Dancer Archive

---

Esharra wrote:

---

Panthu wrote:

3) I hope this thread is never needed again after those first two things are worked out.

---

*CHEER*

---

Later that evening, we’re hanging in my cantina. I’ve made sure he’s put my favorite ID (<3 Neith) on his friends list and promised to bring out my tailor. He’s calling bandflos while I explain /changed to him. Then he says, “There’s something I think I need to tell you about.” Fortunately, I was only in tells wIth Til..he’s used to hearing the stream of expletives that followed.

Aeschyl wants to be a part of our community now. He understands how hard it will be for some of us to accept him. Those of you who have known me around here for a while can imagine my internal struggle. Dant MO has not been a place where a live entertainer on Chilastra could make a credit for a long time. Yet, Aeschyl is still someone whose friendship I value. The following is as much my own exercise in dealing with this as it is anything else.

Esharra says:
Ok..you started Vibrata in..July or August last year?

Aeschyl says:
Yes

Esharra says:
Did you create the character with the intention of having a buff bot?

Aeschyl says:
Yes

Esharra says:
Why?

Aeschyl says:
because as a non-pve'ing Bounty Hunter that enjoyed using top of the line weapons and armor, and having a well decorated house, and that doesn’t sell high-end loot...I could not keep purchasing great weapons/supplies on just the money I was making by killing Jedi...I needed a steady source of income

Esharra says:
About how much credits did you make each week as a buff bot?

Aeschyl says:
About 5 million per week. I never really kept track. I spent as I made it. Between both of my characters I never had more than 10 million (due to buying high-end weapons/supplies)

Esharra says:
Before you started botting, were you aware of the impact that buff bots were having on the entertainer professions?

Aeschyl says:
No

Aeschyl says:
I knew there was a scuffle going on between them, but I never really knew what the issues were...I never stepped out of the main cantinas...and I never saw many of the "big name" entertainers in there....so naturally I assumed that the scuffle was between buff-bots taking the xp away from the ents that were grinding

Esharra says:
So when/how did you become aware there was a problem?

Aeschyl says:
the only run-In I had with any sort of problem was when I walked into the Dantooine Mining Outpost Cantina...I turned on my afk buff macro...and Til started yelling at me (I had been botting for 2 months prior with no altercations) - he didn’t really go into anything about It more than he simply didn’t want me doing what I was doing...he left, and I never had another run in with pro/anti buff bots

Esharra says:
So from your perspective, you botted from from August -> October, 2 weeks In December, and 2 weeks In January and there was no problem?

Aeschyl says:
I was not one of the buff-bots that tried to eliminate the ATK ents...I took more of a passive role...didn’t mingle in other people's affairs...simply went about my business

Aeschyl says:
No.no problems were apparent to me that made me think what I was doing was "killing a profession"

Esharra says:
Did someone else run the bot for the other times after October. with the exception of those 2 weeks In December and then January?

Aeschyl says:
No one played the bot while I was paying for her, after I cancelled the account, I gave the account to a friend (In late February) - he botted her for a month, I believe

Esharra says:
So really, the whole time you botted..you never had any idea that botting was causing a problem for some players and you only experienced one incident of anyone disapproving?

Aeschyl says:
That Is correct, the only problems that I personally saw was me stealing the grinder’s xp, and Til's 1 outburst

Esharra says:
So, as far as you were concerned. you weren't doing any harm?

Aeschyl says:
To other master dancer/musicians, no

Esharra says:
Why do you think other players chose to go to a buff bot rather than a live entertainer?

Aeschyl says:
They were more readily available and easy to use

Aeschyl says:
It satisfied the lazy customer that wanted easy and instant gratification

Esharra says:
How was It harder to use a live entertainer?

Aeschyl says:
People were so used to afk bots that It became second nature to use them - plus if they didn’t want to tip the AFK bot and get a "free ride", there was no guilt

Aeschyl says:
If they don’t tip an ATK dancer....there is a bit of guilt there

Esharra says:
Are other players so poor that they can't tip?

Aeschyl says:
Not where I ran my bot

Aeschyl says:
I purposefully ran her in the mining outpost...where everyone ran solo groups and did missions for 33k a pop

Esharra says:
Obviously, you realize that, in order to be able to have anything or do anything in the game, a player has to have a means of providing credits to their character. Did you ever wonder how the entertainers gained income?

Aeschyl says:
Honestly, it never crossed my mind

Aeschyl says:
When I would see other ents grinding In the MO...

Aeschyl says:
I just assumed they were grinding to be a bot as well

Aeschyl says:
I botted in a different location than I did the grind

Aeschyl says:
And the location where I botted, you would never see more than 3-4 non-bot ents

Aeschyl says:
So yeah, it never crossed my mind

Aeschyl says:
I was too busy playing on my other chars.

Aeschyl says:
No I did not assume that you were a bot.

Esharra says:
From the perspective of a combatter..are we entertainers even In the game?

