Dancer Archive
Thread: In Development: Recursive Macros are going away.
ArgentWulf
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:49 am
#92
Av-limil wrote:
Glad I cancelled.
Well we agree on something at least.
As far as power leveling to the others posting in this thread, why? Take your time learn your craft. That way when you earn the Master tags you will have "earned" them. There is no "endgame" here its all about the experience. If you don't enjoy the ride you probably won't like the destination either.
kirah_ashlin
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:50 am
#93
PhoenixStar wrote:
I don't know how long some of you have been here, but many of you don't sound like you know what you're talking about at all. The first month of this game EVERYONE was using macros to level through dancer/musician and most didn't even know how to loop macros. We just wrote long scripts, and went afk when we needed to. Those of you using this skewed argument about everyone being afk and not being able to be social anymore are full of it. If you really enjoyed the cantina the way I and many others did, you'd still be there regardless. AFK entertainers have been around since this game was released, so you were either there enjoying yourself at the same time, or you were never there at all.
Removing recursive macros will just mean longer macros and coming back to see if your macro is still running every few hours, it's not solving anything. What really needs to change is the tedious tasks involved with leveling through each profession. Maybe if it was more involving and entertaining people wouldn't resort to using a macro. Anyone who says that got to master dancer/musician without the use of a macro is a pitiful liar. This is as bad as the CH nerf of the past whenmany master CHs were jumping for joy that those below them wouldn't have the advantage of using a high level creature to speed through CH the way they themselves did.
I could see if they were going to wipe all of the servers and make everyone start from scratch(after they fixed all of the bugs and finished "balancing" the classes), but since they aren't it's just going to be tedious for all of the new players. Those of us who have been around a long time and have mastered our classes can sit around on high horses and pretend we had some sort of struggle, but all this is doing is ensuring that new players will leave. Two of my friends quit within the same week they started because of the tediousness involved with leveling in this game. Fix that before tackling the AFK macroing issue, and I can assure you all that more people will be playing.
This is will not change a thing in cantinas, I doubt they'll ever be the same as they used to be. Those of us that were there, and still are there do it because we actually like chatting there. A few bots can't stop you from doing that as the ignore feature is so easy to use. I graduated from BS 101, so I'm pretty sure I've erradicated that excuse. My work here is done.
I find it amazing when people make absurd claims that they know what each and everyplayer in the game has done, is doing or will do. You don't know that everyone used macros from the beginning so kindly don't make outlandish statements like that.
PhoenixStar
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:52 am
#94
Wow lol, you're calling me lazy which is assuming you know that I've always used a macro while dancing.I didn't say that I left it running the entire time.
First off, I've never been interested in becoming a jedi so I didn't use macros for that. I do use macros when I go afk for many reasons. The main reason being so my dancer can help those who play late at night, I also use my macros so I can keep the show going even though I've played long enough. If you enjoy staring at the same actions day in and day out for hours on end, good for you. I've been playing this game for over a year now and you obviously have not, so let me know what you think about afk macros after you've actually had some experience with the game. It only takes 2 weeks to master dancer without macros, and I've played on every server with and without macros. Unlike the liars, I'm not afraid to admit it. Macros are apart of this game and quite frankly they make the tediousness a little more bareable. You'll see that when you play a few more characters on different servers with no help from anyone.
There isn't really that much to do in this game once you master your professions and that's the problem that needs to be fixed. I'm sorry you can't see that. If they want to remove recursive macros, fine it won't effect me at all, it won't effect the current state of the game either.
Oh well, the jaded always assume quick fixes will help the game.
Seriously though, there's a big difference between playing this game for a few months and playing it for a year doing the same thing over and over again. It gets boring, but people still need my dancer even when I don't feel like playing, my macro helps when I don't have time to play. There's nothing lazy about it. I really do not understand why control freaks feel the need to make everyone play the way they want to play. If you don't like macroing, don't use one...though I seriously doubt anyone who started after the first 3 months has not used an afk macro to grind away in some class. Just look at every jedi on every server, if you believe none of them used an afk macro you are sadly mistaken.
kirah_ashlin
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:01 am
#95
PS,you are assuming that those of us who are FOR the removal of the recursive macro have only been playing for a few months. I've bene playing a dancer since October and several of the forum members who are in agreementwith the removalwere already masters then! Please do roll out the "I've been doing this longer so I know better than you" attitude on us, okay?
ArgentWulf
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:02 am
#96
Hold on right there bucko! I have played this game since the first week so dont even go there with your blanket statement!
PhoenixStar wrote:
. . .. I've been playing this game for over a year now and you obviously have not,
Seriously though, there's a big difference between playing this game for a few months and playing it for a year . .
Different people have different play styles. Do not assume you know all there is to know about us.
Erawia_D
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:03 am
#97
Part of the reason we don't hang out in Lag-o-net or Theed is that it is as completly boring for entertainers to be surrounded by AFK robots as it is for combat players to get buffed by one. On top of that, it gets even MORE boring due to the fact that most of the combat players now:
1. Run into the cantina directly to master buffbots.
2. Go AFK for their buffs.
3. Are completely surprised to come back when their buff is done and find that an ATK entertainer actually tried to talk to them.
