Dancer Archive
Thread: Dancers to be rendered superfluous to game play
PoetDancer wrote:
Panthu wrote:
This is why I am thrilled BF is going away. Thrilled thrilled thrilled! I don't want to heal jerks like this. *points up*
Nobody ever said we have to. But I really don't care one way or another who I heal. I just want an audience. And why some amongst us have abandone all hope of ever getting through to our audience, I have found that if I make the effort to be amusing, I am quite suprised at how well I am received. I will miss having the opportunity to put on a show while these individuals get healed. But I guess if it makes you happy, then I really don't matter. Nor do combat players either, apparently.
Panthu wrote:
... and you know what? I don't want to buff them either! I don't want to have a darned thing they need/want! So I also totally support all of our new buffs being 100% non-combat only. Sure, there are plenty of power gamer crafters, but they don't craft by hand every few hours. They won't need a bot for 24/7 access to the bonuses we could give them.
Rather than having something so specialized and obscure in order to prevent 24/7 botting, why not just enforce stronger anti-botting measures? Or create a situation where bots are at a disadvantage? Because if what we are to do for a community is valuable, it is valuable enough to bot in any event. And all that will be done is to mitigate the ways we have to attract an audience.
Panthu wrote:
The thing is, I agree with the jerk. Socializing shouldn't have to be a part of everyone's game just because we like it. Just like everyone isn't forced to be PvP enabled just because PvPers would like it. You should be able to opt out of the Cantina downtime if it's not your bag.
I don't even know how to respond to this other than, when has socializing or not socializing ever prevented players from healing BF? It hasn't ever. They don't have to feel like they have to say a darn thing to me. It is up to ME and US to amuse them. Not the other way around.
So rather than make this profession about attempting to entertain an audience--and perhaps a hostile one--it seems some of us would rather haveour patrons"entertain us." When has the attempt to amuse ever been a crime? For it doesn't even matter if the players who come to the cantina to heal their BF are looking for a show. They will get one from me, nevertheless. After all, it is my job. And frankly, I'd want the opportunity to convince the "tough crowd" that I am working.
But alas, it seems that some of us lack such confidence that what we say and do in the cantina makes a difference, that they'd rather have the patrons entertain us, rather than us entertaining them. So who is the jerk now? Is it the fellow who doesn't find anything amusing for them? Or the entertainers who really don't want to be bothered by amusing them?
Panthu wrote:
I think we need some improvements on the Cantinas themselves so that they can really function like they are intended to, as a gathering place and social hub... BUT I do not want it tied to me and my playstyle so that other players can say they are being forced to provide my content.
Who is forced to do anything? If they are amused, they will tip. If they are not, then who really is to blame? I agree that there are tremendous challenges to our profession no other profession can match. But sooner or later, we have to face our responsibility and role. And our role is to dance and amuse. It was never up to us to have BF or not have it. But it seems that some dancers want to make it up to us to have or not have BF in the game. And why? Because a certain cadre of bluetags, past and present, would rather give up the attempt to amuse rather than seek out more opportunities to do it.
Panthu wrote:
No thanks. I don't care how many creds you give me, I probably don't want to talk to you anyway. Not IC. Not OOC.
Bring on the Ent Updates! I'm ready to be done with this crowd!
Frankly, I am not. So why are you shoving your vision down my throat? I have made a good living convincing the unconvincable that I am more than clutter in that cantina. And all this smacks of is a pretentiousness that we have been all to often accused of harbouring. Because it is my job to amuse this crowd. And I wonder if there will really be enough of a crowd left for us to amuse after they gut this profession of draws. Can you or anyone else guarantee a plethora of opportunities to find an audience? In the current game, all I have to do is go to Theed or Coronet. But after the nerfs? What guarantee will there be that we will have a public that needs us?
What is most sad about this statement, Panthu, is the utter lack of confidence in us as players to "win the crowd." Battle Fatigue is not--I repeat--NOT any sort of mechanic that is problematic for us, or for our patrons. It was buffs, or "positive reinforcements" that created problems. Because the fact of the matter is, if there is a limited duration enhancement that runs out, one needs a steady supply. And that can only be provided from a buffbot.
So I am glad that you feel good that you don't have to worry about the poor combat folk. I wish you much happiness dancing with the same few entertainer friends day after day.
But me? I will miss the opportunity to try and convince players like the above poster that I am an entertainer who works for it.
Because through it all, I have always been with my patrons. I am grateful for the ones that take care of me while I take care of them. We have always been together, I and them.
But it seems that just because some on both sides of the proscenium did not see the point, the game designers will rip us apart.
Wow, who is shoving what where? Panthu isnt allowed to be happy on this board?You may want to reread all your posts lately. No offense but I come here for entertainment notto hear so people complain, complain complain. I have a JOB for that. No the games not perfect but the endless ranting is ridiculuous, tedious andjust plain rude.
You are free to express your opinion but these kind of posts are whyIMO bf is going away. If I were a dev, I wouldnt want to make a player HAVE to use a dancer anymore either. You are truly acting the opposite of what you are trying to achieve. We are losingdev/player support more each day. No matter what they do/try to do for us people throw tantrums.
You go on and on about how you want & can win people over who loatheus, why not try being nice to your fellow dancers too?
Sian /Asania
PoetDancer wrote:
I just want an audience.
Because I don't think this is going to work.
SianGali wrote:
You go on and on about how you want & can win people over who loatheus, why not try being nice to your fellow dancers too?
PoetDancer wrote:
Because I don't think this is going to work.
SianGali wrote:
You go on and on about how you want & can win people over who loatheus, why not try being nice to your fellow dancers too?
No one knows for sure if its going to work.. but Dickering back and forth for sure is NOT helping at all...
