Dancer Archive
Thread: An end to the plague but-
So extend a little faith to the dev team. They already asked the question how it will adversely affect people, and have responded positively to some great ideas, such as a practice button on the front page of the crafting tool. I don't think they asked for feedback just to toss it out, let's give them a little credit here. I don't think they'll make this change without addressing some of those concerns at the same time.
Dreamland wrote:
SmedleyLlama wrote:
Sorry.. Didn't mean to offend you with my choiuce of words.I was simply replying to Panthus choice of the word "scapegoats". I chose innocent as in not having anything to do with the whole situation.
If I am wrong and you are angry about the Devs choice, I invite you to let them know. However, if this is something you approve of because it gives you what you asked for, then yes.. I would say you lack innocence in this matter.
I am not angry with the devs, I am happy that they are finaly taking interest in cleaning up the afk aspect of the game be that in any profession. That includes someone sitting in the middle of a spawn of meatlumps afk all day for combat xp.
We have been making it clear to them all along what we wantand continue to do so. I sent my PM to Thunderheart saying that carving out recursive macros alone wouldn't help because the afkers already have their 8 hour super macros waiting for when the change goes through.Theyhave been madeaware of this. And rest assured the corespondants are making them aware of allother issues as well. What they choose to do with our information is not in our power to decide.
Its frustrating when people come in here pointing fingers and pinning blame when they haven't even taken the time to inform themselves fully on the situation. The devs do not read these threads, they dont have time to wade through the pages and pages of insults and ignorance to try and get to the real issues, Thats why we have corespondants. When an entertainer has a bad day and comes in here to vent about how they hate buffbots it has no bearing on the devs descision at all because it just doesn't get read by them. The relavent issues and proposals from our corespondants do.
I'm glad you took the time to tell TH that you feel it is a useless gesture. I certainly hope you gave a handful of viable alternatives and asked that they be considered instead. I know I did.
Now, try doing it in public. Not for the Devs sake, but for the rest of the gaming population that read your posts. Tell them that this is a bad move and they should fix the individual problems instead. The fingers are pointed because of the reaction of the Entertainer profession as a whole to this. Your glee is seen as a slap in the face to those that this move hurts.
I'm glad you want something done to enhance your gameplay. I will support anything that doesn't take away from others in the process. But so long as I see people arguing that this is a good thing for gameplay overall, I will have to disagree.
I agree, and I'll reiterate. They already asked the question, asked for feedback on how this will adversely affect people. Let's see what they propose to help people. Extend them a bit of faith. I'll be right beside you giving them hell if they make this change without addressing some of the concerns at the same time. I don't want people's gameplay ruined, I want them sitting and playing the game.
As an aside, many of the things you mention are not going away. You can still make a macro that checks for the shuttle or surveys that eliminates almost all the clicking and pressing involved, but that doesn't loop. I'd wager that half the things that people are complaining about will still work fine with slightly adjusted macros...they just can't leave it running forever without their input. The rest is what they need to address.
picklesSW wrote:
"In fact I would be thrilled if the Dancers and Musicians stood up in that thread and said,"Here are better ways to fix things!". Because right now I all I see is the majority of Ents just telling everyone how wonderful this is."
It is wonderful. Not just for us, for everyone. The game will be healthier and more vibrant because of it. Less lag, less spam, less exploiting, less resource hogging, less anti-social behavior. I'm sorry you don't see that, but someday you will.
No, it's not wonderful. For you.. perhaps. For others.. No.
If this is wonderful, then ask yourself this. Why do so many people use them in the first place? And why the rabid reaction on both sides? That's probably one of the worst problems with this thing.. It's open some very nasty wounds between the classes. And they're going to take an awful long time to heal.
picklesSW wrote:
So extend a little faith to the dev team. They already asked the question how it will adversely affect people, and have responded positively to some great ideas, such as a practice button on the front page of the crafting tool. I don't think they asked for feedback just to toss it out, let's give them a little credit here. I don't think they'll make this change without addressing some of those concerns at the same time.
SmedleyLlama wrote:
I'm glad you took the time to tell TH that you feel it is a useless gesture. I certainly hope you gave a handful of viable alternatives and asked that they be considered instead. I know I did.
Now, try doing it in public. Not for the Devs sake, but for the rest of the gaming population that read your posts. Tell them that this is a bad move and they should fix the individual problems instead. The fingers are pointed because of the reaction of the Entertainer profession as a whole to this. Your glee is seen as a slap in the face to those that this move hurts.
I'm glad you want something done to enhance your gameplay. I will support anything that doesn't take away from others in the process. But so long as I see people arguing that this is a good thing for gameplay overall, I will have to disagree.
Some use them because of the tedious parts of the game. Others use them because they're too lazy to actually play the game, or because they want to level up as fast as possible or gain as much loot as possible, or because they want to advertise.
