Dancer Archive
Thread: How can I practice my profession any longer?!
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=214366
ouch. other boards aren't so forgiving of her trolling.
Chessack wrote:
I can attest to this fact.
I was in Keren. I used to dance there with my tailor/dancer friend Aradia (who has now quit the game in frustration). Music was played by Stormbringer Lightbearer, an entertainer/pistoleer, and sometimes Palm Sun, a Master Musician/TKA. Just us 4. We all lived outside of town. There was a small but reasonably active-ish population of people who used Keren as a jumping-off point as they came into town from home/business.
They learned after a while that we were there most evenings, and the scene became a bit lively for a while. Then three new players joined, named Sry, Viral, and Yll-en. All active-at keyboard types. A quick survey of the Naboo cantinas told them that the others were all AFK zombie-yards, and they preferred live play, so they settled with us in Keren.
Well, now we had a nice, active group of seven players. But it didn't stop there. Because suddenly Keren became a hotspot. It became known as THE place to go on Naboo, on our server, for live performers. Lots of people started coming. And guess who started showing up? One AFKer.. two... three... four.
Now the problem with these AFKers is that they never leave, but we of course do, since we only log in a few hours a day. Why is this a problem? Well think about what happens.
I log in. I'm the first "live" person to show up. I go into Keren, and I find a group of 6 drooling AFKers bouncing off the walls, spamming tip macros. So what do I do? Stick around? Nope. I decide to go elsewhere. Kaadara's empty. I'll perform there. (Incidentally this is exactly the advice everyone keeps giving -- go somewhere else if the AFKers bother you.) But now Aradia logs in, goes to the cantina, and has the same reaction. So she leaves too, and goes off tailoring. Now Sry and the others log in, one at a time. Same thing. Everyone goes off somewhere else, because the AFKers are in the way in the cantina we used to play at.
Heck we even tried swapping to Kaadara for a while but guess what? The AFKers found us. They go wherever the XP is. So if you manage to get lucky enough to get a group of good live performers together, you won't have long to enjoy it before you again are faced with the choice of live with the AFKers getting in the way and tip-spamming, or moving on to yet another venue.
So there's the problem. Both AFKers and Socializers are attracted to groups, but the AFKers ruin the group for socializers, while being totally immune to anything happening in game themselves, since they aren't event there to get a polite tell asking them to cut it out.
C
Probibly the best post Ive read describing as to why AFK performers annoy ATK performers. There are times when I get tired of doing the same thing over and over again in an attempt to gain XP, but I've always tried to do it ATK. (Of course I'm currently sitting in a camp staring out into space as I type this...Stupid vynocks. I absolutely hate them.) Anyway, back to the topic at hand...When I needed a quick boost of XP in either dance or music (watching myself do formal was just so...Bleh...) I gritted my teeth and did my time in Corella. Used to be an interesting hotspot in the day, but oh well. So as I was saying, Good post Chessack.
Interesting.. Heres my views, Im a 1/1/2/1 (or something) dancer right now, and yes, I afk. Im not suger counting anything I say so bite if you think im rude about you or something.
I did not start out afk'ing, I got to dancer "under my own steam" but the long long slow grinding of getting xp of dancer xp was hell, so I afk during the night now to get abit of xp.
Whats this? During the nights? Yep, during the day I will dance useing a macro, but still be at the keys, talking away to people comeing in, I dont know all this bullcrap about "OH MY LORD AFKERS ARE KILLING US! I HAVE TO GIVE UP! PITTY ME" person who made the thread, there ARE alot of cants around that are not houseing so many people, like theed and coronet, but still have enough. I dance afk in coronet during the night as its a **edit**hole anyways, and nothing will change that, sometimes I afk at my normall cant, but not much.
My normall cant... heres a little infomation about, I dance in Bestine Cantina, and Im a member of the guild REMIX, that has been set up there by Bis Cuit, theres little doubt remix is well known around bestine (at least on this server) as there is ALLWAYS remix'ers there danceing or playing music, talking to people as they come in, and quite alot do come in. Alot of them afk, but sometimes the cant dies (during school days or something) and so they go read a book or something and just go afk to heal anyone who does happan to go around.
About the main post of this, I dont like these kind of people, elitist dancers, they think there better and have earned there master (Of coruse they have) more then afk'ers, and afks are the scum and lick the devils asscrack, well, just think that alot of afk'ers you see could be asleep and be nonafk the whole day talking to people.
