Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
akothas wrote:
Isleh wrote:
That much is obvious. Your only goal is personal self gain regardless of who gets hurt by it.
Yes. My goal is personal gain, however I do believe in charity. Just because one person or company succeeds and it causes another person or company to go out of business ... well its called good marketing. Giving the public or providing the public with a service or merchandise they want or require. If you wish to boycott Wal-Mart for taking over Target's business ... have at it.
Remember something called the Microsoft Antitrust lawsuit? Remember Oracle/PeopleSoft? There are Merger Enforcement & Guidelines. The business worldhas rules for fair competition and the prevention of monopolies.
I could have also duped credits,but I didn't
I could have power-up sliced weapons,but I didn't
I could have double sliced weapons and armor,but I didn't
I could have joined in a group of 20 with a bounty hunter to go out and gank some players jedi, butI didn't
I could have camped in front of the cloneing facility when I did PvP, but I didn'tI could steal kills from other's mobs, but I don't
Do you see a pattern here Akothas?
No, as a matter of fact I do notseea pattern. Number one and number three are exploiting bugs and are punishable offences. Buffbots use an in game macro system developed by the developers for player use. Number two is a actually a good method when leveling up, If you dont well then its just a matter of prefrence ( Number 2 is an exploit Has been stated as such by the Des and the smuggler correspondent and has been removed from the game. ). The fourth one is done all the time by both sides, I do it and have it done to me, its a "cry more n00b" issue if you whine about it. The fifth one.....makes no sense ( Clone camping, a form of harrassment ).The sixth point is basically the same point as the gank squad....its a "so what".
Funny, the "cry more n00b" issues that SOE felt the need to address. You can't attack other's mobs in JTL, the rules for hunting Jedi have changed.
Buffbots fall in where?
2. To expound upon the general guidelines, you may not harass other customers.
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. Harassment can take many forms, as it goes to the state-of-mind of the person or group of persons on the receiving end of the action. However, in order to account for those who are more sensitive than others, the CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not the reported issue would be considered harassment and act accordingly. Sexual/racial harassment or hatemongering of any kind will result in the immediate termination of all SOE accounts if sufficient and proper evidence is available and verified.
Macroing AFK does not fall under any of these catigories. It is an in game mechanic that was installed so people wouldnt have to use third party programs. It is a tatic that at this time is supported by the devs, and they even had a recent friday feature on macros recently.Back in the days of MUDs (milti-user dungeons) 3rd party programs were a must, as in you couldnt run the game without it. These programs had what they called a "script" language, kind of like QBasic, and people (like me) wrote huge scripts to play their characters AFK.
No. Macroing AFK does not fall under any of these categories. Macroing AFK does fall under the category stated above when it is done intentionally and in such a way as to have a negative effect on a large group playing the targeted profession.
On a fundamental level, it destroys the economics of the profession. The value of the service is determined by how much resources go into that service as well as the demand. The limiting resource for entertainer buffs is player time. Buffbots remove that limiting resource since the player is no longer involved. Instead, limiting resource has moved outside the game to a computer capable of running a dedicated buffbot. Thisis unfair since MANY players do not have the means to dedicate an entire computer to play a single game 23/7.
Do you get the concept that just because you can, it does not mean you should?
Do you get the concept that just because someone does something you dont like, dosent mean they are wrong?
Yes I do. However, I am not the one saying that other opinions don't matter
The fact that there are three (yes, three!) correspondentsthat use him on a regular basis only proves that those three correspondentsshould not be correspondents because they are promoting activity that is clearly against SOE policy. Those correspondents were most likely required to agree to enforce SOE policy and they have clearly violated that agreement if such an agreement exists.
Once again, the policy of the in game macro system is not aganist SOE policy. You truely need to get your facts straight ( I have my facts straight, see above ). Just two days ago there was a CSR in the cantina where my buff bot is located, I was there on my altgetting a buff from him. I yell at the begining of my script (every 7 minutes) stating the fact that I am a buffbot and require an invite for buffs. Did the CSR ban me? no. Did the CSR give me a warning? no. There is no agreement that correspondents will not use buffbots and there is no SOE policy aganist using the in game macro system. Those are the facts.
