Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Esharra
Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:26 am
#651
Tammylynn wrote:
TweekTweek wrote:
I dont mind AFK players as long as they are not spamming the area or AFK spawn camping.
Please help me understand something.
What is the difference between the two? (a buff bot and a Spawn camper) They both sit and wait for the next NPC or PC, both are AFK, bothare in the way ofpeople trying to play the game.
Thank you for helping me understand.
Both are just a means of earning credits in game while you're off doing something else.
Hurlobacca
Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:40 am
#652
The emergence of buffbots was due to a combination of combat mechanics andthefailure of the entertainer community to provide these services on a consistent enough basis to keep the combat players from finding a more reliable source for their buffs. It's absolutely absurd for entertainers to complain about buffbots stealing business from them when they (collectively) were the ones who opened the door for buffbots to begin with. I'd also be interested to know whatpercentage of entertainers opposed to buffbots mastered their profession AFK.
Ihappen to play on one of the lesser populated servers and I have no doubt that this change will mean that dancers will be be nearly impossible to find during non-peak hours. On our server we have one buffbot who performs in the Cnet cantina and he is there pretty much 24/7. There are many times when I can't find a doctor buffing at the Cnet starport but I can still get my mind buffs. I only started playing last February and I can tell you that even before we got our first buffbot that entertainer buffs were hard to find on a consistent basis.
I agree that Entertainers are an important part of the game and that something should be done to make them more than simply BF/Buff slaves for the rest of us but it shouldn't be done at the expense of the vast majority of the player base. A much more palatable solution would be for some way to be devised where live entertainers give some sort of bonus to their buffs that would not be available to afk entertainers. That way players would opt for live entertainers whenever possible and afk entertainers would be there to fill in the gaps when entertainers are not able to fulfill their role in the game.
Aynianu
Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:29 am
#653
Agree with everything Tralmek has said.
If you read many posts here TweekTweek you will see his opinion reflects the majority of posters here on this forum. We may be a little bitter against buffbots, but he has stated why already, and if its still not clear then it never will be for you, because what he said was clear enough for evenmy brother to understand.
Also on a side note, 8 months ago you started? You wouldnt have seen entertainers at their prime back then, afk was accepted everywhere then, Infact i would bet on you being one of those who afk macro'd a good portion of your experiance.
When i started entertainer i didnt even dare ask how macro's worked incase someone thought i wanted it for afking, because afk entertainers used to be booted from the group, they was not accepted at all even in coronet cantina. Only since the Holocron phase did this change (roughly 13 months ago), and its gone downhill ever since.
Another point is your reliance on buffs.
When i started i began with a lot of RL friends. Apart from me they all went into combat proffessions, one was a TKM with pistol and other skills stacked, this is back when people was only first mastering proffessions and a lot of the game was not really known, she figured having the extra defence from other proffessions would help out somehow so she got them.
Armour was not a common thing back then, and I personally did not even know of buffs at all. Nor did she, She wore my BE'd Tailored clothing for extra melee defence, she used muon gold to keep her mind from going, and had novice medic to heal her health and action. With NO ARMOUR, NO BUFFS, she was able to take down various creatures, such as rancor's, ancient grauls, etc. There was no corvette then, no DWB, not even the warrens. She could kill about anything except NS elders, ancient rancor's, krayts, kimo's without any armour or buffs, give her armour and she could probably take down anything that doesnt have rediculous kinetic resist.
Buffs are not needed, they improve you sure, and some places like DWB i would say they are needed to really get far, altho people on my server have solo'd DWB and i dare say on other servers too, if one buffed person can solo, im sure groups of unbuffed can do it just the same.
Aynianu
Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:28 am
#655
OMG that link was so funny.
That device really does exist, ive seen a lot of people around that must be using it.
Ikewe
Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:57 am
#656
Hurlobacca wrote:
The emergence of buffbots was due to a combination of combat mechanics andthefailure of the entertainer community to provide these services on a consistent enough basis to keep the combat players from finding a more reliable source for their buffs. It's absolutely absurd for entertainers to complain about buffbots stealing business from them when they (collectively) were the ones who opened the door for buffbots to begin with. I'd also be interested to know whatpercentage of entertainers opposed to buffbots mastered their profession AFK.
