Dancer Archive
Thread: Can't Buff Ourselves Dev Response
GoGoGirl wrote:- YOU've given us some of the most unSWGish dances in the game ever possible, like Breakdancing?!?!?
Ok ok...I can see that you are very upset and I certainly dont want to get caught up in that...
....but I mean come on! Breakdancing is damn fun!
Especially for male dancers. I mean Erotic just doesnt cut it for a lot of male dancers or male spectators. But if a guy is bustin a move and having fun doing it, and he doesnt look like a male stripper or a psycho on crack (like some of the dances), guys will actually watch him. I know that breakdancing isnt very Starwarsy, but I think it is a lot of fun to watch.
Esharra wrote:
To clarify: I want to hear your reasons (give me talking points), not "because docs can buff themselves".
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 02:39 PM
Esharra, as much as i thought about "trying" to come up with the words, sentences and Reasons on trying togive our professiona more orless definition for the developers. Panthu got all those notes already from when she wasour DancerCorrespondant with our "talking points/requests/visions" already; something which i can feel that the developers have filed in the open plastic box beside their desks dispite her warnings that all this will come to roost.
Now i can understand if some of those notes are no longer viable to the profession since it's changed so much since then, but it is up to the developers to come to us and asked us "the paying customers" how is the gameplay and getting back some feedback, which is known as quality control.
Since i'm assuming you want "my" Reasons as talking points, i'll ask some following questions based on what i understand is consideredfor the current publish not for just the self buff issue but also on other things which i might not be aware of anymore:
- Are Entertainer Mission Terminals fixed and scaled according to the skill level of the entertainer? If not, how are starting entertainers going to cope with buying what they feel that they need that would enhance their game? Especially now when rumours of credit farmers are causing a hyperinflation within the game?
- Are Entertainers getting any rewards such as drops of items like from the Jabba Theme Park that is comparable to what the average player gets for their specific profession? Like a entertainer's hologram? a unique banner? a entertainer billboard?
- Can Entertainers craft anything that is useful to other players, that they might be able to sellto earn some form of income? Like a Music disk like those jukeboxes sold by NPC event promoters (which made me very mad when i heard about it)? a dancer's hologram that acts like achef food or a doctor's med and is used when the other players need to use it?
- What can we entertainers provide to reinforce the so called interdependancy? We buy clothes from tailors, weapons from weaponsmiths, armour from armoursmiths, buffs from chefs/bio-engineers, vehicles from artisans; but what can we provide that the developers haven't already takened away?
- What are the Developers going to do for us, considering that we're paying the same amount of skill points as any other elite professions butwe arethe least useful due to their nerfs. Will we be getting a revamp on the skill trees other than to wave pretty props around, get new dances which is for show onlyand blow smoke/special effectsout of our (it's your call on this one:smileytongue
- What are the Developers going to do for those of us who are full time ATK entertainers, to bring us into the GCW and give us a purpose other than to be tap dancing fodder? *Coughs* give us skills to be spies? Give us the ability to affect NPC factions? So we can undo the faction damage caused by those damn RED jabba thieves, valarian thieves in Mos Eisley before the developers made them non-agro?
- Why cant we self buff? Chefs and playerswith foods can self buff, Tera Kasa Artist can self buff, doctors can self buff, these self buffs are a advantage that others have that the entertainers are denied and is as i would call it unfair and unjust denial of service/rights/advantage to a certain group of paying customers. Yes, yes, "Yawn", SOE has the right to change the gameplay whenever and howeverthey want, but it disrupts a certain level of gameplay/interdependancy/quality/service/etc which all players want a guarenteed level of quality control to be happy with. Something that they have not been providing for a long time to the entertainers professionfor 2+ years. And as i see it, giving a self buff to us entertainers is up and coming as a reward to staying this long in a broken profession that the developers are half heartedly looking at.
Right now, idont think i will bother scratching the scab on a wound deeper, what is needed to be said is written on those notes and out of respect to Panthu and you, i wont say anymore until the developers pay more attention to those note which all so many ATK entertainers sacrificed their time on SWG only to leave the game with a broken dream.