The facts are that buffbots are scheduled to be removed
Those correspondents are probably not to pleased with your boast. Which brings me back tothe first point I made. Your only goal is personal self gain regardless of who gets hurt by it. Those correspondents have probably told you in confidance not to reveal them. However, to futher your own agenda, you put at risk those correspondents. It would probably be very easy for SOE to track down who they are and remove them from their position.
This statement is a matter of opinion and that is fine. I dont see why anyone would want to hide the fact they use a buffbot other than they will get flamed by the ATK community. Other than ATK entertainers, the majority of the community dosent really care. ( Except for theplayers who purposely seek out ATK entertainers because they think buffbots and AFK entertainers have a negative effect on the game) When one specific correspondent (that uses my buffbot) stated he "thought entertainers were annoying" .... The wholedarnentertainer communitywent up in flames. I couldnt help but laugh. So what if some people think entertainers are annoying. If you think that is bad, you should hear what is said on the correspondent boards. You cannot please everyone being ATK, just as not everyone is going to be pleased with the fact I have a buffbot.
A large groupHAVE stated that it does have a negative effect on their gameplay. To continue in an action that is harful to others and flaunt that nothing can be done is Harrasement.
To imply that the correspondent's support your action and state that correspondent's make futher derisive comments about entertainers is noy only Harrasement, it is a violation of this policy since you have constantly pointed out that fact.
Using Threats of Retribution by CSR Friends - attempting to convince another player that they have no recourse in a disagreement because favoritism is shown to one of the parties by the SOE or LucasArts staff.
Message Edited by Isleh on 12-10-2004 04:49 PM
Isleh wrote:
akothas wrote:
Isleh wrote:
That much is obvious. Your only goal is personal self gain regardless of who gets hurt by it.
Yes. My goal is personal gain, however I do believe in charity. Just because one person or company succeeds and it causes another person or company to go out of business ... well its called good marketing. Giving the public or providing the public with a service or merchandise they want or require. If you wish to boycott Wal-Mart for taking over Target's business ... have at it.
Remember something called the Microsoft Antitrust lawsuit? Remember Oracle/PeopleSoft? There are Merger Enforcement & Guidelines. The business worldhas rules for fair competition and the prevention of monopolies.
The Macro guidelines have been set by the developers to use. They endorse it. As far as "fair competition",everyone is able to use the macro service provided by the developers. Its a game, and its literally that simple.
I could have also duped credits,but I didn't
I could have power-up sliced weapons,but I didn't
I could have double sliced weapons and armor,but I didn't
I could have joined in a group of 20 with a bounty hunter to go out and gank some players jedi, butI didn't
I could have camped in front of the cloneing facility when I did PvP, but I didn'tI could steal kills from other's mobs, but I don't
Do you see a pattern here Akothas?
No, as a matter of fact I do notseea pattern. Number one and number three are exploiting bugs and are punishable offences. Buffbots use an in game macro system developed by the developers for player use. Number two is a actually a good method when leveling up, If you dont well then its just a matter of prefrence ( Number 2 is an exploit Has been stated as such by the Des and the smuggler correspondent and has been removed from the game. ). Powering up a sliced weapon IS NOT an exploit. You can have a weapon sliced by a smuggler and then apply a powerup. It will wear the condition down on the item quickly, but it is not an exploit. Get your facts straight before you maken00b comments such as this.The fourth one is done all the time by both sides, I do it and have it done to me, its a "cry more n00b" issue if you whine about it. The fifth one.....makes no sense ( Clone camping, a form of harrassment ).I agree. Clone camping is harrassing a player for no reason whatsoever other than hate. Pretty much exactly the same as inviting a buffbot for the specific reason to hinder his ability to buff. Buffbots do neither of these to you, the only arguement I have heard is "they create spam" and "they take my profits" and "they are zombies". The sixth point is basically the same point as the gank squad....its a "so what".
