Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
In fact I have used AFKers. They make great material for jokes. I've also used them as shields against aggressive NPC's that come to the cantinas. They don't last very long but I usually only need a few moments to run out the door. Hooray for zombie shields!!
TheLoneWolf wrote:
Pre-CU yes there were a buttload of AFK Entertainers. I used them. You used them (Don't deny it no one will believe you anyways if you do /grin).
Doriana wrote:
TheLoneWolf wrote:
AFK's don't care
Well, duh. We know that one. Why should you care about a profession you're not a part of? I don't really care too much about jedi after all.
If you are an entertainer, musician, or dancer and play AFK you are still part of the profession. To state otherwise is arrogant. Granted yes the ATK entertainer is probably more into RP than the AFK one is. But what you failed to realize and I even stated in my previous message is that I played a MEnt,MMusician,MDancer. I was an AFK Autobuffer AND I was also part of a band. Does that make me not part of the professions? I don't care about AFK Autobuffers. They provide a useful service plain and simple.
TheLoneWolf wrote:
There has not been a single valid arguement that I have found to date regarding WHY the ATK people dislike the AFK people.
You haven't read this thread then. Everything from creating disaffection with the people who followed the rules but weren't rewarded as well as the people who didn't, to cheapning the profession into nothing but AFK spammers, to undermining the "cost vs. reward" system for the entire game balance, to making it impossible for the people actually playing to have a purpose, to making the profession "about" buffs instead of about interacting with people.. It's all been discussed. If you are too mismatched for entertaining to understand that, you don't belong in a cantina because you don't understand what the point of entertaining is.
The point of entertaining is to create a social foundation in the game world to facilitate and encourage interaction between groups of players that otherwise would never meet as well as to give a purpose to social playstyle players. It is not to buff and it is not to heal. By focusing on "buff services" or "healing services" or really any of the artifical services added to drive the system, this removes the entire point of any social player actually wanting to play. Replacing the real person with an NPC gives a social player no game to play.
The point of the entertainer, and again I did state this in the original message, is to bring RP to the game. You see you have basically 3 types of people who play MMORPGs in general. The RPer, The Powergamer, and The Casual Gamer. In all honestly those who come to get the buffs are not there for RP value. Therefore by forcing the buffs to be done only by ATK entertainers you in fact take away the true value of the Entertainer. RP. RP is what provides that "Star Wars Feeling". RP is what provides others who want to RP social interaction. RP doesn't include things like pwn, l337, etc. And the Entertainer, even with the AFK Autobuffers, will ALWAYS have a time and a place. RP Events in fact. Honestly in an RP World you should be able to go up and carry on a REAL conversation with the NPC's. You can't do that though can you? No so the only place you can truly RP is around LIVE PLAYERS. And THAT my friend is what you have failed to understand from what I gathered by your comments thus far.
TheLoneWolf wrote:
AFK Buffers are a unique thing to the game.
No they're not. DAOC was almost completely destroyed by them, just like SWG has been. Your macro is not special.
I disagree. What almost destroyed DAOC is the same thing that is currently destroying SWG. No High End Content. Just PVP. Max out your template and you really have nothing to do. DAOC didn't have macros when I played it. I still have my toons over there in fact (I am not one of those who sells my accounts when I leave a game). So if there was macro usage it was by 3rd party programs. While I don't care if someone uses a 3rd party program it is against the EULA in most MMORPGs. I also never said my macro was special. But I did make a rather nice intricate macro before the CU for my entertainer that would actually change songs AND instruments just so I wasn't like the majority of the AFK autobuffers playing the same song with the same flourishes and the same instrument 24/7. But then I wasn't AFK 24/7 either.
TheLoneWolf wrote:
Those AFK Doctors receive emails DAILY from ATK Players saying one thing and one thing only. "Thank you for being here. It really helps me out."
When I was 3 years old, I wanted to have cake for breakfast. Every day. Lunch, too. But my parents knew better. They knew that if I ate nothing but cake, I would be unhealthy. So they told me no. It's the same principle here. Of course people WANT buffs that require no effort or cost and are always on. But the game wasn't designed that way, nor is it the "healthiest" choice for a character or for a guild. Sometimes you do someone a bigger favor by saying "No" than by giving in to every whim and whine. It's called responsibility.
That's just it though this game was built around 2 things that at the time were unique to it. And one of those have been taken away. Skill based and IN GAME MACROs. Well now this game is level based (don't get me started on my beefs with DE which I also happen to be). That leaves the IGMs now. Yes I will at times put people on the deny list for buffs. You can do that as an AFK Autobuffer. It is done for various reasons but the most common one is when the person using the service starts acting like a jerk. They are warned. If they continue then they are perm denied. You do know you can deny ANYONE you want access to any buff you want (except the passive ones sadly /sigh) right? Simply put them on ignore. They can't invite you to thier group so they can't get the buffs. So by your own statement I have proven that I show responsibility.
