Dancer Archive
Thread: New Inspirations on TC!
NJ62
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:39 am
#40
I too am unsure how I feel about the mando being temporarily used by non-master ents. It seems to devalue that box.
Eerif
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:40 am
#41
I'd really like to see if we can have the ability to self buff however. Not that I'm against the whole social thing, but I'll most likely be needing a constant buff as a crafter, and I fear for my bankbook when I go to the cantinas 
Panthu
Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:45 am
#42
NJ62 wrote:
I too am unsure how I feel about the mando being temporarily used by non-master ents. It seems to devalue that box.
No more than any of the other Inst/Prop boxes and Master Elite boxes though. It's just how it works since it buffs you into two boxes higher. I think it's nice, you are doing something to get limited use - you still have to train in the boxes to get full time use.
You still don't get the songs and dances in the MEnt Box, so I will want it on all the chars I have MEnt on now anyway. It's just a nice temp thing for my ones that I don't have room for MEnton.
Alissok
Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:22 am
#43
Chessack wrote:
Well there is a logic to this. The crafters can craft in the cantina, and are usually not in an exp.-gaining rush. They are usually not grinding the hell out of XP in tightly organized groups designed to maximize their XP. Instead they are usually, fairly slowly, going about amassing the required materials, experimenting in different ways with differnt bonus areas, to get the best product that they can. And of course other profs like entertainers are in the cantina anyway. So the thinking on this (and I can't say I disagree) is that the non-combat profs are not as likely to consider going to get a buff as "inconvenient enforced down time", and so they will be more receptive. With crafter droids (or, gasp, if the devs would just put crafting stations into the cantinas themselves) it's conceivable you could have a crafter sitting for hours in the cantina, asking for different buffs as he goes through different stages of experimentation and crafting.
That is the theory, at least. Whether it actually works remains to be seen, but I'm willing to try it. The way they have implemented this (at least how it sounds) is the key -- click boxes and dancer/musician's "choice" of what to buff (of course we would choose what we are asked for but WE are in control, and it's not, easily at least, bot-able). As I say, if it goes in like this, I am prepared to eat crow, and I will do it gladly, since this is 90% of what I have been asking for since the day mind buffs went in the old way.
C
On Tarquinas this is what I forsee happening....
Guild or individual A who has multiple accounts, a personal/guild lot trade city set to research center, and has one of the few high end crafter characters will slap his/thier max eff crafting stations in the guild or personal cantina and set up the master dancer/musician bot inside while they craft. Another person will see this and rush out to get their own setup or ask if they can craft their too. Cheat/hint sites will tell those looking to be a master of crafting professions to find/create this setup.
What I am curious to know is... Does this mean that all passive function has been pulled off entertainers? If that's the case the players on Tarquinas are gonna have a hard time finding these buffs as there are almost no ATK entertainers left for most of the day.
Coreena
Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:35 am
#44
Esharra wrote:
One of the top complaints about the General Inspiration Buff, as it is currently implemented on Live, is that there is nothing in it unique to Musician or Dancer. We are intended to have skills different from Musicians. This is something I can pretty much guarantee the devs won't be changing their minds about.
Nice idea for a compromise though.
Well I personally have no problem at all with the fact that both professions buff the same thing.
I more have an issue with the fact that Novice Entertainer and Master Dancer have the same buff, just faster applied - on live now, not the new TC version, there this is "fixed".
I have no problem at all if Master Dancers have the same buffs as Master Musicians. Infact I think its not even good if they have different buffs it will just be confusing for the people searching buffs.
Thats why I made that post. Mastering a profession has a real benefit over just being Novice Entertainer or Novice Dancer too.
So would be nice if you could still point the Devs to the post?
If they don't implement it I can't change that, but if we want changes to it, NOW is the perfect time for it, while they're still working on it.
Message Edited by Coreena on 08-23-2005 06:36 PM
Panthu
Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:39 am
#45
Nihuacatelco wrote:
sorry if i missed something, but are there lightsaber experimentation/assembly/etc inspiration buffs?
Ooh, no we can't buff that, but I think that would be a good thing. It's going on my list of safe quasi-combat buffs along with Smugglers' Slicing and Spice making.
It's pretty much the same thing as Buffing WSs and ASs, even if it's not the same player type.
PoetDancer
Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:47 am
#46
If you all are glad, so be it. But all I see is an increase in spam, an increase in unattendedness, and increase in nastiness on the part of our patrons, and more frustration for us trying to do our jobs.
Expect an increase in those who are feeling robbed...on both sides of the stage. Because the procedure is so byzantine, and splits the responsibility between too many different people, that it is bound to cause friction, and animosity.
Yes, a radial menu click is useful.
But what of the dance? It is now useless without a radial menu click.