Funny, the "cry more n00b" issues that SOE felt the need to address. You can't attack other's mobs in JTL, the rules for hunting Jedi have changed. You can attack any mob you desire in the land game. If its so great in JTL, jump ship and stay there. I personally like the competition. As for hunting jedi you are correct, the rules have changed. Its now much easier to pull a mission and kill a jedi player.
Buffbots fall in where?
2. To expound upon the general guidelines, you may not harass other customers.
Harassment is defined as specifically targeting another player or group of players to harm or inconvenience them. Harassment can take many forms, as it goes to the state-of-mind of the person or group of persons on the receiving end of the action. However, in order to account for those who are more sensitive than others, the CSR involved will make a determination as to whether or not the reported issue would be considered harassment and act accordingly. Sexual/racial harassment or hatemongering of any kind will result in the immediate termination of all SOE accounts if sufficient and proper evidence is available and verified.
Macroing is not a form of harassment. It is something you simply "dont like" and nothing more. No matter how you apply it, as long as my macro is not spaming the same comment within 30 seconds, is not using foul language, and is not doing something to hinder your gameplay (constantly inviting or offering trade) it is not considered harassment. Just because I use the intended developer resources avaliable to be more effecently than you does not mean I am harassing you. A buffbot that follows SOE harassment guidelines and uses only the in game macro system WILL NOT BE BANNED. Just report a buffbot, and you will get the standard reply.
Macroing AFK does not fall under any of these catigories. It is an in game mechanic that was installed so people wouldnt have to use third party programs. It is a tatic that at this time is supported by the devs, and they even had a recent friday feature on macros recently.Back in the days of MUDs (milti-user dungeons) 3rd party programs were a must, as in you couldnt run the game without it. These programs had what they called a "script" language, kind of like QBasic, and people (like me) wrote huge scripts to play their characters AFK.
No. Macroing AFK does not fall under any of these categories. Macroing AFK does fall under the category stated above when it is done intentionally and in such a way as to have a negative effect on a large group playing the targeted profession.
Just as a weaponsmith with good resources has a negative effect on a weaponsmith with bad resources, because the weaponsmith with bad resources cannot sell his goods because the market is flooded with good weapons.Itsintentional because its called competition.
On a fundamental level, it destroys the economics of the profession. The value of the service is determined by how much resources go into that service as well as the demand. The limiting resource for entertainer buffs is player time. Buffbots remove that limiting resource since the player is no longer involved. Instead, limiting resource has moved outside the game to a computer capable of running a dedicated buffbot. Thisis unfair since MANY players do not have the means to dedicate an entire computer to play a single game 23/7.
The limiting resources for any class is real life time and resources. I am sure there are people out there that have the ability to run 10 accounts at once, but I am not whining about them. If you can get a better real life job, and buy another computer to dedicate to SWG, get a broadband connection, and pay another $15 a month, then you can do what anyone else does. Oops, did I say the word whine?
Do you get the concept that just because you can, it does not mean you should?
Do you get the concept that just because someone does something you dont like, dosent mean they are wrong?
Yes I do. However, I am not the one saying that other opinions don't matter
I do argue my objective clearly and openly, but I did not say anyone's opinion "don't matter". I may not agree and they opinion may not matter to me personally, but everyone has a right to an opinion and most of us have the freedom to express it.
The fact that there are three (yes, three!) correspondentsthat use him on a regular basis only proves that those three correspondentsshould not be correspondents because they are promoting activity that is clearly against SOE policy. Those correspondents were most likely required to agree to enforce SOE policy and they have clearly violated that agreement if such an agreement exists.