The only afk'ers I hate are ones who have alot of text in there macro like begging to be watched or begging for tips, its not needed and its spamy.
Bleh, flame all you want, I promice not to care, but I do welcome opinions.. (like from Brogg, he/she seemed smart.)
Oh theres so many things wrong with what you posted.
1. How is afking during the night the same as going out and murdering cats? Are you saying afk'ers bother you so much to the point its thr same as haveing your cat murdered? If so, I pitty you, weird person.
2. Whats time zones got to do with it? I said remember that some people afk only during the night while they sleep, some afk all the time as there holo grinders, I never said everyones time was the same, I mearly pointed out that every afker you see is most likely dont afk'ing all the time.
3. Theres a difference between an eltiest and being an **edit**, you, are an **edit**, I dont doubt you got Master _____ without useing macros or afking, I could care less, are you hopeing for your own catina every people come for miles just too see you? I know alot of Master dancers, ones who have not afked, and there nice people.. you on the other hand, bleh, no point talking to you, like I said, hate people like you.
I dont think you will come back and say "Oh good lord im sorry! I love afkers" Im sure you will come back with flames or posting why my posts are wrong etc etc, all I know is you have poor reasons not to like afk'ers, apart from if they did kill your cat that is. >_>
Yui_Kiy wrote:1. How is afking during the night the same as going out and murdering cats?
That's what is called drawing an analogy.
From Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary, 2nd edition:
Analogy: (1) a similarity or likeness between two things in some circumstances or efects, when the things are otherwise entirely different.
You asserted that the fact that you were at-keyboard during waking hours makes being AFK at night all right. Nvoigt is saying that it doesn't, and using an analogy of murdering cats. His point is that if you are a charitable giver by day but a crook at night, the giving doesn't excuse the crookery. Things that are wrong, are wrong at all times of day, and regardless of how many 'right' things you did. Otherwise, just one single murder, comitted in cold blood, in someone's lifetime ought not to be punished, because look at all the good things the person did the rest of his life.
But the world doesn't work that way. Murder is wrong no matter how good you were the rest of your life.
Nvoigt is saying that AFK Macrotaining is wrong no matter how much or little of it you do. He is using the analogy of killing cats to draw a comparison and make a point. Analogy does not mean the same as, it is a comparison. It means "is similar to in some respects."
Yui_Kiy wrote:I mearly pointed out that every afker you see is most likely dont afk'ing all the time.
A pretty sizeable number have admitted here on these boards and a few have admitted in game that they Mastered either almost entirely, or solely, by AFKing. So there are plenty of people who do it all the time.
Yui_Kiy wrote:like I said, I hate people like you.
You're doing what you accuse Nvoigt of doing: blindly hating someone and thinking you're better than they are.
You don't know nvoigt. You've never met him (or her). Heck you don't even know what gender he/she is. How can you "hate" something you do not know? There's a word for people who hate blindly, without reason. I'll let you figure out what it is. Hint: it's not "analogy."
C
There are the afkers who play it nicely - they place their bot in a corner, out of the way, don't spam "tip me/watch me" all 5 seconds, and choose a dance that does not make them wander all over the cantina. Those people leave the stage to the ATK entertainers, and serve as a back up in case no other entertainer is available. I don't have anything against them.
Then there are the rude people. Their bots spam "tip me" "Watch me" all the time, they place their toon in the center of the cantina, choose always the highest dance, no matter if their bot dances all over the stage and bumps through the other entertainers, they don't even dress their toon up, and often even leave the newbie knife in hand.
Such people ruin my enjoyment of the game. There is no excuse forsuch behaviour.
I think the Jedi fellows miss the point the dancer fellows are making.
It's not really the system that's the problem, it's also not ALL jedi-wannabes (that's not meant to be derrogatory, it's just a good descriptive term, they wanna be jedi 
) that are the problem. It's not having people coming into the cantinas and grind away entertainer/musician/dancer XP that they're objecting to. It's also not REALLY the holocrons that are the problem, it's the mentality of a portion of the Jedi-wannabe community.
