Dancer Archive
Thread: In Development: Recursive Macros are going away.
Tirgwystraff
Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:22 am
#79
1) I have never used a macro of any kind to grind a crafting profession. I have done all of them except DE and Architect. I have done armorsmith 5 times now. The first time, I didn't know you oculd hit enter or double click to get all the resources in. I dragged and clicked alot
I'm almost done leveling a bio engineer ( for the second time, she was my weaponsmith prior to this). This isn't a big deal to me. I didn't have to grind my very first armorsmith, she sold her way up. My tailor has never ground anything, just stocking her vendor properly mastered her.
I'm almost done leveling a bio engineer ( for the second time, she was my weaponsmith prior to this). This isn't a big deal to me. I didn't have to grind my very first armorsmith, she sold her way up. My tailor has never ground anything, just stocking her vendor properly mastered her.2) I HAVE used macros whileATK to master my first dancer ( she in now a tailor/armorsmith). This was during the hologrind. I still had plenty of people to chat with. I created a musician on Shadowfire recently. Some atk, some afk , but never any freaking pathetic heal me tip me spam. The macros make it easier to have conversations. You have to have constant flourishes in order to get any xp. If you're doing it by hand, you can't socialize much.
3) If they made cantinas slow heal, the way medical centers are, then off peak players can be taken care of too. My Intrepid armorsmith is now a smuggler/doctor. She spends alot of time in med centers. Alot of people come in, plop down on a bed, then go afk for a few minutes. Players ARE NOT required to have a medic heal any of their wounds. They can choose to have a medic heal them, as it's alot faster, but it ain't required. Take away too many afkers ( too many empty cantinas), and I can guarantee this is the route SOE will take.
4) If you think SOE is going to actually hunt down 3rd party users, and actually BAN them, you are out of your mind. How many scammers can I name off the top of my head, with multiple reports, and are still walking around?? Heck, they didn't even bother to change 'bank 's name!!! He is also BruceLee and -ix-. 3 accounts ( Intrepid). Did they ban him? Scammed for 10s of millions of credits? Frequent ADMITTED scammer of newbies? Even after a conversation with him, where he admitted it in game, and the /report feature used bya couplepeople, he got
wait for it
a 2 day ban!
How many dupers are still around? How many banned for exploiting schematics?? It killed the tailor market, when less than scrupulous tailors made a whole lot of backpacks and aprons with the same serial numbers
Even after /reporting them, they're still around. A simple vendor check ought to have gotten them banned. ( The vendor I reported had8 of the same crafting apron, same serial number). They could easily use any old leather, so of course they cut the market down. Aprons are now selling for less than a 10 series of leathers go for at auction. Several weaponsmiths got busted for it, and what happened? An obvious exploit, that killed a market, and how many permabanned? NONE. I had unserialed krayt scales from the last go around of drops ( several months ago). I have never used them, even though I could have profited greatly from it ( take a wild guess what 80% kinetic krayt ubese goes for).
Even after /reporting them, they're still around. A simple vendor check ought to have gotten them banned. ( The vendor I reported had8 of the same crafting apron, same serial number). They could easily use any old leather, so of course they cut the market down. Aprons are now selling for less than a 10 series of leathers go for at auction. Several weaponsmiths got busted for it, and what happened? An obvious exploit, that killed a market, and how many permabanned? NONE. I had unserialed krayt scales from the last go around of drops ( several months ago). I have never used them, even though I could have profited greatly from it ( take a wild guess what 80% kinetic krayt ubese goes for).Many people use 3rd party macros NOW for crafting. Something about mouse pointer position, and an ACTools macro People were using it before they discovered ingame afk surveying macros ( and before SOE posted that afk macros were ok).
People were using it before they discovered ingame afk surveying macros ( and before SOE posted that afk macros were ok).
QuixoticJedi1
Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:25 am
#80
I go away for the weekend and come back to this...wow! I need to go away more often.
Despite all of the whining, mostly due to folks not liking challenge or change, this is a great change - for all professions. It puts a lot more value on Doctor or Dancer or Musician or whatever to know that it wasn't acheived by simply starting up your macro and taking a nap. Kudos to the developers.
Iarian
Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:26 am
#81
I'm very mixed about this....
I somehow don't see buffbots going away..... They will find away around it... Like write a long macro and then they only need to check it every once in a while...
Also - I've seen some others say this - but I'm going to repeat anyways... I see this hurting the 3 minute buff - I have people who are willing to pay more for the 3 minute buff.