Once again, the policy of the in game macro system is not aganist SOE policy. You truely need to get your facts straight ( I have my facts straight, see above ). You are a funny guy now. If your "facts were straight" then we wouldnt be arguing about the subject ....because there wouldnt be any buffbots ... but there are buffbots ..... well, you get my point. Just two days ago there was a CSR in the cantina where my buff bot is located, I was there on my altgetting a buff from him. I yell at the begining of my script (every 7 minutes) stating the fact that I am a buffbot and require an invite for buffs. Did the CSR ban me? no. Did the CSR give me a warning? no. There is no agreement that correspondents will not use buffbots and there is no SOE policy aganist using the in game macro system. Those are the facts.
The facts are that buffbots are scheduled to be removed
The fact is they have not been removed, the developers still endorse it, and I have seen no date specific as to when they will be removed. The developers have stated many times they were going to do many different thing. Some have come true. Some havent.
Those correspondents are probably not to pleased with your boast. Which brings me back tothe first point I made. Your only goal is personal self gain regardless of who gets hurt by it. Those correspondents have probably told you in confidance not to reveal them. However, to futher your own agenda, you put at risk those correspondents. It would probably be very easy for SOE to track down who they are and remove them from their position.
This statement is a matter of opinion and that is fine. I dont see why anyone would want to hide the fact they use a buffbot other than they will get flamed by the ATK community. Other than ATK entertainers, the majority of the community dosent really care. ( Except for theplayers who purposely seek out ATK entertainers because they think buffbots and AFK entertainers have a negative effect on the game) This is about the only statement in the entire post I believe we can both agree on. I never said bot heters didnt exist, but if you are upset that most of the people use buffbots, and alot of players have buffbots...well Iwould say these people are the minority. Even that itself is not a bad thing, but it is a factfor SOE to consider when it comes to making money.When one specific correspondent (that uses my buffbot) stated he "thought entertainers were annoying" .... The wholedarnentertainer communitywent up in flames. I couldnt help but laugh. So what if some people think entertainers are annoying. If you think that is bad, you should hear what is said on the correspondent boards. You cannot please everyone being ATK, just as not everyone is going to be pleased with the fact I have a buffbot.
A large groupHAVE stated that it does have a negative effect on their gameplay. To continue in an action that is harful to others and flaunt that nothing can be done is Harrasement.
I have personally not seen any negative effect on others gameplay. You are still able to do anything you desire within the games limits. The only thing I have seen negative about buffbots are right here on these fourms. If I was harrassing other players, I would have been banned by now, and at least warned. Instead, they make a macro friday feature. I suppose you blame SOE for harassing you for not makeing the gamethe exact way you want it as well.
To imply that the correspondent's support your action and state that correspondent's make futher derisive comments about entertainers is noy only Harrasement, it is a violation of this policy since you have constantly pointed out that fact.
Harrasment because some agree with me?? Could it be that every ATK entertainer that agrees with you is harassing me.... and my correspondent friends..... and the rest of the community that supports it??? j00 SH0ULD B BANN3D!!!!!........ and your statement is insane at best. I have consistantly pointed out the fact is is not harassment. The developers placed the macro system in the game for us to use until theysay otherwise.
Using Threats of Retribution by CSR Friends - attempting to convince another player that they have no recourse in a disagreement because favoritism is shown to one of the parties by the SOE or LucasArts staff.
Threats? The only threats I have heard are from specific ATK entertainers such as yourself in words like "report for harassment" and "dont macro or else" and whines like "they take our cashflow" and "they make spam" and "its unfair because I dont have an extra computer to do the same" If you are refering to my statement about the correspondent boards, the information that I have is that it is as just a heated arguement there as it is here, if not more. Most of your arguement is based off opinion and your personal objection, that is fine but they are not facts. Most of the community like them. Most of the community want them. Most of the community use them. The developers know we use macros. The developers made macros for us to use. The developers keep macros in the game for us to use.
Message Edited by Isleh on 12-10-2004 04:49 PM
Message Edited by akothas on 12-10-2004 10:10 PM
Ooh look at all the pretty colors! Lets see if we can get every color in the font color box represented now. 
Yes. My goal is personal gain,
Its a game, and its literally that simple.
