Dancer Archive
Thread: Can't Buff Ourselves Dev Response
and lets not forget the buisness of running a cantina. Most succesful cantinas also include some kind of food/drink vendor which would require a chef and a merchant, they require promoting events which could require merchants for advertising. Effects bots and storage bots bring droid engineers into our lives and the decoration of our structures be they homes, cantinas, hunting lodges, dressing rooms require combatants for loot items (rugs, paintings, loot shematic decorations such as the kitchen utensils and that cool fish bowl thing), architects for furniture items, chefs for dining decor, and just about every kind of craftable component for the really creative stuff.
In fact, I would have to say that properly decorating a cantina could be one of the most expensive endeavors in the game if you don't have folks willing to donate all the items.
Ikewe wrote:
If I can't buff myself can I at least have them fix it so that I can get the buff from a musician even if I'm dancing? Or is my own dancing so uninspiring that no matter how good the musician I just can't be inspired?
I was able to dance and receive my buff from a muscian...?
This is what I wrote just now on the Entertainer Board:
If they are looking for an entertainer just to get the silly draw, I don't need them. Chances are, they really don't want to be there in the first place, and they just resent me for it.
The problem of this class has nothing to do with having something players desire from us. Its that I have no function to enrich my own game, outside of their interests.
Because to tell you the truth, they are too busy worrying about satisfying their own fun, to satisfy mine. And since I have no game ouside of what I do for others, and they know it, they know they can abuse me, neglect me, and ignore me, and I have no means to escape them.
Denying abusive players only denies me the only content the developers have decided to give me. Because I have no game ability as a dancer (with the exception of 1000 credit terminal missions) to retreat to, when the public doesn't want me, or treats me badly.
That is the problem of a game that totally relies on others to be fun. Its that I have no business being a dancer if nobody wants to use me. That is a degrading, and abusive relationship in the making.
Self-enhancement is more than just a nice thing to have. It is an essential thing to have. Because if I have no intrinsic self-worth in the game, it only reaffirms that I have no intrinsic self-worth as a player, and as a human being, to other players in the game.
Self-enhancement is just one of the things we need to give us the sort of gameplay we deserve, as subscribers. I don't want to be a character whos only function is to be used. I want to be a character who has a certain degree of autonomy, and dignity.
This profession is perceived to be--more than any of the others--a "feminine style" profession. Its not that we don't have many males who are wonderful dancers, and its not that they cannot be equally masculine as anyone else in doing dance as a profession, but suffice it to say that many view dancing, and playing music, as something different than combat, or crafting.
Therefore, it is a very ugly thing for a company like SOE to imply that these professions have no intrinsic self-worth, and are valuable insofar as they can be used. There are plenty of examples of women in Star Wars that are strong, and self reliant. Leia is a good example. The notion that we are something to be "used for someone else's pleasure" is not the sort of thing that is healthy to foster. Especially not in this particular profession.
Chessack wrote:
DO NOT include the point about alt accounts. It will just make SOE keep the system as is. The more alt accounts, the better for them.
Not if they do it to such a point people feel like the game takes too much time, too much effort, and too much money to be playable. Alts should not have to make up for poor game design. Players resent that and won't do it for long. They can't muck with the crafters much more or they will take their alt armies and leave.
That crafter player type often wants to have many alts because they want to do it all for themselves. That's fine, they are having more fun that way. People don't make Dancer bots to have fun though, because unlike crafting, the only fun found in Dancer is actually playing it.
That's why no one feels like they have to have a rifleman bot - that would be dumb, the fun in playing rifleman is playing it. You don't keep a sniper Alt Bot and only bring him out for a few minutes. If the prof was designed to only be useful as a sniper for rare usage and nothing else... and sniping was needed for successful combat encounters like raids or whatever, then we'd have a problem.
They don't do that though. They don't say "well, your real benefit is special use so you can only do this one thing if you invest here" (I know, because I remember the rifleman talks from the CU). Yes, people would feel the need for an alt for that because it would make the prof unplayable as part of a main char build.
They wouldn't feel it for long though, because they'd quit playing a game that dumb.
Message Edited by Panthu on 09-01-2005 03:12 PM
Edit: to give a concrete example, let's say I cannot wear the clothing I create. I go to tailor x and pay her for a new outfit. Then tailor x comes to me and pays me for a new outfit. So far we're at the same bank balance as we started and with a new outfit. I find this example silly, counterintuitive, and painfully forcing an interaction through artificial means, which amounts really to a hassle and not much more. I mean, what could be more frustrating than asking a tailor for something you can make yourself?
