Dancer Archive
Thread: How can I practice my profession any longer?!
We think that they'd leave the profession entirely if they couldn't AFK their way to master, or at least they wouldn't be zombie-ing all the time. The AFK zombie swamps are what chases all the socializers out of the cantinas and leaves them empty and soul-less in the first place.
It may be too late now, though. The socializers have by-and-large, quite the game, quit the profession, or started dancing in their own guild cantina. The public cantinas are dead. Surrendered to the AFKers, who left them empty.
C
NotYourAvgEwok wrote:
And what? You think all those AFKers are just dying to talk to you as soon as you remove the ability to AFK?
No, of course not. I expect they will leave to go play more anti-social professions like they should have in the first place. This leaves the cantinas for the actual entertainers to come back and enjoy.
This is very hypothetical, though. We all know it's not gonna happen.
- J
JenOrei wrote:
What about all those cantinas that aren't swamped with AFKers? There are a ton. I don't see any mass grouping of socializers in them, however. People act as though there are only four cantinas in the whole galaxy.
First of all, if you were a student of human nature, you'd understand exactly how hard it is to take a socially dead spot and make it alive. If you really want to find out how hard it is, try starting your own player cantina and try to make it popular. Noone wants to entertain in a dead spot with no customers.
Second, even if you DID succeed, unless you did it in a player cantina and took a hard line with bans, your new "hotspot" would very quickly attract the AFKers, and then all your work is for naught.
- J
picklesSW wrote:
Even if you DID succeed, unless you did it in a player cantina and took a hard line with bans, your new "hotspot" would very quickly attract the AFKers, and then all your work is for naught.
I can attest to this fact.
I was in Keren. I used to dance there with my tailor/dancer friend Aradia (who has now quit the game in frustration). Music was played by Stormbringer Lightbearer, an entertainer/pistoleer, and sometimes Palm Sun, a Master Musician/TKA. Just us 4. We all lived outside of town. There was a small but reasonably active-ish population of people who used Keren as a jumping-off point as they came into town from home/business.
They learned after a while that we were there most evenings, and the scene became a bit lively for a while. Then three new players joined, named Sry, Viral, and Yll-en. All active-at keyboard types. A quick survey of the Naboo cantinas told them that the others were all AFK zombie-yards, and they preferred live play, so they settled with us in Keren.
Well, now we had a nice, active group of seven players. But it didn't stop there. Because suddenly Keren became a hotspot. It became known as THE place to go on Naboo, on our server, for live performers. Lots of people started coming. And guess who started showing up? One AFKer.. two... three... four.
Now the problem with these AFKers is that they never leave, but we of course do, since we only log in a few hours a day. Why is this a problem? Well think about what happens.
I log in. I'm the first "live" person to show up. I go into Keren, and I find a group of 6 drooling AFKers bouncing off the walls, spamming tip macros. So what do I do? Stick around? Nope. I decide to go elsewhere. Kaadara's empty. I'll perform there. (Incidentally this is exactly the advice everyone keeps giving -- go somewhere else if the AFKers bother you.) But now Aradia logs in, goes to the cantina, and has the same reaction. So she leaves too, and goes off tailoring. Now Sry and the others log in, one at a time. Same thing. Everyone goes off somewhere else, because the AFKers are in the way in the cantina we used to play at.
Heck we even tried swapping to Kaadara for a while but guess what? The AFKers found us. They go wherever the XP is. So if you manage to get lucky enough to get a group of good live performers together, you won't have long to enjoy it before you again are faced with the choice of live with the AFKers getting in the way and tip-spamming, or moving on to yet another venue.
So there's the problem. Both AFKers and Socializers are attracted to groups, but the AFKers ruin the group for socializers, while being totally immune to anything happening in game themselves, since they aren't event there to get a polite tell asking them to cut it out.
C
So. let me see if I've got this right.
You won't go to Theed, Coronet, Anchorhead, or Bestine because there are too many AFKers who ruin your dancing experience.
You won't gather up a like-minded group of Entertainers and group up in one of the other cantinas because there aren't enough people coming in to talk to and apparently there aren't enough like-minded Entertainers to make up for the lack in conversation.
You won't go to Dantooine or Dathomir where there are always plenty of people to talk to because...?
If you do find a group of live Entertainers that you have fun with, AFKers start coming to the spot where you perform. You relocate but don't let the other people in your group know where you're at so they can come join you because...?
If you do let them know you've relocated, you have a nice group going again until the AFKers start showing up to ruin everything. You don't want to relocate again because you've already done it twice. You've said that players who prefer live performers followed you, making it a "hot spot." Presumably they quit showing up when the AFKs start showing up.
What I don't get is when exactly the AFKs got a foothold in your new venues. If you wouldn't allow them to join, and there is just one or two of them, it's not worth their while to stick around.
It's different for everyone. Everyone has different experiences. Some people learn to hate AFKers, others merely tolerate them. I don't know how they invaded so quickly. I don't specifically remember how it all started. What I do know is that I should not have to travel to countless venues, harried by this phenomenon at every turn, in order to enjoy the profession I chose and that the developers designed for people like me.
You would say to me to go on with life, ignoring them as best I can and finding ways around the problem. I, on the other hand, would prefer that they simply fix the goddamn problem.
- J
- J
i mean nothing that is being said in here hasn't been said one thousand times over. a little mod cleanup of these rediculous threads might actually improve the shattered community in here. people might actually post constructive ideas on some of the threads designed to help this poorly implemented profession. instead of bumping afk threads to 5 pages of crap.
You won't go to Theed, Coronet, Anchorhead, or Bestine because there are too many AFKers who ruin your dancing experience.
Correct.
