Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Iknow there are a few of us (including me)that prefer an active entertainer as opposed to a bot that instructs you to watch/listen, stopwatch/listen, and tip 10k like I'm supposed to be some dog in obidence school. And I think it's really rude to ask for a tip when you are not even there at your keyboard to say thank you. Yes you dancers need us to make a living, but it's nice to be appreciated for giving you our hard earned credits. I actually make it a game now, I tip any entertainer that's actually here. If not, I get a free show. If you want to whine at me about watching or listening without tipping, then be there to actually say so.
First of all in Drewpa's defense while his afk is almost always on, he is NOT always afk (I think he just likes to "eavesdrop" :-))
Second, I wholeheartedly appreciate the SERVICE he provides for me and anyone else looking for a buff. As I am sure someone has already mentioned, my time in a catina (when looking for mind buffs) is valuable and with all the hubbub (and lag) in cnet cantina, the time it takes to get anyone to answer you, is buff wasted. Never once have I ever been approached by any other entertainer offering services. Even if he were to stop "botting", I would still go to him first for any entertaining needs I might have, because of the manner in which I have witnessed him conduct himself.
I honestly don't see what all the drama is about. If this is just about the money, then there are other ways of coming by it. Is it some kind of principle I am missing? No one is stopping you from entertaining. If you aren't having fun or making money, maybe this isn't the profession for you. I don't think when the devs were creating the entertainer prof, they had in mind "Everyone stand in a heap in the cantina and gripe about the afk-ers and bots". There are empty theaters and cantinas everywhere that I have never seen in use. Never have I ever heard of someone putting on a concert or "ballet".
Lastly, this is just an fyi, I considered "minoring" as an entertainer, but after reading all the drama and back-biting in these forums, decided against it.
Phantom_M-O-L wrote:
well i think i have made my posts for the buff bots and made them well. I hace tryed to find a middle ground. the anti buff people have not well most of them anyway.
The middle ground you were offering did not address our central issue of killing our ability to be economically viable. We do not make money off of BF healing we make money off of buffs. Although tips for BF healing are always appreciated.
I do not like people forcing there game play stile down my thoat nore do i try to do that to others. I will keep using my buff bot for as long as I can. and I will keep banning and reporting people as much as I can for doing things to the bot. i wish we could have come to some middle ground but I see this is not posable you all want it your way or the high way.
If you would offer a suggestion outside of what you already have I would be interested to hear it. The initial 'middle ground' offer lacked real substance as it did not address one of our core issues.
I will not give up with out a fight on the buff bots but I do not need to spend time were time is not well put to ood use. I thank all of you for comming in and saying the NICE things and good work I am doing with the bot. to the rest of you all WOOT nice fight and I respect all of you for your thoughts. just remember the grass is all way green over the hill.. I have not given up by no means. i will keep playing and doing what I am doing untill they nerf this. Remember the DEVs give us the marco to use and we are.
Yes, they did give us these macros, and they are in the process of changing their functionality to deal with the unattended play issues. I certainly wish you would try to see it from our side of things.
I have very little respect for a dancer that is crying on the fourms that the buff bot are killing my game, but in the cantina you just stand there and do not try to get people to come to you and get buff. I respect the peolpe that aretrying to be proactive and get a clint base going. you all know who your. and if your ever in the cantina look me up my BUFF BOT WILL BE RUNNNING 24 7 doing what it does best helping the public.. I have not taken cheap shots at any of you. please remeber that. well thanks and good luk on the back and forth thing later
Your initial posts were quite condesending and full of sarcasam. I would qualify those as cheap shots. You did, however, make an effort to curtail it and I appreciate that. I will not, however, patronize your bot should I come to your server as I do not believe in it. I don't want to take away from the business of the live entertainers there.
Again, I'd ask you try to play your entertainer ATK and see how you fare. Then you may understand some of the difficulty involved. I know I do alright, but as I said, all servers are different.