I also have a macro that I set up with flourishes and changedances - it took quite a while to write to get it to work smooth enough.. I have this macro so I can chat with people and give them a nice performace.... /shrug
and yes
from another stand point -
My crafting for Doctor is going to get hurt by this and my other character is going to get hurt by this.... /shrug
JohnMarble
Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:49 am
#82
How? You don't need a recursive macro to buff somebody. You just need to write a more efficient macro. Make one with 120 flourishes and pauses in the proper places. Tiaga has a post that should help you adapt.
Iarian wrote:
I'm very mixed about this....
Also - I've seen some others say this - but I'm going to repeat anyways... I see this hurting the 3 minute buff - I have people who are willing to pay more for the 3 minute buff.
Knight776
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:16 am
#83
Neutronos wrote:
...
Anyone of you guys who are in favour of this try and master Musician FROM SCRATCH without a looping macro. Is that your idea of FUN?! HEll why not just do dancer again while doing musician then youll get all that action you guys are so fond off. Its a hoot!...
I mastered Entertainer twice and Dancer once ATK and macro free. And, except for the times where I found myself competing with 40+ AFK zombies or had someone park a Master-tagged bot next to me and proceeded to siphon off experience that I could use and *it* could not, I had fun with the profession.
The type of attitude I'm seeing astounds me (and it really shouldn't....I've seen it before). You have a large number of people who actually want to PLAY the profession, but people would rather pay their $15/month or more to be entertained by someone that isn't even there.
I can certainly relate that this will cause some issues for the crafting professions (take a look....I had to do it myself). But, for a profession set that was facing extinction due to the prevalence of the bot brigade and that half of the profession set could be Mastered unattended, I think we'll see a resurgence of people coming back (myself being one of them, possibly).
Xyrdre
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:34 am
#84
Neutronos wrote:
I doubt any of you dancers / musicians who already mastered this did it without any use of macros. Cmon tell me im wrong.
Offcourse you didnt use macros. It just so easy not to.
You're wrong.
I've never used a macro, even for buffing. And my LIVE Entertainment guild will, and has, kicked it's members for AFK leveling. We know it's a cheat and an exploit.
Just because you or others have no patience doesn't mean that everyone simply goes for the easiest route. Some of us know that the path taken is far more valuable than the end of the journey. And we're more skilled for it in the end.
Av-limil
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:45 am
#85
kirah_ashlin wrote:
I've scanned over some of the pages beyond my own post in TH's thread andone thing that I find disheartening is the number of players saying that the entertainment profession should be done away with altogether and made into NPCs . . . . . sigh. That to me is the sign ofultimate selfishness in this playerbase - the "screw everyone else because I"M the most important player in this game" mentality. My only comfort is that most of these players probably have their monthy accounts funded by mommy and daddy . . .
Actually, the responses in this thread strike me as quite selfish. "Damage the gameplay of most of the rest of the playerbase b/c we're mad we can't compete with a buffbot." Doesn't that strike you as pretty pathetic that you can't compete with a buffbot? I'll tell you why you can't compete...most of the playerbase doesn't like you (entertainers). We don't like your entire personality type, in RL orin games. Buffbots have the remarkable property that they DON'T try to talk to us. What do you really think you gain by lowering the # of buffbots? (there will still be plenty out there, almost everyone who has done a crafting prof knows how to use a 3rd party macro program). You'll just have some customers that don't want to talk to you. Yeah, you'll make a few creds, but its pocketchange and you could make a lot more doing just about anything else in the game.
People do want entertainers to go away, but most of us don't want NPCs....we want BF to go away and mind be made just like health and action (or just done away with). BF and differentiating mind were two broken, stupid mechanics to try to justify a use for entertainers.
In short, what do you gain? A few more customers that don't like you, and avery fewcreds to go with it. A few less afk dancers in your cantinas, but with the ability to turn off their spam now I don't see the problem.
What do you lose? You (entertainers) don't lose a whole lot, a bit of convenience for yourselves. The playerbase in general loses a lot though (thats already been detailed in many posts).
End result: Sacrificing the needs of the many for the needs of the few (<cough> reminiscent of Jedi anyone? lol <cough>
Congratulations. Your whines just helped make the game worse. Glad I cancelled.
Xyrdre
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:49 am
#86
FadedLeatherJacket wrote:
I get much more enjoyment out of the game and the grind has been less tedious being able to get a buff when I need it. I don't care if the bots are afk *or* that they are making fortunes. The only thing I care about is the quality of my gaming experience... and I enjoy it much more buffed. I do NOT enjoy searching high and low for a doc or entertainer to buff me.
All you care about is the quality of YOUR gaming experience, and not a whit about the near-destruction of our professions and our playstyle. Hmmm... such a coincidence. Do you think anyone cares about the comfort of your grind?