The people who fall in the first category, their problems can and should be addressed, for example by streamlining the crafting interface.
The latter categories are people who are very much interfering in others gameplay. Let me suggest this. I'll get on board with leaving looping macros in if you get the dev team to eliminate all the negative aspects of unattended online gameplay in some other way. That includes buffbots, anyone who leaves their character in an AFK state where they can gain credits or experience without any real work, people who cause massive lag in Coronet and Theed by being logged in 24x7, etc. Believe me, we've tried to get them to do that for a year. No dice.
Until you manage to get them to do that, I'm going to go on record here and say that there are far and away many more negative consequences to unattended gameplay in SWG than there are benefits.
SmedleyLlama wrote:
No.. Panthu is right. This is not what they asked for and a lot of good ideas were floated to fix the situation for the entertainer professions. Instead, the Devs decided this was the easiest and fastest way to get it done.
That still doesn't mean the largest cry that "something" be done by the devs didn't come from the Ents. Because it did. And ultimately, this probably wouldn't have come about had those cries not been heard. So I wouldn't claim complete innocence Panthu.
Yeah, how irrational of us to loudly profess that we want our professions to mean something, and not be beaten into extinction by PC NPC's.
The Devs most certainly did not like this happening anymore than we did. We were the loudest because we are the ones who this phenomenon hurts the most.
And personally, I don't really care about any backlash over us celebrating the possibility that buffbots will go away or be severely hindered (which honestly we don't know yet - the "fix" isn't in or finalized at all). It's not like people don't hate us anyways or resent that they have to see us for battle fatigue healing. Nothing's gonna change there. Just a bunch of people who've come to depend on a PC NPC (which is a shame) instead of a real player. And wow, they sure can yell when THEIR game gets hurt, can't they. This will hardly bring their professions to the point of uselessness. Leaving the system as it is would mean the end of a live entertainer's viability to the community.
The Devs never intended to have their game populated by people who can start up a new character for $15 more per month, and AFK completely through the experience and even into their mastery, and provide the same benefit a live player does to the game community. Plain and simple, it's bad for the game and this is their approach to solving it, NOT OURS. Our solutions had little to no impact on other professions, but as is the trend with us entertainers and the Devs, we got ignored.
But, in the end, wejust mayhave our professions' worth saved by this, thus we are celebrating.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Dreamland wrote:
SmedleyLlama wrote:
That still doesn't mean the largest cry that "something" be done by the devs didn't come from the Ents. Because it did. And ultimately, this probably wouldn't have come about had those cries not been heard. So I wouldn't claim complete innocence Panthu.
INNOCENCE?so because we've asked for our profession to be improved we are at fault for something the developers have chose to enact?
The way you word it it's as if we have commited some kind of a crime by wanting to be viable.
Maybe you're not at fault. But you're sure as hell going to get blamed for it and receive backlash for it, because the group to which you've attached yourself is blindly and rabidly supporting a change that so much of the rest of the community sees as a terribly bad, pain-inducingidea.
Wait, they already don't like us. We're already looked at with disdain by so many combat people. What's the difference, what're they going to do, not come to us for heals/buffs? And this would be different thanhow it is now, exactly?
Player interaction lies at the heart of any MMORPG. I fail to see why people are playing this game if they don't want to interact with anyone.
And, excuse us for celebrating the fact our professions might not die outfrom complete and total AFK automation by certain individuals who have no respect for our gameplay style and professions. But, celebrate we will.
Warryyr wrote:
But, in the end, wejust mayhave our professions' worth saved by this, thus we are celebrating.
That's pretty much status quo.
I've got my hopes pinned on new players, especially with JTL about to ship, that won't be lugging around that emotional baggage.
Won't happen. As evidenced by the uproar over the loss of precious buffbots, our services are very much valued. Maybe they'll get angry. Then in a week's time they'll realize they want to get buffed up, they'll drink their juicebox after naptime, and they'll again get reintroduced to the fact that entertainers are players in this game, too - just like every last one of the rest of you. Hopefully the Devs will do things to accomodate legit uses of the recursive macro system so that others' gameplay won't change very much. If they don't, it'll be extremely irresponsible of them, but it is hardly OUR FAULT.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
But, in the end, wejust mayhave our professions' worth saved by this, thus we are celebrating.
What if, in the end, you piss off the rest of the professions so profoundly that the vast majority decide never to use your services again, but instead choose to keep a handful of the alts they've leveled around just to heal up BF?
They certainly don't *need* you for buffs anymore, what with all these great foods and a supposed spice buff coming.
If you want to sit around in cantinas and talk amongst yourselves all day, great, piss enough combatants off and that's what you got.
Then again, you could do that today, without this macro nerf, in just about any Player City Cantina or private house of your choice...