I'm trying to find a way to express why this situation is so upsetting, based on some of the experiences I've had in my life that evoke the same emotions -- but I don't want to upset people at the same time. Apologies if I did.
Message Edited by Doriana on 09-09-2004 12:28 PM
Doriana wrote:
Dreamland wrote:
In adition to what drygo and shailas have said, i urge you to actualy TRY playing as a live ent, and not on your buffbot because it has a clientbase that knows its a buffbot. Go to another server and actualy try buffing as and ATK entertainer with no buffbot macro and do it in a cantina with a buffbot. Untill you've done that dont try to tell me why i should be able to do just fine with a buffbot around.
Actually... Is this possible?
I really doubt it is even possible to get enough healing exp in the current environment without "renting" a CM to mind disease people for you. If you can't afford to pay a CM, you can't afford to get EH exp and AFKers have made it so that people very rarely get tipped for healing (and even in the past few weeks my tip to no-tip ratio for buffs has gotten a lot worse).
So how does a true newbie to the game get exp now, anyway?
Well, a guildmate of mine had a tendency to go get himself killed several times to blackbar up his mind to give outhealing experienceto those starting the professions. Also, I've been making a lot of Vette runs with my boyfriend to get him badges. I'll end up with 1000 BF easy. I then go find a newbie to give that healing experience to. Sure I can heal it alot quicker by myself, but it doesn't help anyone else if I dance for three minutes to heal that much experience away.
gesikah wrote:
(..sniped...)
I honestly don't see what all the drama is about. If this is just about the money, then there are other ways of coming by it. Is it some kind of principle I am missing? No one is stopping you from entertaining. If you aren't having fun or making money, maybe this isn't the profession for you. I don't think when the devs were creating the entertainer prof, they had in mind "Everyone stand in a heap in the cantina and gripe about the afk-ers and bots". There are empty theaters and cantinas everywhere that I have never seen in use. Never have I ever heard of someone putting on a concert or "ballet".
It is not all about money. At least, not for me it's not, and I'd wager not for a good many of the other dedicated entertainers. I have particpated in a good many shows and such (mostly invited gigs) in my time as an entertainer. Truely, I really love being an entertainer. I bought SWG with the intent of being and entertainer. Plenty of folks on plenty of servers put on shows, and alot of them get advetised here on these forums. I am going to be music director for a Cantina Crawl on Bria this Saturday, for example.
Lastly, this is just an fyi, I considered "minoring" as an entertainer, but after reading all the drama and back-biting in these forums, decided against it.
A rule of MMOs I learned is never, ever, let the forum chatter convince you they mirror the game.In this casethat means that myself and my entertainer friends don't talk about these issues 24/7.We spend alot of time jammin'
gesikah wrote:
(Just my 2 cents as a non-Dancer/Musician who uses (and appreciates) DrewPa's service on a semi-regular basis.)
First of all in Drewpa's defense while his afk is almost always on, he is NOT always afk (I think he just likes to "eavesdrop" :-))
Second, I wholeheartedly appreciate the SERVICE he provides for me and anyone else looking for a buff. As I am sure someone has already mentioned, my time in a catina (when looking for mind buffs) is valuable and with all the hubbub (and lag) in cnet cantina, the time it takes to get anyone to answer you, is buff wasted.
The Coronet cantina didn't used to have 30 people crowded like sardines in the entry way for you to push by to get into the main cantina. When the majority of Entertainers were LIVE, it was easy to findone willing to help with just about anything. Entertainers would compete with one another to see who could be more Entertaining, who could make the most in tips, who could involve their customers in the performance best. If the AFK macroers and buffbots hadn't driven the live Entertainment out of the cantinas, professions, and the game itself, there would be no problems finding buffs or Entertainer healing anywhere. Once the ability to AFK macrotain is gone, the damage can begin to repair itself. Yes there will be a time of adjustment as people tenatively step back into the Professions, but eventually the cantinas can be filled with happypeople again--Entertainers and patrons.
