Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
KaiaClodgah wrote:
live entertainers don't exist on Corbantis? Odd, Keith...I remember distinctly buffing you and the rest of the rebels at Zyris-Vy's PvP event on Tat less than a month ago....
Yeah that was really cool. Alot of the time itis hard to find live entertainment. I dont see live performances 24' 7 on corbantis. Anyways I dont want to argue with anymore people. I guess I pissed everyone off so I'll shut up now :-)
Hurlobacca, You seem to have misinterpreted the intention of my posting so allow me to clear up a few things:
1) I'm often one of those poor off hours players. Or at least I think I am, but I have never been able to get any official proclamation of exactly what the off hours are. There was no slam intended.
2) My reference to vending machines was not about selling items on a vendor. I call robot buffers vending machines because.. well... they are.
3) I'm not calling you a liar because you went into Coronet cantina and found no live entertainers. But if I go into the Pirate Outpost on Danooine and see no combat players taking missions should I then assume that there's not one combatant on the entire server? The fact of the matter is, entertainers of all skill levels have been *driven* from the profession and from the cantinas
4) I don't have my Wanderhome character in my sig for the simple reason that my character there is no longer actively entertaining. It lost all semblence of fun. Those who know me and need my services as an entertainer contact me directly and I leave the battlefied to assist them. Occassionally, to take a break from combat, I'll find an isolated theater or cantina and play some music but you will most certainly never find me in Coronet. And I am not the only entertainer on Wanderhome (or any server for that matter) who has taken that approach.
5) Neither of my characters are strictly entertainers. They are actively involved in the GCW and involved in combat on a regular basis. So yes, I do happen to know how much time it takes to preparefor combat.
6) I have never once whined or cried that the devs should cater to my needs. If I did I can assure you that I'd have been whining that there was never anyone around during off hours who had mind wounds so that I could gain the required healing xp as an entertainer. I would have been whining that I was unable to play at times when forming a large group was possible and therefore I had no access to difficult quests/missions that required a group to complete. I have instead tried to explain why I will not ever condone AFKing any profession or skill. I have instead tried to explain why robot vending machines make it difficult for live entertainers to enjoy their chosen profession.
7) My method to combat the current pavlovian addiction to vending machines (again this is about buff bots not sales vendors), is to make myself available to travel, often at a moment's notice, to those who contact me needing a buff. I long ago gave up "staffing" cantinas on Wanderhome since using the /report feature did nothing and as soon as those involved learned that I had reported their offensive behavior they began actively stalking me.
8) The issues of not tipping and the lack of live entertainers are indeed deeply intertwined and why I brought it up. Your issue was that there were so few entertainers and that because of this vending machines were introduced. Thus it was your contention that the entertainer community some howbrought this plague upon ourselves. My argument is that since our goal was to play a game and have fun and we could not make money for healing or have fun in the cantinas, we had to go else where. I applaud that you always use live entertainers for healing and always tip. But the fact of the matter is people like you who tip and help live entertainers achieve their goals make up perhaps 1% of the server population. On large servers, entertainers can still get by because that 1% will be a fairly large number of individuals. On small servers... well... entertainers are just out of luck. Also, I happen to know at least a few players who never tip entertainers for healing but always tip their robot buff vendor... go figure.
9) What is it that makes someone, who even admits "I don't know if I know you or haveseen you inany cantina"assume that because Iargue that entertainers have been driven from the cantinas and from the profession because of robot vending machines and inconsiderate and often hostile "patrons" that some how I must be a crappy entertainer? And I'm not just directing this at you because it's a common suggestion. I just would love to know where it's coming from.
If you or any other player chooses to use a robot vendor then that's your choice.I may not like it. I may even come in here and rant to my fellow dancers that I'm sick and tired ofrobot vendors who "howl" "scream" andotherwise make a lot of rukus while in the cantina and the rude patrons who belittle us because we are not robots. However, when you come into the dancer forum and proclaim "you guys were not available when we needed you so you have only yourselves to blame" then you can bet your last credit I'm going to tell you that's just plain wrong.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
/cheer! Someone who understands what I'm talking about.