You won't gather up a like-minded group of Entertainers and group up in one of the other cantinas because there aren't enough people coming in to talk to and apparently there aren't enough like-minded Entertainers to make up for the lack in conversation.
Correct. There might be many likeminded entertainers, but once you have an attractive environment, AFKers will creep in. They are attracted by xp and once you have the environment entertainers like, it's more xp than Theed. Which will lead to AFKers relocating and real entertainers fleeing again. Same circle. We are playing a peaceful game here... we're not somesort of fugitives.
In addition, for a good business this city needs to have a starport. Noone will shuttle if they can spend the 10 minutes average shuttle wait on 2 minutes bots and 8 minutes of his own fun.
You won't go to Dantooine or Dathomir where there are always plenty of people to talk to because...?
Because this sentence is dead wrong. I have been to Dantooine recently, and despite being at the Imperial Outpost promising free mind or focus buffs to every imperial, I met 5 people in two hours of play at prime time. Impressive. I met another 8 at the shuttleport when leaving. So much for plenty of people visiting the cantina. I did advertise my presence in that two hours. People stood outside with mind wounds and without buffs. 5 came. Lousy result, not even worth my time.
If you do find a group of live Entertainers that you have fun with, AFKers start coming to the spot where you perform. You relocate but don't let the other people in your group know where you're at so they can come join you because...?
Because it seems senseless once you've tried it. Refer to the catch22 situation above. What is fun to us is attractive xp-wise for AFKers.
If you do let them know you've relocated, you have a nice group going again until the AFKers start showing up to ruin everything. You don't want to relocate again because you've already done it twice. You've said that players who prefer live performers followed you, making it a "hot spot." Presumably they quit showing up when the AFKs start showing up.
What I don't get is when exactly the AFKs got a foothold in your new venues. If you wouldn't allow them to join, and there is just one or two of them, it's not worth their while to stick around.
xp-wise, it is. Once it becomes a hot spot ( and that takes days or weeks, you just don't go to an empty cantina one day and expect customers to pop up this day or the next ) it will attract people who previously listened to the bots. Less xp for bots, more xp for hospot. See where this leads ?
NotYourAvgEwok wrote:
You relocate but don't let the other people in your group know where you're at so they can come join you because...?
When did I say that? I told people where I was as they logged in. They eventually came to cantina #2. Followed a few days later by the same annoying AFKers. There's a limit to how many times you are willing to repeat the cycle. Being a GOOD entertainer means establishing a presence and a rapport with the clientele. You can't do that if you have to keep moving every time a squad of AKFers moves in.
NotYourAvgEwok wrote:
What I don't get is when exactly the AFKs got a foothold in your new venues. If you wouldn't allow them to join, and there is just one or two of them, it's not worth their while to stick around.
They seem not to care that we refuse to let them in. You could say, 'Then why do they come to your venue at all?' Probably for the healing XP but I honeslty couldn't tell you, as not one of them has ever been able to coherently explain it to me. Maybe because Theed with its groups of 20 is full? Not sure. You'd have to ask them why they do what they do. I can only tell you what I saw happen.
Also, remember that the person doesn't have a big patch "I will AFK" on his arm. Someone new comes in, acts polite, asks to join the group. Maybe even chats for a minute or two. Then suddenly they go silent. There's enough other chatter going on you may not notice. Then someone asks them a direct question and they don't answer... or they sit down to rest even though someone JUST did a full-heal on them. So you send a /tell. Then another. Then a third. Over the course of minutes. OK, they are AFK. Boot from the group. But by now maybe there's a second, and a third, and a fourth of them.
And like I said, they are always there, and many of them have /join in their macros. So we all leave after a few hours of play and what's left in the cantina? 5 or 6 AFKers that have been booted by the group. All it takes is ONE to return, /invite the others, get the /join in the macro to trigger, and bingo! AFK group. Standing in the middle of the cantina, clogging the dance floor, ruining the atmosphere.
That's how it happens. It's not some invasion all at once. It's a slow, creeping, sneaky, insidious transition from a cantina that is all live performers to one that is full of zombies.
I moved 3 times in my career because of the zombies. I started in Moenia till it was all them AFK and just me. I couldn't even get into a group because of it (not that I'd have wanted to) but just try getting any heal XP when there is a group of 9 AFKers or you are solo as a novice dancer. A few wounded people will preferentially watch a live person but most just go for the big, fast-healing AFK group, no matter how friendly and personable your dancer character is. Then I went to Keren, and it was OK for a while, until the group got big and the AFK zombies found it and over-ran that cantina. Then I moved to Kaadara and the same thing happened.
At what point do you think it is so all-fired unreasonable for someone that finds performing in a room full of AFKers to be unpalatable, to say, "I just give up?" I think I put more than enough effort and enthusiasm into it. I tried no less than three times to keep my cantina -- my NON PRIMARY cantina, non-theed, non-coronet, non-anchorhead, non-bestine -- lively, awake, and full of active people. Each time my efforts were undone but 6 or 8 AFKers who just don't care about any of that and were only out for their own gain. After a while, Ewok, you just don't have the energy to keep doing it anymore.
What's worse, is each time it happened more and more of my live entertainer friends just threw up their hands and gave up the profession, or the game. Of the original group of 7 we had in Keren, the others are all gone.
Fortunately, the story has a happy ending. I found peace and active entertainers and a good venue with my guild. But not every entertainer is as lucky.
No matter how you try to slice it, the fact remains that AFKers and socializers are both looking for big groups, and the AFKers have more staying power than socializers because they can make it unpleasant for us, but we really can't make it unpleasant for them, because they're not there to notice. So they win, every time. Because what player in his right mind is going to keep doing something that is unpalatable to him when this is a GAME? Hmmm?
So active people give up, and the AFKers are all that's left.
C