TheLoneWolf wrote:
They say that if you are at the keys then your an ATK Buffer.
That's BS. "They" also tell me that no one ever enjoys entertaining because ti's stupid. If you ever AFK buff (or as an ent, now, if you ever AFK publicly) you're a buffbot until you stop it permanantly. You can't say "I'm going to respect the profession on Teusdays but not on Wednesdays!" Goes back to the responsibility thing and taking responsibility for your actions (or inactions as the case may be).
It's a lifestyle choice, not a "what will I be today?" choice.
But isn't choice what they gave us? If I decide today I want to be a buffbot but tomorrow I want to be ATK is that not a lifestyle choice? And in fact does it not encompass both? What if I go and write a couple of songs and only play them on days I am ATK? Or I know how about in my original message I pointed out that I was in a BAND 2 nights a week and I also did the buffbot thing until I no longer had time (well the band died, ispart of it,thanks to the Combat Upgrade which actually made combat easier not harder). That was a lifestyle choice. I had over 40 items of clothing I used to change into and out of depending on where we were playing and so forth. That is money I invested into the profession. I had every single instrument. Again money I invensted into the profession. I enjoyed the profession greatly both while ATK and AFK. But then again I spend a lot of time AFK just watching. I used to freak customers out because I would start talking out of the blue when I wanted to. From an RP point you could just say that the AFK ones are quiet and soft spoken.
TheLoneWolf wrote:
You used them (Don't deny it no one will believe you anyways if you do /grin).
Don't tell me what i have and haven't done. I have never, in over 2 years, gained any benefit from an unattended character. I have never left my character dispensing services AFK. I do not train AFKers and I do nothing to help them. No reward in this game is worth me sacrificing my dignity and integrity for.
I haven't missed out on ANY part of the game by supporting only ATKers. In fact, I guarantee my game as been much richer for it. I've been to every dungeon, every type of event, PVEd, PVPed, defended bases, taken bases, done innumerable quests.. All without ever once supporting AFK. I also guarantee the majority of this forum is the same.
I have been a part of this forum for a long time. I read but I don't write. Why? Because there are bits of knowledge that can be gleaned when people aren't whining about the AFKers. But seriously did you ever buff your own combat toons? That is a buffbot. Granted you may log them on to buff your toons and your friends toons then log off. But you probably used a macro to speed things up when flourishes counted right? I mean honestly. You don't loose dignity or integrity for it. And I know when I was all entertainer (triple master) There was no way in heck I could do any of the pvp. And POST-CU there is no way you can do any of the quests, pve (unless you like killing level 10 and under mobs or you are in a full group and letting them CARRY you).
TheLoneWolf wrote:
Entertainers, Musicians, and Dancers have a very UNIQUE ROLE in SWG. Even without buffing and healing they do, IMO, provide a very intrical part of the game. They bring the RP Aspect to the game. People forget SWG is a MMORPG which stands for Massive Multi-Player On-line ROLE PLAYING GAME. That is what the Entertainer brings us. Not the AFK ones. Not the ones playing it so they can buff and make money. But the ones who go out and do things like FORM BANDS. PUT ON SHOWS. Do all the stuff we see in the videos by such people as Windspire and so forth.
So why are you trying to destroy this?
How am I trying to destroy it? I think you really just skimmed over what I wrote and choose items to nitpick instead of sitting down and reading the whole thing. Which does disappoint me greatly. As many times I have had to point out things. In fact if you re-read what you quoted you will see I am in fact supporting the Entertainers for what they are truly useful for.
Ikewe wrote:
In fact I have used AFKers. They make great material for jokes. I've also used them as shields against aggressive NPC's that come to the cantinas. They don't last very long but I usually only need a few moments to run out the door. Hooray for zombie shields!!
TheLoneWolf wrote:
Pre-CU yes there were a buttload of AFK Entertainers. I used them. You used them (Don't deny it no one will believe you anyways if you do /grin).
So cruel yet so funny. roflmao and dang you for making me laugh when my acid reflux is hitting me hard!!!! /laugh
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
SlickRiptide wrote:
TheLoneWolf wrote:
For sometime now I have read both sides of the arugments.
ATK's don't like AFK's. Plain and simple.
AFK's don't care because they KNOW they are not AFFECTING the ATK's gameplay.
That is the plain and simple truth of it.
If you believe what you've stated above then there's no basis for a discussion. ATK's dislike AFK's because they affect our gameplay. You can argue about whether you think it SHOULD affect our gameplay but if you just unilaterally proclam that it doesn't, then there's no point in bothering to convince you otherwise.