PoetDancer wrote:
But what am I--and you, for that matter--under this new system, but a begging buff bot?
Speak for yourself.
Dejah Thoris is one of the premier entertainers on Naritus. Twice her band won best in the galaxy at the "battle of the bands." And not just her band, but one of her songs, "Winds of Naboo," clinched the first title.
Thus, Dejah Thoris does not beg.
Furthermore, character personality aside, I am not sure why the new system turns any of us into a "begging buff bot." What exactly do we get, ourselves, out of buffing? I mean sure, we hopefully get some patrons, but... if anyone is going to be doing the begging, I'd imagine it's them. And you can't argue that if we didn't have any of these buffs, there'd be MORE patrons. Because that's entirely untenable.
We have something they want. We are the supply, they are the demand. Since when is the person with the supply the beggar? I mean, Dejah Thoris is only a beggar in the sense that the oil companies are beggars when we go fill up on gas... which is to say, she's not.
PoetDancer wrote:
So go ahead, dear. Dancing used to take skill. But now, the only routine that even matters to our clientele is "/inspire, and click on the menu."
Please explain how it ever too skill in the past, even at launch, because you keep saying it and it just does not wash. Healing BF and mind wounds, our only real ability at launch, and the one you prefer us to have (mind you, I agree... I wanted Dejah to be a HEALER) did not take any actual skill. /startdance, wait, BF healed, /stopdance. You didn't have to do any flourishes then -- and you don't have to do any now. You could do basic, footloose, popular2 -- it didn't matter then, and it doesn't matter now.
So where, exactly, was the "skill" it took to heal BF? There's never been ANY skill to dancer in terms of what we give other players -- healing was just time dancing. Current buffs are the same. The old mind buffs were just nonstop flourishes, which any fool can do. The ONLY thing dancers have that takes any skill (and not much, at that) is the theater quests where you have to figure out which flourishes/dances to do in the right order to "please the crowd". Other than that, no system we have EVER had, or that has ever been suggested (to my knowledge) has ever required "skill."
The "skill" in being a dancer is the same as it has always been -- putting on a good performance. This is independent of, and has nothing to do with, buffing, healing, etc. None of that has ever been affected by how well you perform. Giving a good performance is entirely subjective, as with any art form (which is why some people love Picasso and others think his art is hideous). If you perform well, other people will notice it and appreciate it for what it is -- as an art form.
But no, it won't affect buffing ability... neither did it ever affect it in any prior buffing form, nor did it ever affect healing in any way at all. So I am not sure what you are referring to in terms of "skill."
C
GoGoGirl wrote:
Esharra wrote:
To clarify: I want to hear your reasons (give me talking points), not "because docs can buff themselves".
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 02:39 PM
Esharra, as much as i thought about "trying" to come up with the words, sentences and Reasons on trying togive our professiona more orless definition for the developers. Panthu got all those notes already from when she wasour DancerCorrespondant with our "talking points/requests/visions" already; something which i can feel that the developers have filed in the open plastic box beside their desks dispite her warnings that all this will come to roost.
Now i can understand if some of those notes are no longer viable to the profession since it's changed so much since then, but it is up to the developers to come to us and asked us "the paying customers" how is the gameplay and getting back some feedback, which is known as quality control.
Since i'm assuming you want "my" Reasons as talking points, i'll ask some following questions based on what i understand is consideredfor the current publish not for just the self buff issue but also on other things which i might not be aware of anymore:
- Are Entertainer Mission Terminals fixed and scaled according to the skill level of the entertainer? If not, how are starting entertainers going to cope with buying what they feel that they need that would enhance their game? Especially now when rumours of credit farmers are causing a hyperinflation within the game?
- Are Entertainers getting any rewards such as drops of items like from the Jabba Theme Park that is comparable to what the average player gets for their specific profession? Like a entertainer's hologram? a unique banner? a entertainer billboard?