Aeschyl says:
Honestly, from a combatant's point of view....ents were simply there to heal mind wounds/BF and give mind buffs...and now...simply to give Inspiration buffs.....I never knew a non-bot entertainer personally until recently

Esharra says:
So now you want to be an entertainer?

Esharra says:
Why?

Aeschyl says:
While I grinded my bot, I had fun with the ent groups that I was in...and I really did enjoy learning new dances and attempting to put together routines.....since I used my buff bot's services regularly....I got to see what she looked like to other people...and I didn’t like seeing a boring performance....so I attempted to mix up her daily dancing routines to give my customers something different on a daily basis - through that I found that I enjoyed doing that...but I was too wrapped up in my combat toon's life on the server to devote much time to doing that

Aeschyl says:
And now that I've decided to retire my combat toon, I figured that I would devote the time it takes to making a good non AFK entertainer

Esharra says:
I did always give you (the bot, didn’t know it was you at the time) credit for being atk a good percentage of the time that I saw you grinding up. I honestly was a bit surprised when you started botting. Did you see game life as an atk entertainer and as a bot differently?

Aeschyl says:
Very much so

Aeschyl says:
atk ents had fun chatting with each other, telling stories, making inside jokes about the people they were healing/buffing etc.... It was a great place to relax and just chat....no one in my grinding groups really worked on routines, they simply ran flourish macros to get as much xp as possible and as fast as possible...so I never got to see the life of an ATK master entertainer/dancer/musician....

Aeschyl says:
...I simply assumed most people there were doing what I was doing....or badge grinding

Aeschyl says:
As an AFK buff bot...I had little to no interaction with the community (though I would monitor the group chat and pop in every once in a while to "startle" the group that I was buffing and convince them that I was ATK - I ran my buff bot from a laptop that was sitting next to my desktop - It made for some quite eventful nights)

Esharra says:
What is your opinion on this?

Aeschyl says:
My opinion is...that people will be who they are, and will think of themselves first before they think of others....so in this regard, I would fully expect bots to return If dancer was given something of value again....the only way I see to rid us of afk bots Is to remove recursive macros, and ACTUALLY FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT - however, people are Intelligent, exploits will be found....

Aeschyl says:
...(3rd party programs etc.....)

Aeschyl says:
so with this in mind....I see no way of avoiding it....I hope I am wrong though

Esharra says:
Considering you deliberately kept to yourself in a space unable to hold many people and didn’t socialize much or let others know you were the bot's owner, I can see how you could be fairly oblivious to the situation that bots caused for entertainers. I know you've been friends with a few other bot owners. Do you think they are equally unaware of the problems they caused?

Aeschyl says:
No

Aeschyl says:
but they dId not Include me In theIr "schemes" or conversatIons

Esharra says:
Do you think that there is anything that entertainers can do to dissuade the bot owners from continuing to destroy our professions or is satisfying their greed too important to them?

Aeschyl says:
There is no way to convince people to not take advantage of an easy way to make easy credits

Message Edited by Esharra on 05-27-2005 01:00 AM

Ryal, the developers are the ones who started the talk about removing recursive macros in order to stop AFK "play". It was not something we entertainers demanded. Many entertainers use recursives in various forms, but since it is the only option the devs appear to be willing to work with, we have to accept it. There are other possibilities, but if the dev team is set on removing the recursive macro, there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. Also, it was actually mentioned in the conversationthatthe removal of recursives would be easy to bypass by those willing to do what it takes to do so.

Eshi, if you haven't already, might I suggest that you forward that chat to the devs? I hope it would be a bit of an eye opener for them.

Eh, I'm just bitter. I'm not on the former buff bots server, so I don't really have to make a difficult decision like Esharra. But, you know, I can imagine if someone like Brite, or Kalista, or Elektra, or Shalina, or any number of bots wanted to become a real entertainer...hehehehehe, yeah...I'm not even gonna tell you how I'd react because I'd probably get banned. And, of course, it always concerns me when someone seems to turn their thinking around at the precise moment that they realize they've become useless.

Very convenient time, if I do say so.

Maybe, a year from now, if we do get something, and the former bot does not go back to botting, I might be willing to say they've changed. I don't believe there are really any dues to be paid. I have no desire to go around specifically punishing people or making them flog themselves. I mean, really, actions speak louder than words. And, the only action that I care about is the person not botting ever again. And, that is not going to be proven unless we get something useful that can be botted, and they don't go back into the biz.

But, alas, it's not my decision to make, nor do I have to deal with it. And, for the sake of Kettemoor, I hope something similar doesn't happen there, because I'll be packing my pistols, and it won't be pretty.

---

Drygo wrote:

Eh, I'm just bitter. I'm not on the former buff bots server, so I don't really have to make a difficult decision like Esharra. But, you know, I can imagine if someone like Brite, or Kalista, or Elektra, or Shalina, or any number of bots wanted to become a real entertainer...hehehehehe, yeah...I'm not even gonna tell you how I'd react because I'd probably get banned.

---

---

Esharra wrote:

As it is..he gave away the bot 4 months ago and that was before I came to know him.

---