If you really doenjoy your gaming experience so much more when you're buffed, you might consider a little... sucking up, rather than smack-talking, of your entertainers.
I really hope that entertainers on your galaxy hear the things that some of you people have to say about us. Heh... offend all your entertainers, and then see how easy it is to get your precious mind buffs. Go public about how much you hate docs and could care less about their fun or profits... get famous for saying those things. Wonder if you'd end up with any buffs at all.
People just don't think...
Av-limil
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:54 am
#87
Knight776 wrote:
but people would rather pay their $15/month or more to be entertained by someone that isn't even there.
Precisely, b/c its a bit more convenient. Please understand that to a good portion of the playerbase, you are nothing more than a means to an end. We need BF reduced and mind wounds healed, we could care less whether the player is AFK or ATK, b/c it all works the same. In fact, I actually prefer AFK, that way they don't try to talk to me (although I rarely respond anyway). Its a couple minute stop in the cantina to deal with a silly game mechanic, nothing more.
Warryyr
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:55 am
#88
KDubDanzig wrote:
This sucks I think. I go to the buffbot near Cnet all the time for mind buffs. I can never find an entertainer to give mind buffs that is not afk.
That is exactly what this change is trying to fix. What's your point?
Discourage AFK playing means the entertainers around will more than likely be at the keyboard. Meaning, you'll actually FIND someone to buff you. Returning our services to a valuable commodity in the playerbase may very well encourage more folks to play entertainers - I mean, really play them, not bot them.
PhoenixStar
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:05 am
#89
I don't know how long some of you have been here, but many of you don't sound like you know what you're talking about at all. The first month of this game EVERYONE was using macros to level through dancer/musician and most didn't even know how to loop macros. We just wrote long scripts, and went afk when we needed to. Those of you using this skewed argument about everyone being afk and not being able to be social anymore are full of it. If you really enjoyed the cantina the way I and many others did, you'd still be there regardless. AFK entertainers have been around since this game was released, so you were either there enjoying yourself at the same time, or you were never there at all.
Removing recursive macros will just mean longer macros and coming back to see if your macro is still running every few hours, it's not solving anything. What really needs to change is the tedious tasks involved with leveling through each profession. Maybe if it was more involving and entertaining people wouldn't resort to using a macro. Anyone who says that got to master dancer/musician without the use of a macro is a pitiful liar. This is as bad as the CH nerf of the past whenmany master CHs were jumping for joy that those below them wouldn't have the advantage of using a high level creature to speed through CH the way they themselves did.
I could see if they were going to wipe all of the servers and make everyone start from scratch(after they fixed all of the bugs and finished "balancing" the classes), but since they aren't it's just going to be tedious for all of the new players. Those of us who have been around a long time and have mastered our classes can sit around on high horses and pretend we had some sort of struggle, but all this is doing is ensuring that new players will leave. Two of my friends quit within the same week they started because of the tediousness involved with leveling in this game. Fix that before tackling the AFK macroing issue, and I can assure you all that more people will be playing.
This is will not change a thing in cantinas, I doubt they'll ever be the same as they used to be. Those of us that were there, and still are there do it because we actually like chatting there. A few bots can't stop you from doing that as the ignore feature is so easy to use. I graduated from BS 101, so I'm pretty sure I've erradicated that excuse. My work here is done. 
Xyrdre
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:36 am
#90
PhoenixStar wrote:
Anyone who says that got to master dancer/musician without the use of a macro is a pitiful liar.
You are sadly misinformed. Sorry you can't imagine enjoying playing an entertainer all the way. It's called patience, and using that leveling time to greatest advantage. And not trying to do it all at once... yes, it takes somesanitybreaks outside of the cantina. I've never heard of a dancer who never had a day off; it fits the mold just fine.
Oh well, the lazy always assume everyone else is like them.
Shidi-Rommu
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:43 am
#91
Xyrdre wrote:
PhoenixStar wrote:
Anyone who says that got to master dancer/musician without the use of a macro is a pitiful liar.
You are sadly misinformed. Sorry you can't imagine enjoying playing an entertainer all the way. It's called patience, and using that leveling time to greatest advantage. And not trying to do it all at once... yes, it takes somesanitybreaks outside of the cantina. I've never heard of a dancer who never had a day off; it fits the mold just fine.
Oh well, the lazy always assume everyone else is like them.
here here.... i am redoing Ent, Music and some Dance and so far have not required a looping macro or being AFK and will not be using one. The long time I spend at the keyboard helps me get to know the other ATK entertainers plus the clientele in the Cantinas. I get to try songs and tunes I am writing to see if they work which will help me form my Band/Troupe when I get up to Master 
Message Edited by Shidi-Rommu on 08-02-2004 04:43 PM