Take, for example, any of the three fellows in my PA or Amon as well, as examples. They want Jedi, and I don't blame them, it could be a good time. However, they also understand that some people WANT Dancer/Musician/Weaponsmith/Armorsmith/Tailor/etc. They grind out their XP in silence. When they're in an empty cantina, they'll afk-macro, if the cantina is full, then they're going to be AT the keyboard, whether or not they're actually SAYING anything. When they craft things, they don't sell them on the market, as they aren't intending to stick with it, anyway.
The point of it is Respect. There are some that offer respect, and respect that other people are there to have fun THEIR way. There are others, whether they're a minority or a majority is irrelevant because they are the loudest, who have no respect, and don't care whether or not they ruin someone else's fun in order to have theirs. Well, this is a multiplayer game. People pay money to be here to have FUN. Doing your thing is fine and dandy, but at least have a little respect for the other players in the game, so that they have their fun, too.
This is why Faellyn, Pickles, n'Jessi, and all the other entertainers are so upset. They don't really give a flyin' hoot about the stupid Jedi or the method of getting there. They don't care about being in the limelight. It's about respect, and they're fed up with the fact that they have BEEN respectful of the jedi-wanters for so long, and gotten so much DISrespect in return, and so they're going to be prone to such angered assaults on said Jedi for it.
So the defense of "Don't hate the player, hate the game", which is the main defense I see people take for mistreating the other players for so long, is a crock. It's not the game that bothers them, it's the people who don't care whose toes they step on, or how many, so that they can do what they want. It's a more common issue than people seem to think.
And just because they say "holo-tourists", it doesn't mean they mean every single individual who goes holocron hunting and then grinds out the profession that it tells them to. They specifically mean the disrespectful ones. Those are the only ones that they have any negative interaction with, and they are referring only to those that they have a negative interaction with.
Fae, N'Jessi, Pickles, et al... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Me.
Oh theres so many things wrong with what you posted.
So lets go into detail
1. How is afking during the night the same as going out and murdering cats? Are you saying afk'ers bother you so much to the point its thr same as haveing your cat murdered? If so, I pitty you, weird person.
Obviously abstract thinking is not for everyone. Chessack already explained it better than I could. It was an anology. Being a nice guy 12 hours a day does not make up for being everything but nice the remaining 12. Or as I said about two sentences later: if you are nice to me only every other day, you won't call me friend for long.
2. Whats time zones got to do with it? I said remember that some people afk only during the night while they sleep, some afk all the time as there holo grinders, I never said everyones time was the same, I mearly pointed out that every afker you see is most likely dont afk'ing all the time.
Obviously s/he's not AFKing 24/7, or she would not p(l)ay this game. But AFKing only 16 hours a day doesn't actually makes someone a good person. Stabbing some random victim only half to death does not mean you did a good deed because you left him alive ( Warning, anology, abstract thinking required, for external or internal use only, this does not imply Icannot differentiate between a game and reality. It does however imply I got at least a grade schooleducation.). And if someone does it only when s/he is not at the keys ( uhm... like AFK ), it does not mean the rest of the players are inconsiderate either. The rest of the community is there and is affected by what the person macroing is (not) doing.
3. Theres a difference between an eltiest and being an **edit**, you, are an **edit**, I dont doubt you got Master _____ without useing macros or afking, I could care less, are you hopeing for your own catina every people come for miles just too see you? I know alot of Master dancers, ones who have not afked, and there nice people.. you on the other hand, bleh, no point talking to you, like I said, hate people like you.
I am an *edit* ? Wow. I liked elitest better, it somehow sounded leet 
And it was easier to pronounce than these *s. Well, I sure use macros. And I was AFK doing it at least once. Then I noticed that it sucks for everyone else, so I gave it up. That was in my first box dancing in novice entertainer. I don't have my own cantina and if you ask the band, they would probably say I'm quite reserved. I'm not a star, I just want to have fun playing a game. You do not even know me in game, so you cannot know if I'm nice or not. But if you already hate me, just for one post in an online message board, then I guess you are more into quick feelings than logic and abstract thinking, and reasoning with you probably won't make sense anyway.
I dont think you will come back and say "Oh good lord im sorry! I love afkers" Im sure you will come back with flames or posting why my posts are wrong etc etc, all I know is you have poor reasons not to like afk'ers, apart from if they did kill your cat that is. >_>
After you told me there are so many things wrong with my post, what do you expect ? BTW: I don't even ever had a cat. I have the same reason to dislike AFKers that you have to dislike killstealers, aimbotters, maphackers and all the other people out there who do things that are wrong with a single reasoning: "Because I can". That is not a justification. Thats a lame excuse. Those people should try that reasoning with anyone else... it won't work.