Dancing is now just more clutter, more forced downtime, and just a timesink. It does nothing on its own but create lag, and is nothing more than a prerequisite for the only real "important thing" we are to do: these silly radial menu clicks that have nothing to do with dance.
We heard so oftenthat "forcing others into a playstyle" was bad. So now are we going to force patrons into paying homage to a process, after they get the only real thing they have any reason to care about? The stupid menu click they'll pay to get...attached with a dance they'd rather not have?
The developers had the opportunity to do so much more with us than this game of trying to figure out how to distribute goodies. And whether it comes via "/" command, or "popup box," it suffers from the same problems. We have evidence that it does not work.
I, or any other dancer can more than make it in this profession if it is a matter of amusing an audience. But if it is a matter of distributing goodies, any character with a macro...attended, unattended, or semi-attended, can do that just as well, if not better.
So congradulations, dears.
You finally have something coming that will convince the audience that you do something important, so they can tip you, and admire you.
But by doing so, now every unattended layabout, shrill, spammer, gimmick-named, and nasty autoclicked buffbot has something coming that will convince the audience that they do something important, so they can tip them, and admire them.
Because if there is one thing I have learned in this profession, it is that our best, most certain, and ironclad method in safeguarding our game, is to make the difference between Dancer A, and Dancer B be about the show. Not about distributing those things designed to get the patrons in the door.
This system makes the sunum bonum of what we do for our audience nothing to do with the show, or the dance. And that only hurts us in the long run, because the only thing that will matter to anyone is not how well we carry on, but the stupidmenu click.
Somehow, I knew something like this was coming. I still held out hope that we'd get a better game to play than the one on TC. And no doubt, I expect to be fully flamed, and told my view on these matters is ill informed, and I am being needlessly hostile.
But save your flames. You are getting what you want.
Its just that what you want is no game I want to play...[sigh]...yet again.
/EndOldSchoolLecture
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-23-2005 11:59 AM
Panthu
Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:51 am
#47
PoetDancer wrote:
Yes, a radial click is useful.
But what of the dance? It is now useless without a radial click.
It's not a radial. It's a slash and a menu combo. I'm actually not sure why there isn't a radial, but there doesn't seem to be.
PoetDancer
Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:54 am
#48
Even more complicated and byzantine.
Panthu wrote:
It's not a radial. It's a slash and a menu combo. I'm actually not sure why there isn't a radial, but there doesn't seem to be.
Chessack
Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:04 am
#49
NJ62 wrote:
I too am unsure how I feel about the mando being temporarily used by non-master ents. It seems to devalue that box.
I agree.
I think they should make it a SONG buff or a DANCE buff, not prop or instrument.
After all, when you are grouped with others, it's not the instrument that limits the group, but the highest song of the lowest level character. If the group could buff you so that you can play ballad (for the same XP as your highest song of course, not for ballad XP), then we would all benefit.
I don't see the point, really, of letting a non-MEnt play Mando on any old song. But letting a non-MEnt with an Ommni accompany me on Ceremonial ("sitting in") would be very useful, as I have many MMus friends but few MEnt ones, and a Mandi is not what we need -- more people who can play Ceremonial is.
(Same goes for dances like lyrical of course.)
C
Alphessa
Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:04 am
#50
First impressions of this new buff catalogue are good, I was a bit miffed when I discovered on TC this morning that I couldnt buff myself but after seeing how the new buffs work this isnt going tobe . The problem lies in the buffs cancelling out each other so if we were able to self buff and had a new buff allready then it would cancel itself out as soon as we started to perform. Unless we can get the basic buff we have at the moment stackable we I believe have lost the self buffing ability.
Im really hoping that these new buffs however become much more desireable than the present Live ones are and that finaly the zombies will pack their bags and leave.
/emote cheers for all the entertainers who are not AFK and havent given up
Alphessa
Alphessa
Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:08 am
#51
Chessack wrote:
NJ62 wrote:
I too am unsure how I feel about the mando being temporarily used by non-master ents. It seems to devalue that box.
I agree.
I think they should make it a SONG buff or a DANCE buff, not prop or instrument.
After all, when you are grouped with others, it's not the instrument that limits the group, but the highest song of the lowest level character. If the group could buff you so that you can play ballad (for the same XP as your highest song of course, not for ballad XP), then we would all benefit.
I don't see the point, really, of letting a non-MEnt play Mando on any old song. But letting a non-MEnt with an Ommni accompany me on Ceremonial ("sitting in") would be very useful, as I have many MMus friends but few MEnt ones, and a Mandi is not what we need -- more people who can play Ceremonial is.
(Same goes for dances like lyrical of course.)
C
I dont have Master Ent any more and miss my Mando but can get someone who is to record the tracks on a playback droid so no big change there
Alphessa
Alissok
Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:09 am
#52
Interesting... The high end crafters on the Tarquinas board are very upset by the buff that gives a %10 boost to resources.