After oh, say, a week of that, I agree it *IS* pointless and boring to hang out and dance in the cantinas, so we go to find something that will make *our* gameplay more fun.
You don't see US complaining "OH, there isn't ever a combat player around to buff so I can get my tips NOW, during the off hours. I want my tip, and I want it at MY convenience, 23/7".
Dantooine is the WORST. 1- Most players in the tavern don't tip for heals. 2- Most players in the tavern think ALL entertainers are AFK.
I've done almost all my entertaining ATK, except for food and bathroom breaks. A lot of people forget that some of us get the enjoyment out of the JOURNEY, and are not fixated on the goal. The time spent entertaining, is usually just that, ENTERTAINING. Its not a GRIND. It doesn't have to be a GRIND. And when we get master, its very VALUABLE and a great SUCCESS; we've done our job, ENTERTAINED as an ENTERTAINER profession, and enjoyed the journey.
I'm still not Master Dancer, and you know what? So what? I've still got something to look forward to.
The docs and medic centers have been hurt by macros as well- tumblers with a bunch of people leveling medic in 3 hours. The grinders will often ignore players who come in to have their wounds healed; either that or the medics that are trying to PLAY the game it was designed, by NOT using tumblers, can't compete with the grinders. God forbid you try to RP a doc and actually TALK to players...
I sometimes even enjoy the starport waits..
1. Run into the cantina directly to master buffbots.
2. Go AFK for their buffs.
3. Are completely surprised to come back when their buff is done and find that an ATK entertainer actually tried to talk to them.
After oh, say, a week of that, I agree it *IS* pointless and boring to hang out and dance in the cantinas, so we go to find something that will make *our* gameplay more fun.
You don't see US complaining "OH, there isn't ever a combat player around to buff so I can get my tips NOW, during the off hours. I want my tip, and I want it at MY convenience, 23/7".
Dantooine is the WORST. 1- Most players in the tavern don't tip for heals. 2- Most players in the tavern think ALL entertainers are AFK.
I've done almost all my entertaining ATK, except for food and bathroom breaks. A lot of people forget that some of us get the enjoyment out of the JOURNEY, and are not fixated on the goal. The time spent entertaining, is usually just that, ENTERTAINING. Its not a GRIND. It doesn't have to be a GRIND. And when we get master, its very VALUABLE and a great SUCCESS; we've done our job, ENTERTAINED as an ENTERTAINER profession, and enjoyed the journey.
I'm still not Master Dancer, and you know what? So what? I've still got something to look forward to.
The docs and medic centers have been hurt by macros as well- tumblers with a bunch of people leveling medic in 3 hours. The grinders will often ignore players who come in to have their wounds healed; either that or the medics that are trying to PLAY the game it was designed, by NOT using tumblers, can't compete with the grinders. God forbid you try to RP a doc and actually TALK to players...
I sometimes even enjoy the starport waits..
Telerios
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
#99
I'm happy for the Entertainers/Dancers/Musician profession. My wife cancled her account a while ago and she was a Master Entertainer/Musician/Dancer when the AFK thing started to get out of hand.
Ever since then I made it a personal thing never to get buffs/BF Healing from any entertainer who is obviously always AFK/AFK Bot.
Ever since then I made it a personal thing never to get buffs/BF Healing from any entertainer who is obviously always AFK/AFK Bot.
PhoenixStar
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:26 am
#100
Telerios wrote:
I'm happy for the Entertainers/Dancers/Musician profession. My wife cancled her account a while ago and she was a Master Entertainer/Musician/Dancer when the AFK thing started to get out of hand.
Ever since then I made it a personal thing never to get buffs/BF Healing from any entertainer who is obviously always AFK/AFK Bot.
If your wifeenjoyed socially interacting in this game they'd still be doing it and no macro could stop her. Did she dislike the spam? There's an ignore feature. Removing recursive macros will not kill a single buff bot. All they need is a longer macro, and the more ingenious players will find new ways to create recursive macros within the boundries of the game itself. You think removing one command will change that? It'll only stop a few players who only know that one command, many others do not and have not used it to create a recursive macro.
First you have aliases, then you have macros writtin in game, use your imagination. The only way to stop afk macroing is to remove the macroing system altogether which will do more harm than good. This vocal minority does not represent the large number of players who will quit when this goes into effect. The only reason I continue to play is because when I'm not playing I know I can still get my money's worth by having my character in game when I do not have time to play.
I think your wife just got bored of the game. Anyone who supposedly quit over players using afk macros needs to take a step back and realize they were no longer enjoying themselves. AFK macros have been used since the first week the game was released. You could see AFK over the heads of many players within the first week even before recursive macros became widespread people were writing long macros so they could go afk. So it's not the bots, it's the game itself. If you really like this game and want to fix it, petition for that, rally for that, create ideas for that. Try to push for some creativity to be thrown into the game before removing things that make it less tedious.
ResourceMonkey
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:38 am
#101
The only difference this will make is that it will have people writing 200-500 line macros (you can cut/paste in the game - just have to assign your keys in a certain way in the game that I don't know) that they will need to reinitiate everyso often. So people will still be semi-AFK (reading a book, watching a show, playing something on SEGA, etc.) and just have to hit the F12 key every 10 minutes.