Satyra wrote:
"Anyone with an ounce of personality (not directed at you, just a general statement) ought to be able to steal that business from an afk buffer."
funny you should say that..i have now made it my mission that a lil' bit each day, i go to a popular buffbot spot on Dantoine and i take the biz. I don't do it in a grieving way, I go in there and actually entertain and talk to people (wow what a concept in this buffbot community). And you know what..i have a blast and they all appreciate it and i've never buffed so much in my life! lol I think if more entertainers would take back what's rightfully theirs...that would be an even sooner end to the buffbot situation. Everyone of those all for buff bots need to think of this...would you pay to go to a concert where they are lip-synching (sp) the words to a recorded tape (kind of like a looped macro) or do you pay and expect to see an actual live performance?
Sswift Jobar/Krimson n'Clover/Lela/Jocelynn Jobar/ etc...etc...etc....
Ikewe wrote:
Hurlobacca wrote:
The emergence of buffbots was due to a combination of combat mechanics andthefailure of the entertainer community to provide these services on a consistent enough basis to keep the combat players from finding a more reliable source for their buffs. It's absolutely absurd for entertainers to complain about buffbots stealing business from them when they (collectively) were the ones who opened the door for buffbots to begin with. I'd also be interested to know whatpercentage of entertainers opposed to buffbots mastered their profession AFK.
With all due respect, that's so far off the mark I can't believe you actually think that could be the truth. Look, I'm telling you thatquite oftenI went to the Cnet cantina on Wanderhome only to find no entertainment buffers. Dispute that all you want I could care less. Call me a liar or call me deluded but when I go into the cantina and ask if anyone is mind buffing only to get no response I naturally assume that nobodyis in fact available rather than assume some entertainer has a case of stage fright.
Robot buff vendors were *not* introduced to provide a service to anyone other than the person running the robot. I never said it was a selfless act of community service I simply said they will fulfilling a role that real live entertainers could not because they were often nowhere to be found.
If they had been a purely selfless act of wanting to provide the poor off-hoursplayers or less populated servers with 23/7 healing and buffing then they would have been FREE from day one. Wow, what hubris! "Poor off-hours players?" Get off your high horse. Just because I'm playing at different times than other players doesn't mean I'm less deserving of enjoying the game.
Robot buff vendors were introduced not because there was a lack of entertainers to provide the servicebut because people recognized that if they created a vending machine that charged 10K then people wouldn't bother looking for a non-robot because by the gods they were in a hurry! Don't drag the poor defenseless vendor machines into this. I have six of them I keepwell stockedand I love the fact that players can shop them while I'm at work or play and usually find what they need. I'm also smart enough to know that if I don't have what they want they will look elsewhere and I'm ok with that. I can't be available at all times and it's ok with me if someone else gets the business as there is plenty to go around. If they want something custom I can do that too. Your so caught up in the mindset that the game should revolve around you that you dont' realize how ridiculous it sounds to the rest of us that you can't overcome competition from a player that is not even there. Anyone with an ounce of personality (not directed at you, just a general statement) ought to be able to steal that business from an afk buffer. In the case of wanderhome, drewpa gets a lot of his business because he's invested in SEA's to boost his buffs with money he made buffing people when other entertainers were not around. And what's wrong with being in a hurry? At the time when ent buffbots appeared on Wanderhome, time was a critical issue. Shuttle waits were ten minutes so by the time you shuttled into cnet, got your med buffs and mind buffs and shuttled to wherever you were going, you were probably online for an hour. If you only play as an entertainer, then you just log in and out from the cantina and you are already ready to play the game the way you like that it. That's great but it doesn't work that way for everyone else.
They would simply travel to the vending machine and voila..easy money for the owner. I too play on less populated servers. As an entertainer on Shadowfire and Wanderhome I can tell you quite honestly that the reason you can't find entertainers in the cantina is that 1) we can't make enough money there and 2) it's not fun in there any more. We left the cantinas because combat players drove us out with their decision to not tip for healing and to only use robots. Now that you are faced with having your robots disappear it's suddenly our fault for being scarce? Talk about a whole lotta nerve! The fact that you have your Shadowfire toon's name in your sig but not the Wanderhome toon tells me something. I don't kow if I've ever heard of you or seen you in any of the cantinas but I have been to the Cnet cantina hundreds of times for buffs and healing and I can say for a fact that you never sent me a tell asking if I would be interested in a mind buff. Since Drewpa is located in one of the alcoves it's obvious which players are getting buffs from him. How many times have you sent any of those players a mail asking them to consider using your services next time they visit the cantina for buffs? I thought artists were supposed to be the creative type but rather than trying to out-think an afk bot you instead choose to whine and cry for the devs to force everyone to cater to you. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. I'm sorry if you weren't sufficiently entertaining to earn the money you needed. I certainly agree that if you don't enjoy entertaining by all means find something else to do. I never used buffbots for healing, I only used them for buffs and I always tip between 5 and 10k depending on how long I listened. I understand the passive nature of BF healing means someone can heal up and take off without paying up, but let's not get our issues mixed up here as that's another matter entirely and I'm sure that those same players don't tip the buffbots either if that's any consolation.