Pre-CU yes there were a buttload of AFK Entertainers. I used them. You used them (Don't deny it no one will believe you anyways if you do /grin).
Here again - If you want a discussion, then you have to have an open mind. Please look at what you've stated here. You are telling me how I played my game, and then saying that I'm a liar if I contradict you. You're setting up your viewpoint to be the only viable one worthy of consideration. What's the point of talking any more about it? How can you say that you'll respect opposing opinions when you've dismissed them as false and irrelevant before you've even heard them?
*shrug* Believe what you want to believe. If all of these ATKers who hate AFkers FEEL that it's affecting their gameplay, then by definition, it IS affecting their gameplay. State all you want about WHY it affects it, HOW it affects it, and SHOULD it affect it. Just don't deny the obvious fact that it DOES affect it and tell us "I'll respect your opinions as long as you acknowledge from the beginning that my opinions are the only correct ones."
Exactly what I was thinking when reading his post. (By the way.. I think I'm falling in Love
Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 09-16-2005 01:18 AM
Well then I recommend you read my reply to him
purty colors though. Makes me want to get back to work on my Mace Windu edition Xbox
AFK grinders - Usually there purely for XP, now BF/Wounds have gone its rare people like this spam so they generally are inoffensive, the only way they get good XP is from grouping but it can be solo'd fairly easily and quickly in your own house or in a back corner. To get decent XP rate it requires higher level Ents so if ATK'ers are present then they actively participate in the grinding AFK'ers actions if its a group of AFK'ers then theres not alot you can do.
AFK Spammers - Most often found in eisley running the same macro theyve had since pre CU with 10 second loops of emotes and speach that makes life in cantinas hell for those actually at the keyboard. "Plz tip" "Heal my action" "Come watch me i need the healing xp" "Come watch me for buff" etc plus numerous emotes. This type of AFK'er disrupts a cantina, addignore works but it means every single person has to do it plus its rare they actively put their AFK tag up so the option for ignoring speach from AFK players doesnt work.
AFK buffers - Generally found at the main grind locations such as mining outpost on Dantooine these players are OFTEN the same as the above but are there to recieve tips from grinders wanting the easy life to get their general inspiration buff. The cantinas they inhabit are usually impossible to stay in ATK if you want your sanity as everyone is spamming none of the grinders will usually talk to you and the buffbots are always there. This type of AFK'er devalues the entertainer profession because people will go for the easy option rather than seeking out an ATK player, they may be performing a service but an alt character AFK is not playing the game its a mule account which is bad for cross profession links. Making the general inspiration buff active rather than passive would resolve this.
Now since BF was removed cantinas have been basically dead, the odd crafter coming in getting buffed then leaving is not social interaction some do stay and talk but most need to use all the time to do crafting runs and actually use the buff they have just recieved. Combat players on the other hand because they require 0 interaction just a quick /watch often dont even speak and if they are at some place such as MO they are used to this not being a problem because they see ALL ents as being AFK buffers and nothing more.
So YES AFK dancers provide a service to the general playerbase.
NO they do not provide a good standpoint for the rest of the profession, they take possible business away from ATK ents who spend thier time to play the role (AFKers arent spending time just running another instance with a macro) and provide an image of AFK profession that ruins it for other Ents.
TheLoneWolf wrote:
And you have given no opinion of your own what so ever. You didn't even deny using the AFK Autobuffers.
TheLoneWolf wrote:
How did it affect your game play? Seriously how did it affect your game play? It didn't affect mine in the least. I was still in bands having a blast RP'ing which is something AFK'ers can't do.
SlickRiptide wrote:
TheLoneWolf wrote:
For sometime now I have read both sides of the arugments.
ATK's don't like AFK's. Plain and simple.
AFK's don't care because they KNOW they are not AFFECTING the ATK's gameplay.
That is the plain and simple truth of it.
If you believe what you've stated above then there's no basis for a discussion. ATK's dislike AFK's because they affect our gameplay. You can argue about whether you think it SHOULD affect our gameplay but if you just unilaterally proclam that it doesn't, then there's no point in bothering to convince you otherwise.
How did it affect your game play? Seriously how did it affect your game play? It didn't affect mine in the least. I was still in bands having a blast RP'ing which is something AFK'ers can't do.
Pre-CU yes there were a buttload of AFK Entertainers. I used them. You used them (Don't deny it no one will believe you anyways if you do /grin).
Here again - If you want a discussion, then you have to have an open mind. Please look at what you've stated here. You are telling me how I played my game, and then saying that I'm a liar if I contradict you. You're setting up your viewpoint to be the only viable one worthy of consideration. What's the point of talking any more about it? How can you say that you'll respect opposing opinions when you've dismissed them as false and irrelevant before you've even heard them?