I could steal kills from other's mobs
Sexual/racial harassment or hatemongering of any kind will result in the immediate termination of all SOE accounts if sufficient and proper evidence is available and verified.
Macroing AFK does fall under the category stated above
Itsintentional
On a fundamental level, it destroys the economics of the profession.
Do you get the concept that just because someone does something you dont like, dosent mean they are wrong?
Yes I am the one saying that other opinions don't matter
were most likely required to agree to enforce SOE policy and they have clearly violated that agreement if such an agreement exists.
You truely need to get your facts straight
buffbots and AFK entertainers have a negative effect on the game)
This is about the only statement in the entire post I believe we can both agree on.
When one specific correspondent (that uses my buffbot) stated he "thought entertainers were annoying" .... I couldnt help but laugh. you should hear what is said on the correspondent boards.
To continue in an action that is harful to others and flaunt that nothing can be done is Harrasement.
your statement is insane at best.
Using Threats of Retribution by CSR Friends - attempting to convince another player that they have no recourse in a disagreement because favoritism is shown to one of the parties by the SOE or LucasArts staff.
Most of your arguement is based off opinion and your personal objection,
Message Edited by Tralmek on 12-10-2004 11:21 PM
akothas wrote:
Isleh wrote:
That much is obvious. Your only goal is personal self gain regardless of just a matter of prefrence ( Number 2 is an exploit Has been stated as such by the Des and the smuggler correspondent and has been removed from the game. ). Powering up a sliced weapon IS NOT an exploit. You can have a weapon sliced by a smuggler and then apply a powerup. It will wear the condition down on the item quickly, but it is not an exploit. Get your facts straight before you maken00b comments such as this.
They are straight. This isfrom the Power-up Slicing Thread in the Smuggler forum. Who is making the n00b comments?
Smuggler_CaylinWrote
"I've given you the facts of the matter from the devs as they have personally given them to me when I have asked them. I have confirmed it with Taurin, who is the exploit developer, that it is an exploit.
I'm not going through a third man like a CSR, I'm going to the source. There is no mistake here or opinion. Just fact.
I'll trust that we can let this thread die. If not, I'll be moving to have it locked."
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=111137
akothas wrote:
I am sorry I cannot reply to everyone's post, I know some people love to argue a point asI do. You may well know most buffbots are owned by someone that has a primary combat profession, and most people that focus on combat do not visit the Dancer boards. If you hate me, well unfortunatly for you, I like a good debate, and I will pick the most constructive arguement I see and reply to it. I will keep my comments about bots in thisthread for now on (unless a noob needs help with a macro) to not start a flame war anywhere else on this board. Thanks all for your time.
Okay, I agree, The debate is getting stupid and heated and I am letting the passion of the argument affect my judgment.
*Turns the fire hose on this thread and decides to go cool off*
akothas wrote:
I have personally not seen any negative effect on others gameplay. You are still able to do anything you desire within the games limits. The only thing I have seen negative about buffbots are right here on these fourms. If I was harrassing other players, I would have been banned by now, and at least warned. Instead, they make a macro friday feature. I suppose you blame SOE for harassing you for not makeing the gamethe exact way you want it as well.
Buff-bots teach the players who use them to treat all entertainers as "things" that deserve no respect. This has led to such players abusing entertainers. If you do not recognize this as a negative effect then you need to open your eyes.
Throughout history, when anyone (whether a group or an individual) wished to destroy another person or group of people, they first degraded them, treating them as sub-human. As I see it, this is the greatest harm that buff-bots have done to members of the entertainer professions.
Tralmek wrote:
Ooh look at all the pretty colors! Lets see if we can get every color in the font color box represented now.
Yes. My goal is personal gain,
Its a game, and its literally that simple.
I could steal kills from other's mobs
Sexual/racial harassment or hatemongering of any kind will result in the immediate termination of all SOE accounts if sufficient and proper evidence is available and verified.
Macroing AFK does fall under the category stated above
Itsintentional
On a fundamental level, it destroys the economics of the profession.