Wendelius
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:44 am
#102
PhoenixStar wrote:If your wife enjoyed socially interacting in this game they'd still be doing it and no macro could stop her.
PhoenixStar,
Your comments in this thread demonstrate a singular lack of knowledge of what entertainment is about for people who want to be entertainers.
Everybody used macros (to skill up, as opposed as to put on a performance while being ATK and interacting)? Ask some people here who've been playing since the start or NewJedi, the Musician Correspondant who has been playing since day 1. I've only played for 4 months after release and the past 2 and half months but, and sorry if this seems like too short a period of time for you, I haven't felt the need to progress AFK. None of my new chars are masters yet (I have 2 progressing through musician and dancer) and I don't care. I'm enjoying the jounrey ATK twice.
Similarly, how can you tell what the other poster's wife did and didn't enjoy? Do you know her better than him maybe?
All that's happening here is that you've decided that the change is bad and you're trying to convince people by spouting frighteningly inaccurate blanket statements.
Give this change a chance. If it helps make the profession a more enjoyable one, it means that entertainers will be having a better time. It will show when they talk to their customers and new players in hopefully relatively AFK free entertainment and it's quite likely that more players will be tempted to join the ranks. This is, after all, a profession that makes SWG different from most graphical MMOG's out there.
Similarly, PA's will no doubt be more supportive of their entertainers if their services become more valuable.
If it's not a profession you enjoy actually playing (vs. pretending to play), then don't. Others will do it for you. But please stop trying to convince us that you know all about entertaining, how to play it and what is fun for an entertainer when you have demonstrated that you don't.Message Edited by Wendelius on 08-02-2004 05:45 PM
PhoenixStar
Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:59 am
#103
Wendelius wrote:
PhoenixStar wrote:
If your wife enjoyed socially interacting in this game they'd still be doing it and no macro could stop her.
PhoenixStar,
Your comments in this thread demonstrate a singular lack of knowledge of what entertainment is about for people who want to be entertainers.
Everybody used macros (to skill up, as opposed as to put on a performance while being ATK and interacting)? Ask some people here who've been playing since the start or NewJedi, the Musician Correspondant who has been playing since day 1. I've only played for 4 months after release and the past 2 and half months but, and sorry if this seems like too short a period of time for you, I haven't felt the need to progress AFK. None of my new chars are masters yet (I have 2 progressing through musician and dancer) and I don't care. I'm enjoying the jounrey ATK twice.
Similarly, how can you tell what the other poster's wife did and didn't enjoy? Do you know her better than him maybe?
All that's happening here is that you've decided that the change is bad and you're trying to convince people by spouting frighteningly inaccurate blanket statements.
Give this change a chance. If it helps make the profession a more enjoyable one, it means that entertainers will be having a better time. It will show when they talk to their customers and new players in hopefully relatively AFK free entertainment and it's quite likely that more players will be tempted to join the ranks. This is, after all, a profession that makes SWG different from most graphical MMOG's out there.
Similarly, PA's will no doubt be more supportive of their entertainers if their services become more valuable.
If it's not a profession you enjoy actually playing (vs. pretending to play), then don't. Others will do it for you. But please stop trying to convince us that you know all about entertaining, how to play it and what is fun for an entertainer when you have demonstrated that you don't.
Message Edited by Wendelius on 08-02-2004 05:45 PM
You're the one making blanket statements by using plural words to make it sound as if you speak for the whole. It's obvious that players who are in game do not agree with this vocal minority or there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. If everyone wanted these macros gone, you wouldn't see so many afk players. I've already watched many quick fixes take place in this game and they've fixed nothing. If you truely are trying to help repair this game, then push to make it more entertaining for all, instead ofridingthis high horse of "I haven't used anAFKmacro, and no one else should either". No one would if the game had more to do, sadly it doesn't and if you want to make it anywhere then you need ALOT of free time or an afk macro. Period. You can't have it both ways, don't pretend you can have a successful character with average free time without the use of a macro. Logging in the game to hit flourish after flourish or repeat lair after lair is not exactly satisfying.
Adding high end content that cannot be botted through will give people a reason to play, making the low end more repetitative is a waste of time and money which is why I'm against yet another quick fix that will not solve anything. They could be working on large scale events but instead this crap is the new hot topic, but yet there's something wrong with those of us who are against this because this is so important to creating fun and involving gameplay. If this goes in, it will not change a thing, it will however turn out to be time wasted that could have been used for new content.
Congratulations on your win, making players write longer macros was so worth the effort.
Doriana
Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:11 am
#104
Neutronos wrote:I doubt any of you dancers / musicians who already mastered this did it without any use of macros. Cmon tell me im wrong.Offcourse you didnt use macros. It just so easy not to.
I didn't.
I still don't, except for doing buffs, because for buffing function is more important than form -- I respect the customer's need for efficiency.
I'm also levelling a new dancer (don't play it too much) on a different server without using macros, again.
If you don't like it, don't do it. But don't belittle those of us who do like it and ruin our gameplay.