Never once have I ever been approached by any other entertainer offering services. Even if he were to stop "botting", I would still go to him first for any entertaining needs I might have, because of the manner in which I have witnessed him conduct himself.
Then you have manifested a trait that used to be common amongst cantina patrons. Before the AFK macrotainers tainted the Professions, some of the better Entertainers had groupies. The Entertainer would announce that he was heading to a different planet to jam and these people would rush to the starport to get their tickets to his new location. Entertainers did galactic tours and their groupies would follow them from town to town just because of the Entertainment's quality.
I honestly don't see what all the drama is about. If this is just about the money, then there are other ways of coming by it.
There was a time when Entertaining was a lifestyle, not a business. I didn't choose to start Entertaining so I could be rich. I became an Entertainer because I wanted to help people, to get to know them. All I ask is that I can make a reasonable living with Entertainment skills alone. Between the buffbots and the AFKmacrotainers many customers have stopped tipping altogether because they don't see any reason to. Why should they? What they see is a bunch of people who have probably put no time or effort into gaining skills, who aren't even putting in enough effort to greet, smile at, or talk to the people who come in.
Is it some kind of principle I am missing?
If you want to look at it in terms of "fair," discounting our personal feelings and the idea that we have devoted time to our professions, then think of it this way. Someone who is a master Musician must have dedicated 107 of his skillpoints to the pursuit. A master Weaponsmith on the other hand need only devote 93 skillpoints. Yet the Musician is looked down upon and told that he doesn't need to make as much money as the Weaponsmith.
Sure, I can live with that. Like I said, I didn't go into Entertaining for the money. All I want is to be able to sustain myself with my skills. The Weaponsmith can do that, but a Musician cannot.
Ok, now lets forget about the Weaponsmith and talk about the principles of live vs. AFK. Lets assume that it takes 100 hours to master Musician and I can play live fortwo hours a day. That means I could master Musician in about seven weeks, and I will have had 100 hours of sitting there playing my character. The AFK macrotainer can master Musician in a little over four days (23 hrs a day)and wouldn't have needed to spend more than about 10 minutes total at the keyboard. This AFK macrotainer goes the next step and begins buffbotting right next to me in a cantina. I submit that if even ONE person gets a buff from that buffbot, I have been cheated if only because of the time commitments. Not only that, but my time has been cheapened. It's a complete slap in the face for any live Entertainer to see a macrotainer or buffbot rendering "services." This isn't monetary. Each time a buffbot is used, another knife is plunged into the soul of the true Entertainers.
No one is stopping you from entertaining. If you aren't having fun or making money, maybe this isn't the profession for you.
Of course they're not stopping us from Entertaining. They'd love to be able to do that...to get rid of the nasty little thorn in their sides.
Let me tell you a short story. A bunch of politicians were sitting around yapping at one another, drinking coffee when the topic turned to the Vietnam war. They kept laughing and grinning as they told about how they'd avoided the draft. "I went to Canada." "I took a second major in college." They were having a great time until they turned and asked Mr. Jones, a relatively new politician: "So, how did you get out of it?" He replied, "I went." The conversation died right there, because suddenly the people who had been laughing it up about how they'd avoided doing their duty were reminded that there was a more honorable person in the room.
I'm not going to hide the fact that I'm a LIVE Entertainer from anyone. I don't care how uncomfortable my presence makes macrotainers and buffbots. I'm proud that I had the commitment and dedication to avoid the temptation to AFK macrotain. Sure it's the easy way, but I'm not going to cheapen myself, lower myself to make them feel welcome.
I don't think when the devs were creating the entertainer prof, they had in mind "Everyone stand in a heap in the cantina and gripe about the afk-ers and bots". There are empty theaters and cantinas everywhere that I have never seen in use. Never have I ever heard of someone putting on a concert or "ballet".