I do not even advertise that I am a musician on Wanderhome because of the type of crap Iam subjected to on a daily basis when Iplay in a cantina. It has improved over the past few months but not enough to make me feel thatmy efforts are wanted.
I'm sorry to hear that you've been victimized by abusive players, but that sounds like something a CSR should deal with rather than a developer. It's a game after all and we're all here to have fun so don't let people walk all over you. I've enjoyed meeting and interacting with the entertainers I've patronized and I've always appreciated what they do for me and am always certain to compensate them for their services but if someone else is offering a superior product or service and you can't seem to think of a way to capture some of that business then I simply don't know what to tell you.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Sswift wrote:
Just a thought (and I have been on both sides of the fence at one time or another) but it is a "live" player that pays the fee for the buffbots accounts - they should be able to use them to benefit others as they see fit.
If this is true then I hope you don't mind that I want to use my $15/mo to follow your character around to every shuttle and starport you use and loadkill you every time I can. I might also go to the cloner and camp that too, depending on my mood.
It is my $15/mo after all, and I may use it as I see fit. And since I bought this gun in real life, I hope you don't mind if I shoot you with it. Because, after all, I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want with it, right?
My point? You can use your $15 however you want as long as it doesn't infringe upon other peoples' ability to use THEIR $15. Buffbots actively (and in 99% of the cases, deliberately) destroy the game for the subset of people who enjoy playing entertainers.
And I'm going to sum up a response to Hurlobacca with just this -- This is a game, not a job. Do you have to spend all your in game type typing up letters and pleas to Nightsisters begging you to let you kill them? Do you have to say "Ms. Nightsister, I see that you are letting some other combatant kill you. Next time I'd like to ask that you come to me to die first...?" So why should I have to beg people to come to me for services? If I was competing with other live people and having issues, yes, I would need to put in more effort, but to expect people to work as hard as a real life job to convince people to not use NPCs in a game is just rediculous. This doesn't even take into account that the current system rewards the people most who put the least effort in, which completely negates your supposition that all we lazy people need to do is work harder.
Joker9125 wrote:
Looks like yall got your wish in the CU. I went afk with a kneel/stand grinding macro going (I was in the campus library workinon a paper)and got logged out. I even threw up an auto clicker to make sure I'd stay in the game. Im really glad buffs are not going to be that big of an advantage post CU because it looks like I wolnt be getting to many more of em at the hours I play.
Ah! Finally someone who says they play at strange hours. So can you please elaborate as to what these hours are?
I'll freely agree that it is harder and harder to find non-afk entertainers these days but I'll also point out that every person who used an afk dispensing machine while there were live entertainers there has helped to create that problem so be sure to smack them in the head when you see them. Just because you don't see a live entertainer in the cantina doesn't mean there aren't any around. If you go to a mission terminal and don't see another combat player do you assume none are online? Before the afk craze really took hold I spent a full 80% of my time in the cantinas. Now I might spend 20%. That other 80% of the time I am out in the field exploring POI's, killing things for loot, completing quests, etc.. Entertainers were forced to create their own content and create their own financial independence. I'd suggest you try to find entertainers on your server now and add them to your friends list. My server is fairly small but even we have a good mix of North American and European players who are entertainers.
But aside from playersnot being able to find buffs, I'm much more concerned that now it will be harder and harder for entertainers to find players who need healing. You can still advance, though perhaps much more slowly, without a buff. But entertainers cannot advance without filling the healing skill column. Any thoughts on how to fix that problem? After all it's in your best interest to make sure there are an increased number of entertainers rather than a decreased number isn't it?