And you have given no opinion of your own what so ever. You didn't even deny using the AFK Autobuffers.
*shrug* Believe what you want to believe. If all of these ATKers who hate AFkers FEEL that it's affecting their gameplay, then by definition, it IS affecting their gameplay. State all you want about WHY it affects it, HOW it affects it, and SHOULD it affect it. Just don't deny the obvious fact that it DOES affect it and tell us "I'll respect your opinions as long as you acknowledge from the beginning that my opinions are the only correct ones."
No where did I say you must acknowledge that my opinions are the only correct ones. Also again you have failed to provide any discussion points countering what I have said.
I recently made an entertainer alt to play with on Naritus when I just want to kill some time or am waiting for friends on Valcyn (my main home) to come online. I started her out in Mos Eisley, surrounded by AFK'ers, where my little Twi was the only ATK performer. After about an hour with no tips, I shipped her off to Dant MO where again she was the only ATK performer. Everyone else was AFK, spamming the tiny tavern with emotes, offers for buffs, pleas for tips, etc. An hour later, I'd only netted 2000 in tips from 2 people, despite greeting by name and attempting to socialize with every person who came in the door of the tavern. I alsonoticed while playing her, that everyone who came into the Dant tavern just ran in, targeted the first entertainer they saw, started to watch/listen, then ran out after getting a quick buff. It really seemed that no one cared if the entertainer was ATK or AFK so long as they got their buff.
Now, on Valcyn where I play most of the time I will always look for an ATK entertainer, regardless of their skill, over an AFK entertainer. Because if I am going to stand there for 10 minutes getting fully buffed, I want to be entertained, and I find the socialization much more entertaining than glowsticks or disco lights. If there isn't an ATK'er to be found, I'll target an AFK'er for a few minutes and tip them a thousand credits or so. But if there is an ATK'er (and I always ask instead of just looking for the tag) - that's usually at leasta 10k-20k tip from me. And if they're really good I'll tip even more. I have a favorite entertainer in Mos Eisley that I will tip around 50k every time I see her because she is always ATK, always socializing and making actual conversation, and always entertaining (plus she ran outside to provide theme music for my duel against a Jedi the other night in Mos Eisleywhich really made the fact that I won the duelso.freaking.awesome!)
So from an entertainer perspective, the AFK'ers affected my gameplay through their constant spam, which made it difficult for me to socialize and attract customers, and by eliminating having to deal with an ATK person who a customer might then feel obligated to tip (lot easier to just watch an AFK bot than deal with a live person at the keys.)
From a customer perspective, the AFK'er affect my gameplay by taking the fun out of sitting in a cantina, getting an inspire buff before I head off to mete out some damage for XP or faction points. It's no fun sitting there for my max duration, having to hear the following over and over:
"Want to see something cool! Watch me for a few minutes and see what happens!"
"Now looking for people to put on my top tippers list!" *wink* *smile*
(Bobbi-Jo smiles)
(Susie-Q blows a kiss to everyone)
"We know who is watching us and can give profession-specific buffs! Read my bio for info!"
"if u liek wat u c, plz tip!"
...and so forth and so on.
So anyway, just my perspective from both sides of the fence. Yes the AFK'ers provide a service, but they don't provide much to the fun factor. And there are people out there that support ATK'ers and ATK'ers only (in fact I don't know anyone on Valcyn who will tip an AFK'er when there is someone ATK), so hang in there guys!
What do entertianers do when they are seemingly the only ATK entertianer in the galaxy?
1. Become AFK themselves and perpetuate the cycle
2. /logout
I chose always to log out. And it has become so frequent that I am looking for a second game to play. I used to log in when I wanted to play. Now I look at my watch, decide if it is a busy enough time to find another live entertainer to hang out with before considering logging in.
Ylis wrote:
I am having a bad day.
What do entertianers do when they are seemingly the only ATK entertianer in the galaxy?
1. Become AFK themselves and perpetuate the cycle
2. /logout
I chose always to log out. And it has become so frequent that I am looking for a second game to play. I used to log in when I wanted to play. Now I look at my watch, decide if it is a busy enough time to find another live entertainer to hang out with before considering logging in.
Exactly.
As an ATK entertainer, if you are the only one, you may as well log out.
Which is why I am also looking into other games... not many seem worth it though just now. I've taken to playing GW a bit just because there is no monthly fee, so it costs me nothing whether I play it or not (unlike SWG, which currently is costing me $15/month to NOT play it, since 90% of the time there's no band to join anywhere, so I just log back out).
C