Dancer Archive

Here is a discussion on the WS board that shows the areas of concern.

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Alissok wrote:
Interesting... The high end crafters on the Tarquinas board are very upset by the buff that gives a %10 boost to resources.

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Yes, and I'm not sure its a good thing.
There are two possibilities:
a) Resource stats after buff still cap at 1000. Then everything over 910 is the same. So basicly you can reach the same result with worse quality stuff. This hurts those that spend a long time collecting, harvesting and buying high quality resources (basicly the top crafters).
b) Resource stats are not capped at 1000. Then who knows what really happens if someone uses resources where the stats are over 910 , and even the average is over 1000 after the buff.

I assume its version a)

A few comments of my own (keeping in mind I have not been on TC yet):

- I agree with Coreena that Dancers and Musicians should have access to the same buffs - it seems like it will be confusing to remember who you have to get what buff from. Also this could lead to a situation where one profession gets some of the more useful buffs, where another profession gets not so useful buffs (like n'Jessi pointed out, tailors dont get much from the inspirations, and Merch and ID seem like sort of nice-to haves, So dancer gets kind of left behind in the buff area).

- Though it sucks I can see why you would not be able to self-buff anymore. If we got self-buffing ability they might as well just move the props and instruments one box lower, because we would always have access to them. It's kind of darned if you do, darned if you don't.

- Are the buffs you can do listed in the skill trees? If not, they may want to add that so that new players can see what they are working towards. Not everyone is a forum junkie and knows where to look for the information.


Lastly I have to eat my words. I was sure we wouldn't be seeing these new inspiration buffs for a year, if ever. From my experience as a Ranger hearing "it is almost done" = it will never come. I am very happy, no ecstatic, to be proved wrong in such a short period of time! /cheer for the developers and /cheer for Ent/Dancer/Musicians!

Can someone tell me exactly what "Increase resource quality" does? Does it magically increase the actual qualities of resources? If I had a metal with 900 OQ will it now be 1000 OQ?

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neinnunb wrote:
Can someone tell me exactly what "Increase resource quality" does? Does it magically increase the actual qualities of resources? If I had a metal with 900 OQ will it now be 1000 OQ?

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For the experimentation line if something needs UT and you have UT 900 then it will experiment to 99%.

This has a key impact on architects who with a buff can now make BER 11 mediums (without 100% experiment you can only ever reach 10)

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PoetDancer wrote:
If you all are glad, so be it. But all I see is an increase in spam, an increase in unattendedness, and increase in nastiness on the part of our patrons, and more frustration for us trying to do our jobs.

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I do not understand how actions that require click-box clicking and cannot be /-commanded or /macroed could possibly increase unattendedness. What, you think everyone is going to run out and DL 3rd-party click programs? Doubt it... most people who do the AFK botting are lazy. They do it because they can copy a macro from a website into a game and be done with it. Bot programs are not quite this simple and they contain major elements of risk (many bot programs are actually designed to steal your passwords and the like -- there have been many cases of this happening). Way less people are going to be willing to set up bot programs than to just use in-game macros.

We asked for something that could not be AFK macroed. We got it. I'm satisfied. Is it perfect? No. Is it a solution to the AFK macro-bot problem? Yes. (Assuming there is no way to do it other than clicking, of course.)

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PoetDancer wrote:
Expect an increase in those who are feeling robbed...on both sides of the stage. Because the procedure is so byzantine, and splits the responsibility between too many different people, that it is bound to cause friction, and animosity.

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I don't think so, PoetD.

The devs are working under a theory that just might be accurate for a change. They have given us massive non-combat buffs but little in the way of combat. Their theory is, it's the combat wombats who hate us, consider us down time, do not want to "waste" time in cantinas, do not want to have to socialize with us or even ask us for a buff (it's so hard to type into the chat window something polite and literate!), etc. On the other hand, they think that the crafters probably don't mind this... that crafters are likely to be more willing to be social, more willing to collaborate with enteratiners, etc. And of course, crafters do not mind sitting in one place for a long time because that is what crafters do (if you don't count factory/harv runs, it's all they do). I know armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, etc, who, if they are going to be getting buffs, will happily sit in the cantina and craft. In fact I'd bet a lot of them would rather do that, than sit alone in their house. They can chat while they craft, listen to us playing music, watch us dancing, AND get better crafting results all at the same time? What's not to like?