Do you get the concept that just because someone does something you dont like, dosent mean they are wrong?
Yes I am the one saying that other opinions don't matter
were most likely required to agree to enforce SOE policy and they have clearly violated that agreement if such an agreement exists.
You truely need to get your facts straight
buffbots and AFK entertainers have a negative effect on the game)
This is about the only statement in the entire post I believe we can both agree on.
When one specific correspondent (that uses my buffbot) stated he "thought entertainers were annoying" .... I couldnt help but laugh. you should hear what is said on the correspondent boards.
To continue in an action that is harful to others and flaunt that nothing can be done is Harrasement.
your statement is insane at best.
Using Threats of Retribution by CSR Friends - attempting to convince another player that they have no recourse in a disagreement because favoritism is shown to one of the parties by the SOE or LucasArts staff.
Most of your arguement is based off opinion and your personal objection,
Message Edited by Tralmek on 12-10-2004 11:21 PM
Isleh wrote:
That much is obvious. Your only goal is personal self gain regardless of just a matter of prefrence ( Number 2 is an exploit Has been stated as such by the Des and the smuggler correspondent and has been removed from the game. ). Powering up a sliced weapon IS NOT an exploit. You can have a weapon sliced by a smuggler and then apply a powerup. It will wear the condition down on the item quickly, but it is not an exploit. Get your facts straight before you maken00b comments such as this.
They are straight. This isfrom the Power-up Slicing Thread in the Smuggler forum. Who is making the n00b comments?
Smuggler_CaylinWrote
"I've given you the facts of the matter from the devs as they have personally given them to me when I have asked them. I have confirmed it with Taurin, who is the exploit developer, that it is an exploit.
I'm not going through a third man like a CSR, I'm going to the source. There is no mistake here or opinion. Just fact.
I'll trust that we can let this thread die. If not, I'll be moving to have it locked."
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=111137
What they are refering to in this thread is that powering up a weapon while slicing to increase the overall damage of a weapon.There used to be a way to power up a weapon while slicing, in effect you would actually be able to use 2 powerups on 1 weapon (one while slicing and oneafter) and theslice would be based off the powered up weapon. From there, you could apply another powerup to have a "double powerup" effect.I do believe they have fixed this though.
Slicing a non powered up weapon and then applying a powerup is not an exploit. As long as you dont slice an already powered up weapon, you are not exploiting.
Maisland wrote:
akothas wrote:
I have personally not seen any negative effect on others gameplay. You are still able to do anything you desire within the games limits. The only thing I have seen negative about buffbots are right here on these fourms. If I was harrassing other players, I would have been banned by now, and at least warned. Instead, they make a macro friday feature. I suppose you blame SOE for harassing you for not makeing the gamethe exact way you want it as well.
Buff-bots teach the players who use them to treat all entertainers as "things" that deserve no respect. This has led to such players abusing entertainers. If you do not recognize this as a negative effect then you need to open your eyes.
Throughout history, when anyone (whether a group or an individual) wished to destroy another person or group of people, they first degraded them, treating them as sub-human. As I see it, this is the greatest harm that buff-bots have done to members of the entertainer professions.
Buffbots dont "teach" other people to disrespect other people. That like blaming the gun manufacturer for teaching people to be hate filled andkill other people. Most police and gun owners I know are not like this, and most criminals I know are.People who are rude to you are just that: rude. No matter what class you play you are going to associate with people like this simply because its their nature, and not a result of a specific in game mechanic.
You can place blame wherever you feel like it, but know by pointing your finger at buffbots is not going to solve your social problems in game. There are simply rude hate filled people out there, and as long as they pay their $15 a month and keep within the "community standatds" (which dosent you require you to be nice) you are just going to have to deal with people like this.
akothas wrote:
Isleh wrote:
That much is obvious. Your only goal is personal self gain regardless of just a matter of prefrence ( Number 2 is an exploit Has been stated as such by the Des and the smuggler correspondent and has been removed from the game. ). Powering up a sliced weapon IS NOT an exploit. You can have a weapon sliced by a smuggler and then apply a powerup. It will wear the condition down on the item quickly, but it is not an exploit. Get your facts straight before you maken00b comments such as this.