Message Edited by NJ62 on 09-01-2005 02:27 PM
Ha! /tsk C Eva'ngelene
When did you change the thread title? It looks like I did it, lol.
Message Edited by Panthu on 09-01-2005 03:25 PM
You got the dancer or entertainer buff or just the general? I was unable to get the entertainer profession buff if I was dancing. I instead got the general even though yes the musician selected the correct buff and yes I was listening and stopped listening to only that musician. On a second try when I was not dancing it worked perfectly. Should I file a bug report then??
FaedraDelauney wrote:
Ikewe wrote:
If I can't buff myself can I at least have them fix it so that I can get the buff from a musician even if I'm dancing? Or is my own dancing so uninspiring that no matter how good the musician I just can't be inspired?
I was able to dance and receive my buff from a muscian...?
Panthu wrote:
Ha! /tsk
CEva'ngelene
When did you change the thread title? It looks like I did it, lol.
Edit: C was wrongly accused! /apologize Dejah
Message Edited by Panthu on 09-01-2005 03:25 PM
HA! That's hilarious!
Well..I can't very well point them to this thread now, can I?
Panthu wrote:
Ha! /tsk
CEva'ngelene
When did you change the thread title?
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 02:41 PM
Esharra wrote:
Well..I can't very well point them to this thread now, can I?
Panthu wrote:
Ha! /tsk
CEva'ngelene
When did you change the thread title?
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 02:41 PM
Panthu wrote:Here's what I said over there:
Thunderheart wrote:
On the game side of things, basic Inspiration Buffs come early. The concern is that folks can take just a few basic skills to buff themselves and the Inspiration Buffs provided by dedicated Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be in as much demand as they should be because other players will be able to do it themselves.
Only the Entertainer buffs come early: General, Artisan, and Entertainer. If those are the concern, move them out of the Novice Ent box and into 0 0 0 4 - that way it would take some effort to gain access and dedicated Entertainers are still rewarded.
The other buffs, which are the bulk of the buffs and the ones of most interest, all require either Novice Dancer or Novice Musician. Now, if people are dedicated enough to get to the Novice Elite boxes, they are just as much entitled to the Dancer or Musician content as the rest of us. They'll have to do the buffing ATK which was the only real concern we ever had and most of us greatly prefer for people to be doing this on their main char instead of an alt.
It's not fun to sell something you can't use yourself. It just isn't. No matter what the fiction is, these are profession skills in a game. Players want to be able to use their skills for their own benefit. Change the fiction, change where the buffing ability is granted in our trees, but let us use our own abilities for our own benefit.
This didn't cut it with mind buffing and it doesn't with these new buffs either. We want to buff ourselves and the changes need to be made to allow it.
qfe!!
Esharra wrote:
One more thing guys..Please provide examples of how we, as Dancers (not from the perspective of the non-ent side of mixed templates) contribute to player interdependencies, on the "take" side (as opposed to "give"). Tailors being the obvious example.
What do I take... I take lots of clothing (namely hotpants). I take resources and crafting tools for props. I get guild halls, city structures (most notably cantinas and theatres) for my entertainer guild and entertainer city (still growing!). I use vehicles and parking garages like any other character. I pay maintenance for housing and other city structures. However, the majority of thesecosts are supported by my other character since there is no way I could make enough as a (male)dancer, which is kind of sad.
I believe you asked another question concerning why I should not have to be interdependant within our own profession. My reasons are as follows:
- I believe someone pointed out earlier that we inspire other professions, but we don't inspire ourselves... which is kind of odd. If you perform, shouldn't your character enjoy performing as much as the audience enjoys it (thus gaining the same benefits)?
-It's common sense for a person to use their abilities to benefit themselves as well as others. If I am a mechanic and have the ability to fix cars, should I only be allowed to fix the brokencar of a customer and leave my own car in the ditch if it breaks down? It doesn't make sense to not take advantage of one's own gifts or talents.
-If I have the same skills as someone else, why should they be able to help me, but I not be able to help myself? Going back to the mechanic example... ifI can fix my car for free, it doesn't make sense for me to use my hard earned money from my job to pay another mechanic who will do the exact same job as myself.
PS: I'm sorry for using a mechanic as a example, but the same type of logic applies to dancers. I just chose mechanics because I'msleepy. In reality I know very little about cars, engines or the work mechanics do. Thank you.