Someone said we should get ready to see high end crafting stations in cantinas. So what? I actually suggested and would support moving all the public crafting stations into the public cantinas and hotels anyway (along with bank terminals). I think this would be a great way to provide a useful place for multiple noncombat profs (entertainers and most crafters) so that we can all gather in one place and do our things together, and socialize. I wish they had done this from the beginning.

I am about to turn my cantina back over to the person who originally owned it (it's changed hands a few times but we were just taking care of it while she was away from the game for a while), but if I still had one, I'd already be placing orders with a master arch/artisan for high-end crafting stations that I could sprinkle around the cantina. All those alcoves are perfect. One crafting station and a couple of chairs (and perhaps a table for drinks, so they can have a nice Tatooine Sunburn while they craft -- and yes I know those don't exist anymore) per alcove would work just great I think. Yup, if I still had a cantina, that is what I would do. And I see no problem with it.

What we want and have been asking for is a reason to have people congregate in the cantina. I think, if this is really going to work as advertised (I will reserve judgement till it is put into the live game and I see it in action) it can serve to promote such gatherings.

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PoetDancer wrote:
Dancing is now just more clutter, more forced downtime, and just a timesink. It does nothing on its own but create lag, and is nothing more than a prerequisite for the only real "important thing" we are to do: these silly radial menu clicks that have nothing to do with dance.

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I am not sure how it is more forced down time or a time sink. It shouldn't be any significant down time at all. The crafter can listen to you while he crafts. Why would that incur any down time? Even if there is no crafting station on site, he can bring a crafting droid (I don't know any crafters who don't have one). Heck... since you can (or used to be able to) use other people's crafting driods, I might buy a set of them for Dejah and just have her drop a high-end crafting droid into the cantina when she performs, upon request, to be accompanied by the appropriate buff.

As for the clicks, what is the big deal? You will click a target, execute a single command, click an item, and then go about your dance. It's exactly the same as typing /startdance and then selecting the dance. Why is it a big deal? Because it can't be macroed or /command-ed? Good! We've needed that all along.

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PoetDancer wrote:
You finally have something coming that will convince the audience that you do something important, so they can tip you, and admire you.

But by doing so, now every unattended layabout, shrill, spammer, gimmick-named, and nasty autoclicked buffbot has something coming that will convince the audience that they do something important, so they can tip them, and admire them

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Point 1: I do not want an audience that tips me and admires me. What I want is an audience. If this brings people back to the cantina (hopefully in a way that they don't mind, which I am betting will be the case) I am going to be happy with it. I am tired of playing to an empty room.

Point 2: You seem to be contradicting yourself here. On the one hand you do not want to have buffbots around, but on the other when they put in a function that cannot be macroed (clicking) you rail against it. Which is it? Do you want the profession macroable? If so, that's fine, but then you can't complain about buffbots, because that enables them. Or do you want the buffbots gone? If so then an interactive click-box that cannot be /-commanded is an essential element and we cannot really do without it, unless they were to re-design the entire game to get rid of all XP gains while AFK, auto-boot people who are AFK, etc. (which they aren't going to do just for us). I'd agree that the latter would be highly desirable but it's not a fix that could possibly happen any time soon. So it's click-boxes and menus, or AFK bots.

I know which one I prefer. What about you?

C

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Coreena wrote:

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Alissok wrote:
Interesting... The high end crafters on the Tarquinas board are very upset by the buff that gives a %10 boost to resources.

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Yes, and I'm not sure its a good thing.
There are two possibilities:
a) Resource stats after buff still cap at 1000. Then everything over 910 is the same. So basicly you can reach the same result with worse quality stuff. This hurts those that spend a long time collecting, harvesting and buying high quality resources (basicly the top crafters).

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If they think that, then they are not reading the instructions carefully. Buffs can only be applied one at a time. The guy with the 910 resource could, indeed, bump his up to 1000 and it would be "just as good" as a true "natural" 1000 item, but that is what he will use his buff for. The guy with the 1000 item can get a +10% experiment buff and will then have both. The guy with the 910 has to "waste" his buff getting the better resource.

