainers will not do what the Devs are trying to do, which is remove unattended gameplay. Or at least make it harder to do.
Nacoa wrote:
Sigrun wrote:
There are other alternatives. Alternatives to enhance entertainers that do not negatively impact other professions and that don't amplify the tedium of the game.[...] Why not fight for enhancements for ATK entertainers instead of this, as was being espoused pretty strongly on the thread from which I drew this quote?
Reminder: This change is not being done for the entertainers. Removing recurisve macros is an attempt to stop all unattended play. Buffbots and sample bots and meatlump campers and cave campers and so on. Entertainers are merely the most visible of the unatended players.
Any change that enhances ATK entertainers will not do what the Devs are trying to do, which is remove unattended gameplay. Or at least make it harder to do.
Nacoa wrote:
Reminder: This change is not being done for the entertainers. Removing recurisve macros is an attempt to stop all unattended play. Buffbots and sample bots and meatlump campers and cave campers and so on. Entertainers are merely the most visible of the unatended players.
Sigrun wrote:
There are other alternatives. Alternatives to enhance entertainers that do not negatively impact other professions and that don't amplify the tedium of the game.[...] Why not fight for enhancements for ATK entertainers instead of this, as was being espoused pretty strongly on the thread from which I drew this quote?
Any change that enhances ATK entertainers will not do what the Devs are trying to do, which is remove unattended gameplay. Or at least make it harder to do.
Unfortunately it does nothing to cure the underlying causesof thisunattended gameplay. I think the quoted post was advocating actions that fix the causes rather than the symptoms.