With all due respect, that's so far off the mark I can't believe you actually think that could be the truth. Robot buff vendors were *not* introduced to provide a service to anyone other than the person running the robot. If they had been a purely selfless act of wanting to provide the poor off-hoursplayers or less populated servers with 23/7 healing and buffing then they would have been FREE from day one. Robot buff vendors were introduced not because there was a lack of entertainers to provide the servicebut because people recognized that if they created a vending machine that charged 10K then people wouldn't bother looking for a non-robot because by the gods they were in a hurry! They would simply travel to the vending machine and voila..easy money for the owner. I too play on less populated servers. As an entertainer on Shadowfire and Wanderhome I can tell you quite honestly that the reason you can't find entertainers in the cantina is that 1) we can't make enough money there and 2) it's not fun in there any more. We left the cantinas because combat players drove us out with their decision to not tip for healing and to only use robots. Now that you are faced with having your robots disappear it's suddenly our fault for being scarce? Talk about a whole lotta nerve!
I do not even advertise that I am a musician on Wanderhome because of the type of crap Iam subjected to on a daily basis when Iplay in a cantina. It has improved over the past few months but not enough to make me feel thatmy efforts are wanted.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
LyteFoot
Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:58 am
#657
KaiaClodgah wrote:live entertainers don't exist on Corbantis? Odd, Keith...I remember distinctly buffing you and the rest of the rebels at Zyris-Vy's PvP event on Tat less than a month ago....
Well I got to this one late but what a crock. We don't exist? Just where do you look. I know that there was a huge group of us in Theed nightly for several months. Some of us have drifted off to other locations or to do some combat but we are still online every night and two or three of us are in Theed EVERY NIGHT. Even if not there all it takes is a tell to arrange a meeting.
So speaking for several live ents on corbantis that statement is pure bunk Keith.
DFazin
Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:15 pm
#658
I just hope that all of you who are against AFK Buff Bots, and or AFK Buff Shack's that u have never or never will use a vending machine. Cause I can tell you, I have been at the hospital late at night, all stores closed and the only choice I had was to use the vending machines, and I was happy they were there.
There are people from all over the world that play, and I have been on at 3 am EST time, and could not find any sort of Doctor or Entertainer around. I am extreamly happy I knew of a AFK vending machine that I could goto to get my Buffing needs, cause had it not been for them, I would have just logged off..Cause with out buffs I couldnt do half of the game play I do.
So b4 u all go and rant and rave how they shouldt be in the game, sit there, stop, and think. Think about the world around you, just think of all the things that we have out there that are self serve. And just think if u had to wait or had to find someone to do or get what u needed.. Once u have thought of that, please let me know how u feel.
Also take your home phone, if u have touch tone then you should just throw it away, get the old pulse dial phone, cause yaknow in away that's and afk dial turner, it turns the dial so u do not have to. Wow now, bet u all just never sat there and thought about it. U see an empty cantina and wonder where everyone is.
So yeah I do have my own buff shack, but yaknow whats really funny, when I do anything grouped like doing Nighlty DWB trips, I hire a doc and entertainer to buff my who group at once. ruin the game, blah....
Panthu
Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:24 pm
#659
Private bots have been around forever and most Dancers didn't even know about them. Shacks aren't really the prob. It's when they came into the cantinas that we started seeing the fall out.
DFazin wrote:
So yeah I do have my own buff shack, but yaknow whats really funny, when I do anything grouped like doing Nighlty DWB trips, I hire a doc and entertainer to buff my who group at once. ruin the game, blah....
Isleh
Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:31 pm
#660
TweekTweek wrote: Your not being honest with your self. You cant last at any of those places unbuffed especially if your an entertainer. One hit by a SBD and your bye bye. Buffs are required. If they were then why is huge lines to all the docs on C-net and the MO.
Friend, Deem on Gorath could solo the Corvett. Use to take friends and told them not to help and stay at the enterance. If she could do it by herself buffed, then a team could do it unbuffed.
TweekTweek wrote: It's from bitter dancers like you who are angry all the time and try to tell other people how they should play their toons. My wife is free to play how shes wants. Just like you are. No need for all the one stars
She has to be ATK to play how she wants dosn't she? Otherwise it's the computer playing right? We are not telling her how to play her toon.
It's funny. I mentioned a visibility meter on the Jedi forum and got one starred because I would cheapen the Jedi profession and make it to easy. Funny how when the entertainer community asks for the same respect, we are all "bitter Dancers who are angry all the time".
DFazin
Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:35 pm
#661
Panthu wrote:
Private bots have been around forever and most Dancers didn't even know about them. Shacks aren't really the prob. It's when they came into the cantinas that we started seeing the fall out.
DFazin wrote:
So yeah I do have my own buff shack, but yaknow whats really funny, when I do anything grouped like doing Nighlty DWB trips, I hire a doc and entertainer to buff my who group at once. ruin the game, blah....
That I do agree with, I use both live & bots to buff me. I just read how the buff shacks are hurting everyone, but yeah I can see how The live cantina entertainers can get upset with that, cause it clearly takes away from the people that are there for exactly what it was ment for.
Doriana
Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:50 pm
#662
I still say you can't apply one set of rules to one location and another to a different location.