Sounds about right, Asmodeous.
I finally got curious and opened a holocron. (No, it wasn't one of the ones I use as decoration.. It would be but I couldn't get the stack any higher.) It gave me a profession I'd already been dabbling in and interested in persuing. So I do it in my spare time.
It's not what I like most in the game, but it is something that I find interesting if I have nothing else to do. And it does allow me to spend more time with some of my more combat oriented friends. (And it also lets me come up with new and creative ways to describe how much ass I kick.)
I may even grind on occasion, if I'm not doing anything else and am close to reaching another skill. But I've never had a problem with grinding. If someone wants to power their way through a profession, more power to them. I admit that I'm a little curious if my theory about a certain elite profession can be mastered from it's novice base profession in under 15 minutes. To me, grinding is just a way of playing that involves finding all the secret warp zones instead of playing through the normal progression of things, to use an analogy.
When it was just a few people AFK, not many people were upset by it, because it really wasn't much of a problem then. But it is the type of thing that has a habbit of spreading unchecked until it is a problem.
I've been around since about august, was a master dancer which i got without going afk or even using a macro. (more out of laziness to be bothered creating a macro) I held it for about 3 months and it was by far the most fun i've had in this game period getting master dancer in the days i got it in. Afk entertainers were somewhat rarer at the time though apearing more and more, and it was such fun to just see coronet cantina packed and 80% of the people at thier keyboards talking, joking, having a good time. It didn't stop at with the entertainers though the medics always a mainstay at the time healing away would chat with the dancers, and there would be the ocasional stare down as a combat medic would come in and all the medics would start getting hot under the collar. I always had regular customers at the time that i'd talk to whenever they came in. Tips were scarce mind you as they always were but the regular customers always tipped well and more importantly took the time to thank you for helping them out. What an experience it was though as a new player starting out, just going to the tailor shop was an endeavor cause you may get jumped by something as dangerous as a crazed durni.
I transitioned into combat after a month or so as the profession began to degrade afking became more common and beloved coronet cantina was turned into a wasteland with 80% or more of the entertainers afk at any time. This was before holocrons mind you when jedi was "a mysterious and organic system that would allow the jedi poulation to fluctuate over time." And thats where i got out apathy was at an all time high, the most common reason people gave for not tipping or socialising was "why should i tip when i can watch an afk dancer and not feel guilty for not tipping." Coronet once alive was now dead yet the more remote cantinas were still going monia at the time was very we'll liked by myself and other master dancers for its better atmosphere. Yet with things getting worse and worse i quit, the initial shock was something else but dancer was gone and i mastered several combat and support professions as i watched my list of friends from my dancing days slowly go gray.
After a few months in the combat world i realy began to miss my days as a dancer and decided it was time to get it back for love of the profession, the oldfashioned way just as i did before. I picked it up and went to theed hoping to join a big group get the bix xp just like the old day's, it looked like itd be easy with the mass of entertainers swirling about, but it took some doing to get anyone paying attention to the screen long enough to let me in the group still i got in and the dancing xp started coming minus the healing xp for all the reasons im sure your all well aware of. And it was dull beyond what i'd left when i quit by a thousand times over, the medics were even gone replaced with stamina buffs and content with their tumblers off in the med center. Its just unbelievable the comparison to what afk entertaining was as to what the holocrons have made it.I tried other cantina's all the old holdouts moenia, even the remote reaches like dathomir all just as bad. The beauty of what the entertainer profession once aspired to was crushed beyond all recogniton, the only way anyone could hope to achieve it at this point is by afking itself, the problem is just feeding itself as more do it more have no choice but do it because its pointless to sit through.
Now i know this was a long winded post but its my second in 6 months of playtime so i just thought id like to share my story and my ideas on a solution. Number one i think entertainer clases should be removed from the list of holo professions generated when a character is created retroactively eliminating all holo grinders currently doing it. Number two i agree with the idea that the afk timer should be mandatory and no xp given for entertaining while afk.
And id just like to say hello to javier, sultrina, shianse, trubakka if he reads this. You all know me better as Iobea from bria.