You're still a lot better off with the better resource, because you don't have to spend the buff on buffing the resource, so you can buff yourself.

C

If the only thing that is tipped is if we do the command, and click on the appropriate box, then all we will have is the effort to do the command, and click on the appropriate box.

That doesn't sound like play to me. That just sounds like a reason to set a spamming macro, put the screen on minimize, and listen for the "can u buff me" /tell, and the E-Mail beep. At which point, the player can put the screen on maximize just long enough to do the command, then go on minimize again.

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Vorpaks wrote:
I have to eat my words. I was sure we wouldn't be seeing these new inspiration buffs for a year, if ever.

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You and me both, Vorp.

Someone on our guild forum is offering to serve us some crow and humble pie. I will put you down for an order. I will have to eat several helpings myself.

C

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NJ62 wrote:
I too am unsure how I feel about the mando being temporarily used by non-master ents. It seems to devalue that box.

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It only devalues the box if the instrument or prop is what defines the box for you. There's still a tune and a dance that the inspiration don't give you access to. If Master Ent is all about the mando then you aren't really putting a great value on "Master Entertainer" anyway.

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Chessack wrote:


I don't see the point, really, of letting a non-MEnt play Mando on any old song. But letting a non-MEnt with an Ommni accompany me on Ceremonial ("sitting in") would be very useful, as I have many MMus friends but few MEnt ones, and a Mandi is not what we need -- more people who can play Ceremonial is.

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This is a good point from the standpoint of an organized band. The vast majority of entertainers, however, are NOT members of an organized band. They just do it for fun. They're not interested in "learning" one or two new tunes that they can play all of their instruments on. They're interested in "learning" one or two new instruments that will make ALL of their existing tunes sound better. The exclusive tunes and dances of Master Entertainer/Musician/Dancer are not nearly so valued.

For the casual entertainer, this is a much better value than a boost in tune would be. It means that if your sole reason for taking Master Ent is to get the mando or the torch, that you can now free up all of those novice dance/music and ID skill boxes you never use and do something else with them.

This is going to be important because, AFK'ers aside, there is a general shortage of entertainers from what I can see. If the buffs become desirable enough to cause a general increase in demand for the profession, then this change will mean that the barrier for entry is substantially lower. New entertainers, IMO, will find the profession more attractive if they can get to some of the "cool stuff" without having to completely blow up their current template. Those that are potential "true" entertainers will get tired of depending on buffs and will master the profession because they want to be a master, not because of one "cool" item in the box.

Slick, what does an organized band have to do with being able to temporarily (via a buff) play a higher song?

I play exclusively in pickup groups now (when grouped at all). A band does not have this problem (other than Ceremonial). Our band was all MMs and MDs -- nobody couldn't do one of the songs or dances. We would not have needed it.

But in a pickup group in Eisely... don't you ever get sick of palying SW1 forever? It's the worst song to begin with (IMNSHO), and it's the only one a newbie can play. But if you could buff him up to rock or folk, well at least the band could change music once in a while. Otherwise, you just have to play SW 1 all night. And when the newbie finally learns rock, and you all start it, you just know that at that very minute, another new player is going to walk in and ask to join, and he just started 10 minutes ago and so it is back to SW1.

I envision "song buffs" or "dance buffs" letting us do higher things benefitting pickup groups not formally established bands. Formal bands normally are populated by masters in my experience, and wouldn't need either a song or an instrument buff.

C

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Chessack wrote:
If they think that, then they are not reading the instructions carefully. Buffs can only be applied one at a time. The guy with the 910 resource could, indeed, bump his up to 1000 and it would be "just as good" as a true "natural" 1000 item, but that is what he will use his buff for. The guy with the 1000 item can get a +10% experiment buff and will then have both. The guy with the 910 has to "waste" his buff getting the better resource.

You're still a lot better off with the better resource, because you don't have to spend the buff on buffing the resource, so you can buff yourself.

C

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Nope

You get a buff for say WS and it has three effects - the boost to resources, the boost to assembly roll and the boost to experiment roll.

If you have over 910 (or 91% of any capped stat) then you have effectively 100% experiment.

The single buff is that if you want to craft different professions you need a new buff each time you switch.