They are straight. This isfrom the Power-up Slicing Thread in the Smuggler forum. Who is making the n00b comments?
Smuggler_CaylinWrote
"I've given you the facts of the matter from the devs as they have personally given them to me when I have asked them. I have confirmed it with Taurin, who is the exploit developer, that it is an exploit.
I'm not going through a third man like a CSR, I'm going to the source. There is no mistake here or opinion. Just fact.
I'll trust that we can let this thread die. If not, I'll be moving to have it locked."
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=111137
What they are refering to in this thread is that powering up a weapon while slicing to increase the overall damage of a weapon.There used to be a way to power up a weapon while slicing, in effect you would actually be able to use 2 powerups on 1 weapon (one while slicing and oneafter) and theslice would be based off the powered up weapon. From there, you could apply another powerup to have a "double powerup" effect.I do believe they have fixed this though.
Slicing a non powered up weapon and then applying a powerup is not an exploit. As long as you dont slice an already powered up weapon, you are not exploiting.
Yes, the term is 'Power-up Slicing'. A weapon that had this exploit done to it is 'power-up sliced'. Different from a sliced weapon using a power-up.
akothas wrote:
Buffbots dont "teach" other people to disrespect other people. That like blaming the gun manufacturer for teaching people to be hate filled andkill other people. Most police and gun owners I know are not like this, and most criminals I know are.People who are rude to you are just that: rude. No matter what class you play you are going to associate with people like this simply because its their nature, and not a result of a specific in game mechanic.
You can place blame wherever you feel like it, but know by pointing your finger at buffbots is not going to solve your social problems in game. There are simply rude hate filled people out there, and as long as they pay their $15 a month and keep within the "community standatds" (which dosent you require you to be nice) you are just going to have to deal with people like this.
When someone "asks" for a buff by using /invite without saying a word to you, it is because they learned to do that by using buff-bots.
When someone becomes accustomed to /slapping, /spitting etc their local buff-bot and then does the same to a live entertainer, it is because buff-bots allow it (and they have no choice but to allow it because they aren't actually there to complain).
When someone tells an entertainer that their playstyle is invalid and that they should get a "real proffession" if they want to make any money, it is the fault of the buff-bot.
When someone says that all entertainers should just run buff-bots themselves, it is the fault of those already running buff-bots. (I have read your posts here. You are guilty of this yourself.)
When people talk about you as if you are not present, it is because they are accustomed to the fact that with buff-bots, there IS no one present.
When people don't know that they can be buffed without being grouped, it is because they learned how to get buffed by using buff-bots.
Yes, there are rude, hate-filled people out there, but having buff-bots available encourages this kind of behavior. As for your gun comparison, I would say that the macros themselves, and not the buff-bots, are what hold the greatest similarity to guns. I do not blame the macros for the buff-bots anymore than I blame the gun manufacturers for criminals who use guns.
P.S. I know people who are NOT NORMALLY RUDE, that treat entertainers like dirt because they learned to do so by using buff-bots... and yes, I CAN blame buff-bots for the increased disrespect that entertainers get. All I have to do is to compare my own instructions on how to treat entertainers with the experience that Lilo had recently.
My introduction to entertainers was provided by a RL friend (who talked me into playing SWG in the first place). My first character was a combat type. I was complertely unfamiliar with the entertainer professions. My friend took me to a cantina, showed me an entertainer who was performing and told me how to use them to get rid of my mind wounds and battle fatigue. My friend then told me how much I should tip the entertainer for this service and told me that entertainers damaged themselves in order to heal me.
As a contrast, take a look at Lilo's post on the Musician forum. This is REALLY a sad state of affairs!
Message Edited by Maisland on 12-11-2004 10:53 AM