It's either okay or not okay.
And it's NOT OKAY because even an ent in a "shack" someplace takes away from a live entertainer who is actually playing their character in a cantina because the patron that goes to the shack will now not go to the cantina. That's more lost exp for levellers, more lost business for live entertainers and one more person who sees entertaining as something worthless and only good to macro instead of the fun and rewarding profession it can and should be to actually PLAY.
It's a global issue, and the consequences are the same regardless of location -- the only real impact location has is in regards to adding spam to the cantinas/cities.
It's either okay or not okay.
And it's NOT OKAY because even an ent in a "shack" someplace takes away from a live entertainer who is actually playing their character in a cantina because the patron that goes to the shack will now not go to the cantina. That's more lost exp for levellers, more lost business for live entertainers and one more person who sees entertaining as something worthless and only good to macro instead of the fun and rewarding profession it can and should be to actually PLAY.
It's a global issue, and the consequences are the same regardless of location -- the only real impact location has is in regards to adding spam to the cantinas/cities.
Drygo
Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:32 pm
#663
I'd like to address a couple issues, that I've already addressed about 9435 times in the past, and on this thread. But, people don't read the entire thread. So, I'll post a few refreshers for the new people:
Myth: You need buffs to PvE.
Fact: I am not only a master dancer, but also a TKM. I am a Twi'lek. My max willpower and focus can only go up to 500. I can't even put on more than half of my composite because of the encumbrance to my mind stats. But, guess what? I drink two brandy's, and pop 3 ahrisa's, and I am not only able to put on my entire composite armor set, but I am also able to spam unarmed hit 3 constantly, without *any* breaks, and my mind does not move even a centimeter! If I die, it is usually because I've been poisoned and my health bar drops to zero before I can run away.
Myth: You need buffs to PvP.
Fact: This one's a little tricky to explain, and only those with higher level thinking skills will be able to understand it. But, I'm going to type it out anyway. First, I will admit that if the group or person you are fighting has a mind buff, and you do not, then you will most likely lose the fight. However, consider this. Where did the other person get their mind buff? Was it from a live entertainer or from a bot? If it was a live entertainer, then it's clear that your opponent is a better player than you are. Why? Because your opponent is playing an MMORPG the way it is supposed to be played, and using the tactics and resources available to him by making contacts with entertainers who can be called upon because they are considered friends. This is supposed to be an interdependent game. Your opponent has used the tools available to him to find and befriend and entertainer who will give him a buff at this particular time, or even on call. You have not done this. You *should* do this. Recruit entertainers into your guild. Respect them. Make friends with the Cantina rats. Tip the live entertainers. You will be surprised how much leverage you will have if you follow these simple steps, these tools that the devs have provided at your fingertips...searches, the /register is now working, recruiting, simply chatting with people...this will earn you POWER within the game. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
Now, let's consider that your opponent got their buffs from a bot. Well, without buffbots, they wouldn't have gotten that buff. You would be on an EQUAL playing field if you didn't have a buff. Or, even better, maybe you DO have entertainer friends, and you will own that battle. Now, shouldn't the person who is adept at making contacts be the better player and have the advantages? I think so. That's generally how it works when you need something else in the game. You've done the research to find a good armorsmith vendor, or perhaps you have recruited a chef into your guild and you have access to great food at low, low prices. 
Myth: Buffbots were a response to the lack of live entertainers.
Fact: The standard response is that this is not true. That the bots destroyed the viability of the live entertainer, and the live entertainers are getting fewer and farther between because they realize their profession is no longer viable nor is it respected. But, I'm going to even take it a step farther. I'm going to come right out and say it. Entertainer buffbots exist simply because they are *possible* and they require no resources or cost or effort except to log on and click *one* keystroke. Doctor buffbots exist, but they are few and far between because they require droids that need batteries, the macros are more complex, and they require resources that would break someone financially if they were given away for free. A doctor bot could *never* go into the Coronet starport and compete with the live doctors for any length of time because they'd run out of money pretty damn quick. There are also afk spawn campers, but they risk death and cannot compete with a live person who goes in and takes all the kills before the combat bot can get to them. An entertainer bot has no risk, no resources. They flourish because of this. They can go directly into the place of business of a live entertainer and steal all of their customers because they can be online 24/7. They are at your beck and call and require NOTHING in return, and have NO RISKS. I guarantee you that if any other profession had so little resource requirement and risk, there would be more bots in those professions that would be able to usurp the business of those professions. Docs would be screaming at the top of their lungs if a doc buffbot on every server set up shop in the Coronet starport and offered buffs for free 24/7. Mark my words...they would exist, and they would flourish just like the entertainer bots have.