- Can Entertainers craft anything that is useful to other players, that they might be able to sellto earn some form of income? Like a Music disk like those jukeboxes sold by NPC event promoters (which made me very mad when i heard about it)? a dancer's hologram that acts like achef food or a doctor's med and is used when the other players need to use it?
- What can we entertainers provide to reinforce the so called interdependancy? We buy clothes from tailors, weapons from weaponsmiths, armour from armoursmiths, buffs from chefs/bio-engineers, vehicles from artisans; but what can we provide that the developers haven't already takened away?
- What are the Developers going to do for us, considering that we're paying the same amount of skill points as any other elite professions butwe arethe least useful due to their nerfs. Will we be getting a revamp on the skill trees other than to wave pretty props around, get new dances which is for show onlyand blow smoke/special effectsout of our (it's your call on this one:smileytongue
- What are the Developers going to do for those of us who are full time ATK entertainers, to bring us into the GCW and give us a purpose other than to be tap dancing fodder? *Coughs* give us skills to be spies? Give us the ability to affect NPC factions? So we can undo the faction damage caused by those damn RED jabba thieves, valarian thieves in Mos Eisley before the developers made them non-agro?
- Why cant we self buff? Chefs and playerswith foods can self buff, Tera Kasa Artist can self buff, doctors can self buff, these self buffs are a advantage that others have that the entertainers are denied and is as i would call it unfair and unjust denial of service/rights/advantage to a certain group of paying customers. Yes, yes, "Yawn", SOE has the right to change the gameplay whenever and howeverthey want, but it disrupts a certain level of gameplay/interdependancy/quality/service/etc which all players want a guarenteed level of quality control to be happy with. Something that they have not been providing for a long time to the entertainers professionfor 2+ years. And as i see it, giving a self buff to us entertainers is up and coming as a reward to staying this long in a broken profession that the developers are half heartedly looking at.
Right now, idont think i will bother scratching the scab on a wound deeper, what is needed to be said is written on those notes and out of respect to Panthu and you, i wont say anymore until the developers pay more attention to those note which all so many ATK entertainers sacrificed their time on SWG only to leave the game with a broken dream.
To make clear again precisely what I am asking for in this thread, I'll quote from my previous posts:
"Just playing Devil's Advocate here (so don't ask for my head on a platter); but, please respond with reasons why we should not have to participate in interdependency with those within our own profession?"
"To clarify: I want to hear your reasons (give me talking points), not "because docs can buff themselves"."
This thread is about our responses to the self-buffing issue. Feel free to start a new thread for other issues you would like to discuss.
Esharra wrote:
GoGoGirl wrote:
Esharra wrote:
To clarify: I want to hear your reasons (give me talking points), not "because docs can buff themselves".
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 02:39 PM
Esharra, as much as i thought about "trying" to come up with the words, sentences and Reasons on trying togive our professiona more orless definition for the developers. Panthu got all those notes already from when she wasour DancerCorrespondant with our "talking points/requests/visions" already; something which i can feel that the developers have filed in the open plastic box beside their desks dispite her warnings that all this will come to roost.
Now i can understand if some of those notes are no longer viable to the profession since it's changed so much since then, but it is up to the developers to come to us and asked us "the paying customers" how is the gameplay and getting back some feedback, which is known as quality control.
Since i'm assuming you want "my" Reasons as talking points, i'll ask some following questions based on what i understand is consideredfor the current publish not for just the self buff issue but also on other things which i might not be aware of anymore:
- Are Entertainer Mission Terminals fixed and scaled according to the skill level of the entertainer? If not, how are starting entertainers going to cope with buying what they feel that they need that would enhance their game? Especially now when rumours of credit farmers are causing a hyperinflation within the game?
- Are Entertainers getting any rewards such as drops of items like from the Jabba Theme Park that is comparable to what the average player gets for their specific profession? Like a entertainer's hologram? a unique banner? a entertainer billboard?