PoetDancer wrote:
Panthu wrote:
Bring on the Ent Updates! I'm ready to be done with this crowd!
If this is not a "bicker," then I don't know what is. We are supposed to give these fellows a show. Not whine to the developers to "be done with them."
I was talking to him too!
PoetDancer wrote:
Panthu wrote:
Bring on the Ent Updates! I'm ready to be done with this crowd!
If this is not a "bicker," then I don't know what is. We are supposed to give these fellows a show. Not whine to the developers to "be done with them."
If he ever even cared that much what I thought in the first place. 
Honestly, I don't know why you care so much what I think or say, Sirii. I'm not even an active corr anymore!
Panthu wrote:
/whisper Q, I'm not a him!
What? Woah... *feels funny about tee cookie bidding now*
Mwahaha! /tickle
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Panthu wrote:
/whisper Q, I'm not a him!
What? Woah... *feels funny about tee cookie bidding now*
Panthu wrote:
Mwahaha! /tickle
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Panthu wrote:
/whisper Q, I'm not a him!
What? Woah... *feels funny about tee cookie bidding now*
Hahaha
I care about it, Panthu, because there comes a point when we forget what we are about, and we become in love with the idea of change, just for change sake.
No doubt we need changes. But this profession, more than any others, relies on the patrons to tell us how they wish the class to be played. With some things, the things they desire also promote the active playing of this class (BF). With other things, the things they desire promote the apathy and macroed routinization of our functions (The old Mind Buff System). Because it is not in our power as dancers to determine to them what they should want from us. It is up to them to decide if we are doing a good job or not. And all I am trying to do is suggest that perhaps we are in the clouds too much with our "blue sky" visions of what we think is important, that we may be forgetting the solid ground on which we have rested.
Our profession is one of the most challenging in the game. We have herculaean obstacles to overcome, and problems of existential proportions that no other class even comes close to truly understanding (except for perhaps post-CU doctors).
But there comes a point when the rhetoric becomes more important than the reality, and from what I read in the JFreedman post, it seems that is truly the case.
Can both sides of the stage honestly look in the mirror and mean the things we cliche on the boards? Is it really the case that going to the cantina is seen as something "negative and forboding," like JFreedman suggests? If that is truly, truly the case, then ultimately I feel responsible for letting it get to that point. Because it was up to us to make the cantina a great place to be. A place where someone could look forward to getting their BF healed. All I can see is that I am being punished for my failure as a dancer and an entertainer, and because I have failed, the patrons will no longer be "required to interact with me."
And what of us? Can we honestly look ourselves in the mirror and look forward to the day when we "need not interact" with our patrons? Have we lost that much faith in ourselves and our show that we do not feel up to the challenge? If that is truly, truly the case, then ultimately I feel responsible for letting our self-confidence drop so low. Because if we honestly believe the things we do in the cantina are futile, then why even be at the keys at all? All I can see is that we are being punished for our failure to make the class work and be cherished by the players we serve. And because we were not up to the challenge, we will no longer be "required to amuse an audience."
It has never been in doubt to me as to what to do in the cantina. In fact, cantina play is the most complex, challenging, and rewarding play I know. Nor is it lost on our patrons as to what to expect in the cantina. But I cannot help but get the feeling that I am being punished for the boring cantinas, and that the patrons are getting punished for our lack of a real presence in the places they are at.
Bless you, Panthu. You try and give us hope. But optimism for a vision I can scarcely comprehend does not help us when we log in today. All it does is make it seem like I will never again have the sort of honest, intuitive, and real opportunity to have a career where my efforts to amuse each patron and make them feel good about themselves and feel a part of something grande was all that mattered. And no longer will I have the faith that the patrons will recognize the effort, and treat me accordingly.
Wow, Madame Sirii Ajaan that was an amazing and wonderful post, you had me crying by the end of it!
Thank you so much for your elequent sharing of those thoughts!!
/agree
Kandi Flyer
We all have our roles in this simulation.
I do not think that the ranger spends an eight hour stint on Rori because it is the height of excitement. He or she does it because it is work he or she is good at and enjoys over the other things he or she can do, and it is valuable.
Nor do I think the artisan altogether is overjoyed at the prospect of maintaining mining structures, moving them to spawns, and loading vendors. He or she does these things because it is work he or she is good at and enjoys over the other things he or she can do, and it is valuable.
Nor do I think the commando relishes the prospect of going back to the terminal to pick two more missions to the northwest. He or she does this, because the other things he or she can do hold no interest, or they are not very capable at that sort of gameplay, and would rather earn credits doing missions.
There are many forms of "work" in this game, and each requires a certain modicum of effort to have it pay off. And since I am better at doing the sort of thing I do in the cantina than those other forms of revenue generation, I choose this as my vocation, keeping in mind that every other player in the game has their own vocation.
Now some may argue that we shouldn't consider entertainment a "vocation." That is all well and good, but then what vocation would we have in mind to pay the maitenance pool? Because if wedon't wantto do it through dancing, then it has to be something.
But one thing I have always understood, at least from my own perspective, is that if I want to make this a vocation for myself, I have to be able to show to someone or something that I have put the effort into the vocation. And I try and show it as best as I can.
Because just as we do not pay credits to those artisans who do not take the time to craft quality goods,and just asthe system does not pay the commando until after the mission is done, it is a rather difficult proposition to convince anyone or anything that we deserve to be paid for not fulfilling the requirements that are given to us.
Our patrons, by playing hard, "work hard." As a result, we need to play with as much energy, enthusiasm, and polish as we can, for their benefit, as well as our own.
It is my vocation. I take pride in what I do in the cantina.
Word of advice - don't dance angry.