This reminds me of a quote from Lwaxana Troi on a Deep Space Nine episode. "You've been going to all the wrong parties." Actually, it's probably not entirely your fault. Judging from your forum registration, you haven't been around long enough to remember when virtually every cantina on every planet was filled with Entertainers and patrons. You know the Fallen Star cantina in Mos Entha? Yeah, it's abandoned...it wasn't always that way. There used to be live Entertainers there and *gasp* even in the theater! AFK macrotainers made all that go away. Now, I'd suggest you check up on your server events page and also look here on the Entertainment forums every once in awhile. You might be surprised to find some last live Entertainers struggling to keep the old lifestyle going. And one last item...no, I don't think the Devs stood around saying "Everyone stand in a heap in the cantina and gripe about the afk-ers and bots." Mostly because they never dreamed that the macro system would be exploited in such a way.
Lastly, this is just an fyi, I considered "minoring" as an entertainer, but after reading all the drama and back-biting in these forums, decided against it.
All the negativity in the world couldn't stop you from doing something if you really wanted to. If you want to try Entertaining, please do. It's a great profession once you get past the AFK macrotainers, buffbots, unfixed bugs, etcetera. You don't have to come to the Profession forums if you don't want to, just play your game and have some fun.
Dreamland wrote:
KaceyBronson wrote:
Dreamland wrote:
Isendel wrote:
To supply buffs and heals during the many times when a live entertainer is not avalable.
Who supplies doctor buffs and wound heals during the many times doctors are not available?
afk doctor buff bots
Do you see vast amounts of afk doctor buffbots in the same public venues as live doctors? You do not, because theres no way for the doctor buffbot to enforce a tip in a public place so when they do exist they're off in a house more often than not. A doctor Has to enforce a tip or they simply will not be able to continue buffing because buff packs cost money. Doctor buffbots also do not hinder the novice community because they don't deprive them of 90% of the healing xp that is done in the venue, like an entertainer buffbot does. Nor do they provide wound heals. And let me tell you it can be a challenge on less populated servers to get a wound heal during off peak hours.
All this said Doctor buffbots are wrong and should not be possible either. I see alot of buffbot's say oh but i tell the customers to watch the entertainer group first, and i don't stand in the doorway. Well thats fantastic, but the customers that are using a buffbot don't care about entertainers anyway so why should they be bothered to watch the entertainer group? In point of fact, they don't i've sat and watched brias most used buffbot for great lengths of time and she has an obscene amount of people using her, most of which whodo not watch the entertainer group first, or probably even know what an entertainer group is. The fact also remains that many buffbots do park themself as close to the door as possible.
As I said in my previous post Buff Bots should not be in cantinas...period...Cantina's should be left for live entertainers. But here it the problem with live entertainers. As a Master we buff alot. We are watched more with our tags displayed. People get annoyed at the fact you try to buff one at a time. So you dont go group with the grinders in the cantinayou group with the people you are buffing, then other people come in and watch you instead so therefore you are still getting the healing xp you dont need becuase people are watching you instead so you are still taking xp from the grinder. So either way its wrong.
If I have my dancer/musician I will NOT disband from the grinding group. So I lose customers becuase I can only buff one at a time
so what are the options?
I leave my buff bot far away from major city cantinas. Tucked away in a house with a fee on it. And I check on her often
I think that what should be done is add something like what AOL has. If you are not active on it for a certain amount of time a little box will pop up and say something like you are inactive would you like to remain online press ok otherwise you will be logged out in 10 minutes or something
I love being an entertainer. I love talking to people but I cant always be at my computer. But I have people, customers, who depend on my to be online to provide a service. My buff bot was a place to come and chat it was rare for me to sit there for more then 20 minutes alone before people would come in and we would chat.
I think it is unfair to punish everyone for a few selfish people who plop afk buff bots in the cantinas.....
Thats al i really have to say I dont know if it makes much sense to you but you need to look at all sides, not just the one your on
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-09-2004 02:36 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-09-2004 02:39 PM