- Can Entertainers craft anything that is useful to other players, that they might be able to sellto earn some form of income? Like a Music disk like those jukeboxes sold by NPC event promoters (which made me very mad when i heard about it)? a dancer's hologram that acts like achef food or a doctor's med and is used when the other players need to use it?
- What can we entertainers provide to reinforce the so called interdependancy? We buy clothes from tailors, weapons from weaponsmiths, armour from armoursmiths, buffs from chefs/bio-engineers, vehicles from artisans; but what can we provide that the developers haven't already takened away?
- What are the Developers going to do for us, considering that we're paying the same amount of skill points as any other elite professions butwe arethe least useful due to their nerfs. Will we be getting a revamp on the skill trees other than to wave pretty props around, get new dances which is for show onlyand blow smoke/special effectsout of our (it's your call on this one:smileytongue
- What are the Developers going to do for those of us who are full time ATK entertainers, to bring us into the GCW and give us a purpose other than to be tap dancing fodder? *Coughs* give us skills to be spies? Give us the ability to affect NPC factions? So we can undo the faction damage caused by those damn RED jabba thieves, valarian thieves in Mos Eisley before the developers made them non-agro?
- Why cant we self buff? Chefs and playerswith foods can self buff, Tera Kasa Artist can self buff, doctors can self buff, these self buffs are a advantage that others have that the entertainers are denied and is as i would call it unfair and unjust denial of service/rights/advantage to a certain group of paying customers. Yes, yes, "Yawn", SOE has the right to change the gameplay whenever and howeverthey want, but it disrupts a certain level of gameplay/interdependancy/quality/service/etc which all players want a guarenteed level of quality control to be happy with. Something that they have not been providing for a long time to the entertainers professionfor 2+ years. And as i see it, giving a self buff to us entertainers is up and coming as a reward to staying this long in a broken profession that the developers are half heartedly looking at.
Right now, idont think i will bother scratching the scab on a wound deeper, what is needed to be said is written on those notes and out of respect to Panthu and you, i wont say anymore until the developers pay more attention to those note which all so many ATK entertainers sacrificed their time on SWG only to leave the game with a broken dream.
To make clear again precisely what I am asking for in this thread, I'll quote from my previous posts:
"Just playing Devil's Advocate here (so don't ask for my head on a platter); but, please respond with reasons why we should not have to participate in interdependency with those within our own profession?"
"To clarify: I want to hear your reasons (give me talking points), not "because docs can buff themselves"."
This thread is about our responses to the self-buffing issue. Feel free to start a new thread for other issues you would like to discuss.
is there another proffession in the game that does not benefit from thier own skills? A weaponsmith (assuming he has the ability to fire a gun) can fire his own weapons. An armorsmith (assuming he has the certifications to equip it) can wear his own armor. Why in the world would we not be able to benefit from our own abilities? It's the most retarded thing I've ever heard of. If we're supposedly encouraging interdependance lets see what happens if you take away the crafters abilities to use the items they have crafted. Or if healers (to include jedi) were not alowed to use thier abilities to benefit themselves.
It would be an outrage. Jedi can now only apply cloaking to another player, docs can now only heal others and not themselves, crafters can only use items made by other crafters. It's absolutely ludicrist.
AND! If the idea is to discourage crafters from dabbling in the arts in order to get themselves the buffs without having to rely on "dedicated" entertainers then move the darn things out of the novice boxes and into something requiring a bit more FRIGGIN DEDICATION!
:: Edited...Because Esharra wants us to stay on topic ::
/in Star Wars Voice...
...Stay on topic...stay on topic...
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-02-2005 12:49 AM
On the take side? Well...
I require everything every other player does.
Ship parts (major expense). After all, we get a JTL profession free, just like everyone else in the game.
Armour, weapons, etc...but this is more "mixed profession."
Houses, nice things from tailors, decorative things.
I also need credits just for normal travel and such. The shuttle fee is the same, whether I am a lvl 80 fighter, or a level 1 entertainer.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-02-2005 12:57 AM